Women, Weights and Muscle Bulk

I

icklemoley

Cathlete
I would like some info ladies, if you don't mind. As most of you are women, i thought it the ideal place! I'm a personal trainer and know the benefits of weight training however i can't tell you the number of times the women i've trained refuse to weight train or the amount of times i hear the following:

I'm afraid of getting too big

I used to work out with weights but found i got to big and bulky

I bulk up too fast

Etc.Etc.Etc...

Now, being a man, a personal trainer and someone who lifts weights i just don't understand. I train heavy and hard, and yet with 10-50% more testosterone than women i still have a hard time gaining mucsle mass and yet these women (the ones who complian) seem to gain mucle bulk (lean mass)just by looking at a weight! In all truth, are there any women out there that actually have put on large amounts of muscle mass (lean mass) through weight trianing and if so, how much. It seems this myth just won't die. The other day i was at home watching a cathe tape (damn those chorography steps!) and a couple of frined said "those women are soooo muscular" and "its not nice on a woman" Now personally i don't think cathe or anyone else for that matter is too muscualar and i would bet money that her arms are probably one 10 inches in total, but it did make me think. So sorry for the long ramble, but i would like the input please of the ladies on this forum. Thank you for your time.

:)
 
Can you convince them to do endurance training instead of strength training where they would get the benefits of weight training without the concern for bulking up? You know high reps,low weight type of lifting. I am a large boned woman and have always had muscular legs even when I was heavier. My thighs never look fat they always look muscular same with my calves. I don't tend to bulk up in the upper body area though I would like some definition. I don't think Cathe and her gang look bulky at all, my dh says it is because they do both strength and endurance type weight training so they don't look bulky. Plus even if initially they were to get bigger in the end they would tone up and get smaller yet look toned if they kept it up long enough.:)

I don't know if I have helped you or not but there are other health benefits for lifting that looking good, say for instance the lesser risk of osteoporisis which I can't spell. Not to mention the increase in your metabolism.

Hope that helps some
 
I have always been a large women. Size 14 or above. In my early 20's, I started weight lifting and fell in love with it. I was still large, and yes, some would say I was bulky, but my arms did not flap in the wind and my functional fitness was really good. Everyday life things were easier to deal with. The other good thing was even though I was size 14, I looked fairly good because that size 14 was compact.

Fast forward 20 years later and still lifting weights. Still a lot of muscle mass, but I finally have done something about the weight. After dropping 40 pounds, all the bulky muscles have leaned out and I really like the look. At 140 and 5-4 I am in a size 6-8 and many folks cannot believe I am that heavy.

Maybe the women have too much fat on top of the muscles and it makes them look bulky. I don't know, but I sure would rather have leaness at my age then the flapping in the wind I see so much of!! Give me bulk anyday!!
 
This is just my openion...

I think that when women say they "bulk up", they mean that they just gain size (since most women want to get smaller in size. Men on the other hand usually want to get bigger in size (with muscle). That's why to men "bulking" means gaining big muscles. To women "buling" means gainng muscle tht couses them to gain ANY size.
Just a thought
 
Unfortunatley I think alot of women still want the look of skinny...not in shape and fit. I used to be one of those women as well. I used to hardly lift and if I did I don't think you could actually call it lifting usint 3 and 5lb. dumbells. I was the cardio queen as well. I now lift at least three days a week, heavy and am so much smaller then I have ever been. I am toned and firm and wear a size 4. I wore a size 8 when doing all that cardio.

I think the best way to get your clients to begin to train heavy would be to show them some real life examples of women who do train heavy and still look very feminine (maybe people from your gym). I have learned through trial and error that you need both heavy weight training , cardio and a good diet to get that ideal body. My ideal body however consists of muscle not skin and bones. Good Luck
 
I think it helps to show people pictures of fitness women who have built a fair bit of muscle, and look great for it. For many people (men and women), when they think of women using weights, it still conjures up images of huge muscley women. This is the image that we need to change, in my opinion.

Sharon.
 
I gain muscle and fat easily, I have lifted heavy since a teen, and I am bigger muscled than I want to be, so I've changed to lifting lower weight-higher reps (since getting into Cathe's strength training). Some of the fitness competitors, including Susie Curry, the reigning fitness champ, train high reps-low weight to keep from getting even more muscular--and some of them don't like being as big as they are, but are because that's what's winning contests. Several non-active women I know think fitness competitors, fitness models, and Cathe and her crew are "ugly"--too muscular.

Some women don't want to "look" muscular--be able to see their muscles--and have a very different definition than a man wanting to be muscular. I don't mind my muscular arms--and I want them smaller, so for a more conformist-thinking woman, feeling/seeing her muscles is probably very ugly in her mind. Yes, women can get bigger muscularly than they want or think is attractive, and I have yet to come up with a convincing reason for my non-active friends to lose their fear of weightlifting. I look forward to hearing other's suggestions on this.
 
I guess it might depend on what some women view as the definition of "bulk". For some women it simply means an increase in measurements, for others it means actually seeing muscles regardless of whether it comes along with an actual decrease in their measurements. For me, I love defintion and if that involves a possible increase in measurements due to muscle hypertrophy so be it, but I think my body fat has far more to do with the "bulk" than the heavy lifting. Now if somebody would just invent a cheese pizza with the nutritional profile of water I'd be in business!

:) Stacy
 
LOL Stacy!! I am all for that cheese pizza!!!:)

I consider myself "bulky". I think I put on a great deal of mass when I started lifting, but I don't think I shed too much fat, so therefore I end up looking "bulky". My body fat still sits at 23% so all that massive muscle doesn't show as much as it could I guess. I could not tell you a poundage amount as far as lean mass that I gained. Didn't track it.

I will tell you however that I am of the family of chicks that thinks you can never have too much muscle. I am always seeking to build. Always trying to stay "anabolic". I feel that women who say they got "bulky" actually just gained some muscle and lost little to no fat and so therefore they got bigger. BUT, they probably did not continue the lifestyle long enough to experience the benefit of the extra calories all their added muscle was burning. I am leaner now than when I started lifting without really changing my diet simply because I added muscle. That is the real benefit of weight training!
I also don't believe much in endurance work. My motto is "go heavy or go home".....:):)

Janice
 
Janice,

I LOVE that motto!!!



I concur with the other ladies that, outside of the circle of fit women, non-fit/exercising women do NOT want to be muscular or defined. They just want to be thin, weigh a certain # on the scale or fit into a certain size. It's not about how much weight one can lift or squat.

A friend once said to me with a look of horror on her face "Your legs are SO MUSCULAR!!!!" I surmised she didn't like my muscles.;-)

I am currently experiencing that "bulking" because I am gaining muscle more quickly than shedding fat. My legs are looking cellulite-y - I guess because the fat is being pushed out by the muscles.

If I were NOT a part of the "educated crowd" I would have probably stopped lifting immediately and claimed that weights made me "bulky".
 
Well, I weight 124, am at a healthy weight for my height and my muscles bulk enough that I have trouble finding shirts that will fit my arms and pants that will fit my thighs. Regardless of the comment "women don't bulk", to me, that's bulking up.

I don't even have to do formal weight lifting to do it. I did whitewater kayaking/canoeing for 10 years and, even though I'm right handed, 2 years after I stopped, my left bicep was still over an inch larger than my right and my back and shoulder muscles were noticeably larger on one side. My back was a good 4 inches wider across than it had been before I started.

I like muscle definition, I like being able to match and exceed weights with Cathe, but I don't like having muscles so bulky that I have trouble finding clothes to fit!

Sueter
 
>A friend once said to me with a look of horror on her face
>"Your legs are SO MUSCULAR!!!!" I surmised she didn't like my
>muscles.;-)
>

Our former secretary once noticed that my shoulders were big in a long-sleeved top and said "you're wearing shoulder pads, aren't you?" I said no, I wasn't, and just for a second, she had a look of total disgust on her face! She was about 50 pounds overweight with no visible muscle at all, so our esthetics were obviously quite different.

I agree with another poster who said that women strive to take up as little space as possible, while men like to take up as much space as possible.

I think that a lot of women who aren't "into" fitness and who don't currently work out with weights don't know what it will do to them. If they see the cover of Oxygen magazine (which a checkout clerk once said to me was 'ugly'...I actually agreed with that one, since the cover shot was a very unflattering photo that made the model's 8 pack look almost intestines!) they will be afraid that they'll look like that. They'd much rather look like Debra Messing (who was on a cover of another fitness magazine I bought at the same time, and who the checkout clerk--"average American female" said looked great)but I think she's too skinny and boney!

I think the Firm instructors show an image of women who workk with weights but who are not necessarily "too muscular" for the average woman. Also, if you stress that cardio activity can help you lose weight, but you'll always have the same shape, but weight training can actually change the shape of your body, then it might be more palitable to those who don't want to "bulk."

You've got to use any tactics you can to get them started, then they'll begin to like the feel of strength and the look of toned muscles.
 
Many women tend to gain fat on their limbs and lower abdomen. They gain fat in their thighs and upper arms (with age). Most men, on the other hand, gain fat in the middle of their bodies while their limbs stay thin, almost skinny (the chicken leg phenomenon). Of course there are exceptions, but this is the general trend.

Because of this, when a woman gains muscle on her arms and legs, she gets bigger and often doesn't like it. I know that I personally don't get definition on my arms and legs unless my bodyfat is so low that I'm at semi-starvation levels. I don't like to do this and can't maintain it in any case. There are lots of women like me. For us, the compromise is lighter weights and higher reps. We simply can't get enough body fat off our legs and arms so that muscle definition shows without extreme dieting. When we have a combination of fat and muscle on our limbs, we look big and lumbering.

I don't compare myself to Cathe and her crew. My body type is nothing like Cathe's and never will be, no matter how many of her workouts I do. Also her crew is much younger than I am.

Jane
 
I just posted on mind under muscle that I saw one of the Firm "master" instructors on Cheers last night. The woman was fully clothed. SHE LOOKED INCREDIBLE in what she had on. Very feminine. But I know under her clothes she has muscle. Not what I would call bulky.

Don't these women know that muscle takes up less room than fat & if they lose body fat, the bulk will go away? I'm there right now. I know I'm gaining muscle because my arms are getting bigger. But I'm also losing body fat because my clothes are getting more loose.

I have met Cathe is person. She is a perfectly proportioned fitness diva! I would kill to have her body!
 
Also, while fat and muscle both take up room, fat is a shapless blob of stuff, while muscle adds an attractive roundness.
 
Thanks for the feed back ladies. I think that it is possible for women to gain muscle, though I do still believe that it is not as easy as it is for men. However saying that, I recently saw the Miss Fitness Olympia and was “shocked” to say the least. These women are now going to the extremes. I don’t think they have really large muscles but are so lean that they appear bigger than they actually are. I don’t think, myself, that this level of bodyfat is attractive. I once heard Monica Brant say that in order for her to win the Fitness Olympia she had to be 5% body fat and that it was not an attractive look for her. While I think that Debra (will and grace fame) is very attractive, she is far too thin. I like muscle on Women, think, Rachel Mclish, Karen Voight, Gin Miller etc…thin, no shape women (Ally McBeal) do nothing for me.
 
I recently saw the Miss Fitness Olympia and was “shocked” to say the
>least. These women are now going to the extremes. I don’t
>think they have really large muscles but are so lean that they
>appear bigger than they actually are. I don’t think, myself,
>that this level of bodyfat is attractive. I once heard Monica
>Brant say that in order for her to win the Fitness Olympia she
>had to be 5% body fat and that it was not an attractive look
>for her. While I think that Debra (will and grace fame) is
>very attractive, she is far too thin. I like muscle on Women,
>think, Rachel Mclish, Karen Voight, Gin Miller etc…thin, no
>shape women (Ally McBeal) do nothing for me.

Women's bodybuilding and related contests have really changed over the years. If you go back to the early to mid 80's, there were lots of muscular yet feminine women like Rachel McLish, or, my favorite, Gladys Portuguese. Then the trend started going towards more muscle and less body fat (I think the 80's bodybuilders were around 12% bodyfat on season). If you were shocked by Miss Fitness Olympia, you'd faint at the site of the MS Olympia contestants! I saw the end of one contest on ESPN once, and the top finishers looked like men in bathingsuits. If those women don't take steroids, I'll eat my hat.

Fitness contests started as a reaction to the more muscular look that started to become what would win the Ms Olympia contests. Now, the Fitness contests seem to be getting more muscular with lower body fat, and a third group has just recently developed, the "figure" contests.

See if you can pick up Gladys Portuguese's weight trainig book, or one by Rachel McLish. I think they show weight trained physiques that most women wouldn't find to be too extreme.


After reading this thread, I started thinking about Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2. Didn't women want to look like her after they saw the movie? Or is my perception skewed by fitness magazines (which is where I maybe saw this info).
 
How funny that you should mention Linda Hamilton's arms! I was just thinking of them this a.m. when I was trying to remember when my mentality switched from "must be thin" to "must be healthy with Linda Hamilton arms!" Everyone I knew coveted those arms. I still do!
 
Wow, I've enjoyed this thread!! You see, I loe muscle on a woman. Not huge amounts. I definately don't like the steroid look, but being an amature natural bodybuilder, I've found out 2 things. Women are either pro muscle or anti muscle. My mother thinks I'm crazy to lift and to exercise at all for that matter. When I fisrt started in earnest at bodybuilding I was thin and scrawny. After my first and last contest, I started really trying to put on the muscle. It took me a full yesr to gain 5lbs of lean mass. To me this was a long time. I'm happy where I am now and just want to maintain what I've got. Although a little fat loss would be great!! Also, there's no way around it, in order to gain muscle you will gain fat. And in order to lose fat, you will lose a little muscle. It's a paradox.
So here I am with the muscle I want, but also the extra fat that I don't. It also doesn't help that my thyroid is so bad that my doctor said that if it wasn't for all the exercising I do, I'd be obese. I can't seem to lose any fat ever since my thyroid went. Ok, so I'm a little bulky now. That's the fat over the muscle making me look that way. So I'm guessing that these women aren't changing their dietary habits and when they do gain a little lean mass, they also gain a little fat. Therefore, they'd rather stay a skinny/fat. You know, thin, but with a higher percentage of bodyfat. Just my opinion. I said refer them to a sports nutritionist in conjuction with your weightlifting program for them.
Ok, I'm done rambling now:7 !
Aimee
 
I myself, when starting a new rotation, tend to bulk the first three or so weeks (usually I do a 4-6 week rotation) but after that I tend to really lean out. I enjoy the 'bulk' (although sometimes I find myself bummed because I'm not as leaned out as I would like to be) and I know that I am growing muscle... weight training helped me drop 30 lbs. in 2001 (and when I was younger it helped me to gain and maintain a more healthy weight when I was way too thin).

Having said that, I have a friend who gets upset when lifting (ex: power hour with light weights - and I mean light) and she perceives any increase in size ("bulk") and will stop working out. NO amount of encouragement to hang in there 6 weeks to see if it leans out works - period.

I don't know how you get past the bulking issue other than to encourage them to try it your way for up to 8 weeks before dropping weights totally. Otherwise, a move to a higher rep/lighter weight workout might work.
 
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