Thoughts on ab work

[LauraMax]

In 1997 or 1998 I took an ab class (an educational class, not an exercise class) where they taught that any ab exercise that includes leg movement is working the hip flexors as the primary muscle group & the abs as a secondary muscle group. Another thing they taught was that, contrary to what many people think, there is no such thing as "upper" & "lower" abs. The abs are two muscles running vertically along the torso.

So, getting to my point, I tried Ab Ripper X on Sunday & barely felt it in my abs but had serious DOMS in my hip flexors. However, some of Cathe's exercises that in CM that involve leg movement like the rocket shoots I don't feel in my hip flexors at all--I guess b/c the legs are stationary, it's the abs doing all the lifting. I REALLY feel the long lever exchanges in my abs, but I feel the V-sits more in my hip flexors.

I think some of these exercises are what makes ab work so difficult, ineffective & confusing. It seems to me that any truly effective ab exercise should involve as little leg movement as possible so that the abs are the primary muscle group worked, instead of wasting time on exercises where they're the secondary muscle group.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Opinions?

 

[Sekcy_Gymnast]

Hi Laura,
Just a thought but are you squeezing your abs when you do the ab work you said you felt more in your hip flexors? Maybe thats the problem. I might be wrong but thats just what I thought when I read. Good Luck!

~Adri;-)
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[sophiem]

Yes, I agree it's confusing. My hip flexors are always sore after Ab Ripper X also, so when I do it I try to be conscious of my abs and not the struggle in my hip flexors. Normally, my abs are also sore, so I figure I'm just getting a bonus with the flexor portion. I don't do Ab Ripper X that often for that reason though, I have many more Cathe core options that I prefer that work just my abs and are more fun.

 

[nspaulding3]

I have been confused on what to do for ab work lately too. I find that workouts that seem like they should be more challenging don't make me sore the next day. I haven't figured out if my form is not as good as it should be or if I just need to do more, or add weight etc.

For example Core Max 3 doesn't make me sore at all. I feel like I am really concentrating on form throughout this one and I'm still not feeling it the next day. On the other hand when I did Core Max 2 followed by All Step abs I was REALLY sore (it hurt to cough for the next several days). I just can't figure this out. Could it be just because the exercises are so different and maybe I have better form on some exercises than others?

 

[dhcsim]

I have been doing what I call "frestyle abs" for a while now. I do pulleys, crunches and then obliques. I do 40reps/5 sets of each. I have been noticing that when I do the pulleys I feel it mostly in the hip flexor and then it moves to the lower abs. I am making sure my shoulders are up (kind of propped on my blades)and my back is flat the entire time.

 

[allwildgirl]

There are certain exercises I just don't do because I only feel it in my hip flexors and not my abs. One of them is the jackknife crunches in MM. I always sub some other oblique exercise.

When you think about it, when you're working your biceps, you're concentrating on just that part of your arm and you are, in fact, trying NOT to involve any muscles. Same with any other body part, so why should abs be different?

 

[LauraMax]

That's exactly it Shelley. That's why all these exercises like V-sits & roman chairs annoy me--they just don't focus on abs. There were also some exercises in Ab Ripper X that have you swinging from side to side & again, to your point, all muscles should be worked in a slow & controlled manner without any momentum from other body parts.

It all goes back to what I think was the most important lesson I learned in this class--abs should be worked like any other muscle.

I also have a "freestyle" ab workout that I do at the gym, but it would be really nice if I had a worthwhile core routine for home as well (besides CM of course). Ab Hits is OK but doesn't really do it for me. I had high hopes for Ab Ripper but I guess it's yet another DVD that'll sit on my shelf collecting dust.x(

 

[Poochy]

From my experience .. when you do ab exercises that involve leg movements you are engaging the hip flexors .. but you are also working your abdomen. If you are getting sore in the hip flexors and not your abdomen then I would say those exercises are not effecient for primarily working abs.

But by involving the legs in certain movements .. like seated side leg crunches . . or bycycle crunches ..planks .. it allows you to get into the smaller fibers of the abdomen better than your average exercises using the abdomen only.

The abs do consist of one long verticle rectus abdomis (that runs continuously from below your chest to below your belly button - this is the six pack muscle). . I think some commonly refer the rectus abdominal area to "upper" and "lower" b/c most people get a better visual of the movement and contraction required to work the muscle. You also have the external and internal obliques that run diagonly down your sides (twisting movements work this group).. and the smaller transverse abdominus that runs underneatht the rectus abdominus.

and you are correct .. you should work your abs like any other muscle .. gotta have that recovery time .. most people do not allow the days rest in between ab workouts ..

I think the best strategy to ab work .. is to mix it up .. for example - one day do your old school crunches and twists .. then rest day/no ab work .. then your next day do planks work for your abs .. then rest day/no ab work .. next day do yoga and pilate based exercises ..etc .. am I making sense .. ?? LOL .. mix it up and do what seems to have the best effect for your body .. get your rest in between and vary the workouts ...

I think visualization and isolation and control over the movement is the primary key to getting a more effecient ab workout .. that and be careful not to overwork the muscle ..

.. oh and don't forget .. there are so many exercises that combine core work into other muscle group exercises

.. for every muscle contraction there is another muscle retracting. example: when you work your biceps your triceps actually lengthen .. ie: quads .. and hamstrings. To have strong biceps you must have strong triceps .. to have strong quads you have to have strong hamstrings ... so it is also important to strengthen your back muscles in order to have truely strong abs!

hope this helps ...

{{ hope I didn't ramble to long .. LOL)

 

[mspina]

>Hi Laura,
> Just a thought but are you squeezing your abs when you do the
>ab work you said you felt more in your hip flexors? Maybe
>thats the problem. I might be wrong but thats just what I
>thought when I read. Good Luck!
>

I have the exact same thought. The hip flexors will be sore for some of the moves in ARX if you are using your hip flexors rather than your core to execute the moves - which is the tendency if your core isn't used to or strong enough yet for this type of work. If you are truly working your *core* for things like v-ups, in and outs, scissors, heel ups, mason twists, etc., your hip flexors won't be getting a workout, and your core will be getting one HELL of a workout.

It's a serious mental game here, to concentrate on your core, and not cheating with your legs.

m.

 

[mspina]

>That's exactly it Shelley. That's why all these exercises
>like V-sits & roman chairs annoy me--they just don't focus on
>abs. There were also some exercises in Ab Ripper X that have
>you swinging from side to side & again, to your point, all
>muscles should be worked in a slow & controlled manner without
>any momentum from other body parts.
>

Hmmmm - there should be no fast swinging going on here. What move are you talking about in particular? If there is momentum being used, that's cheating.

I also just don't fundamentally agree about v-sits and roman chairs - when executed properly, these are both core exercises, and nothing but. However, it certainly is easier to "cheat" by using momentum or your leg strength rather than core strength, than say, for traditional crunches, but they work the core much more deeply than any "traditional" ab work (once you get how to do them without cheating, which can be a challenge as it is very different). There is a learning curve here, that's all.

m.

 

[sunnyside]

I've also read that if you feel it more in your hip flexors, your abs are not as strong as you think. Of couse they are strong enough to do a gazillion crunches, but that's not going to make them strong for multi-muscle groups working together...real life movements. Your body has to learn to work all the groups together to get stronger...together.
It's the same with biceps. You can lift super-doper heavy doing a bicep curl, but how many pull ups can you do? Your biceps aren't as strong as you think if you can't do one pull-up. That's why isolation moves might not be as productive as compound/multi joint moves. They say that some gymnasts that rarely do biceps curls can out lift a regular heavy lifter. And we all know how strong gymnasts abs are. And it's mostly from just the gymnastic moves they do, not isolated crunches.

Anyways, "The New Rules of Lifting book." is a great book to read. It explains stuff like this pretty well.

 

[squirrelly]

Laura,

I thought my core was really strong until I started doing Ab Ripper and realized that my abs were strong, but core needed a lot of improvement. At first, I felt the exercises in my hip flexors, but as I have progressed, my core is able to handle the workload not my legs. Core Synergistics helped me understand this as well.

I think that the more you do these types of exercises, the more you will work your core/abs and not your hip flexors.

 

[randidiane]

My abs are always sore when i do Core Max because i do each segment twice for example i did #3 twice today Over all core max has given me great definition in my abs
Randi

 

[kathryn]

> I tried Ab Ripper X on Sunday &
>barely felt it in my abs but had serious DOMS in my hip
>flexors. However, some of Cathe's exercises that in CM that
>involve leg movement like the rocket shoots I don't feel in my
>hip flexors at all--I guess b/c the legs are stationary, it's
>the abs doing all the lifting.

The first three (or the first two and the fourth, I don't remember) exercises in Ab Ripper X do work the hip flexor a lot, especially at first, but that's not a bad thing, IMO, because, as Tony says, you need to work your hip flexors: there are very few moves in real life that just use the abs, and it's good to work the two together to train them to work as they should. The abs work mostly as stabilizers in real life, rarely are you called upon to do any move resembling a crunch.

After you do the workout a few times, you'll notice that you don't feel it as much in the hip flexors.

And a lot of pilates moves for the core work the hip flexors as well, like roll-ups.

 

[kathryn]

> There were also some exercises in Ab Ripper X that have
>you swinging from side to side & again, to your point, all
>muscles should be worked in a slow & controlled manner without
>any momentum from other body parts.

Are you talking about the rotations at the end? I think what they are working is the 'stopping' point more than the initiation of movement, so a fast pace isn't necessarily detrimental to that purpose.


>I also have a "freestyle" ab workout that I do at the gym, but
>it would be really nice if I had a worthwhile core routine for
>home as well (besides CM of course).
Have you tried P90X "Core Synergistics"? It's an excellent core workout.

 

[Rogue]

>
>After you do the workout a few times, you'll notice that you
>don't feel it as much in the hip flexors.
>
>
I agree with this comment about Ab Ripper X. I have been doing Coremax for over a year. A few months ago I got Ab Ripper X and boy did I notice a change in my Abs after about a month of doing it once a week. I was previously doing 2 coremax per week and 1 Ab hit per week - I subbed the Ab Ripper X for one of the coremax sessions.

 

[LauraMax]

Yes, but with traditional weight training you target each body part separately. My hip flexors get plenty of work with my leg workout. When I want to work core, I want to work only core. And I've actually stopped doing pilates, other than MTV mix--it's gotten kind of boring for me & I didn't feel like I was getting anything out of it at all. In fact, I found my weighted ab exercises were getting more difficult b/c I'd replaced one of the weighted routines w/pilates, & I think I was losing strength.

Part of my problem is that I am not one of the lucky ones who has genetically good abs. Actually the opposite--I work really really hard on abs b/c getting a 6 pack is almost impossible for me. So I want serious, hardcore ab work that focuses on abs as the primary muscle group. I don't want to waste my time with exercises that work abs as the secondary muscle group.