The 200+ Club.....Really?

[112toGuru]

Okay, as a new convert to running, just completing 5 weeks of this new habit, I've come to the conclusion, this is a Hard activity to start. It took a full month to get at least comfortable with a program, getting over the initial aches and pains, etc. For the first time, like ever, I feel like I may be able to do this, not just for a month, but long enough to do a race, maybe more.

So, in that time I realized that, as I get better, my efficiency improves, I can do more and more. What I noticed is there are a lot of new runners who are 200+ pounds. This is admirable, I can't imagine how hard that would be, especially if the person was not a runner before or doing any regular exercise program.

Is running really the exercise someone who's really overweight, like 50 pounds or more, wants to start with? Is this Biggest Loser mentality, and as that person proceeds, wouldn't efficiency slow the results?

Have to ask, it just seems like there are a lot of heavy people out there running for weight loss, it seems like other kinds of exercise would be more beneficial, less risky, more enjoyable, for someone who's really heavy, at least until they have lost some weight.

Personal trainers out there, weigh in on this please (no pun intended)

 

[jdimascio]

First of all, congrats on your new habit. It's funny, I have a lot of people take my boot camp class for the first time and tell me they only run. So they are not used to this sort of training and they walk away felling like they are out of shape...when they assumed that they were in great shape because they run a lot. Basically anything is going to be hard if it's something new and variety is key.

As far as overweight runners, they do need to be careful of injuries...problems with hips, knees, etc. So walking is probably the best start and as the weight sheds move to running, which will be easier when you drop weight as well. So, I do think low impact exercise to start is better and then gradually add. I have seen all shapes and sizes of runners at races...but I think the best designed exercise program needs to have more than just running. And form is key, most people don't have proper form which in addition will cause injury, or muscular imbalance...and can explain why runners are all built differently.

This is just my opinion, of course, and based on my experience as a runner/trainer....but I have been a runner all my life.

 

[pjlippert]

And form is key, most people don't have proper form which in addition will cause injury, or muscular imbalance...and can explain why runners are all built differently.

Amen to the form issue!! My PT and I both believe that a big part of my hip/knee issues & injury likely came from running for years with a really awkward and uneven gaite! Well that and doing high-impact workouts for 25+ years.

Form is EVERYTHING!

pAM

 

[112toGuru]

Thanks Jenn, I guess too it depends on how active the individual is to begin with and overall level of health. Even after exercising for some time I was still a pretty slow walker, even some heavy people may walk a lot already, it just seems lately I've noticed a lot of heavier beginner runners, maybe it's just I didn't notice before. Just wondered how a trainer would look at it.

True Pam, form is important, from an expert I gathered that if the running is easier you're probably doing more right than wrong, hope that's true! For years and years I just felt my knee/knees were unreliable due to multiple injuries/surgeries & lack of proper rehab or sufficient exercise. I still have doubts at times but those are fading fast. Maybe that is the ultimate draw running has regardless of weight, you start to forget those things that held you up before, overcoming those obstacles. Hope you are on the mend!

 

[RapidBreath]

No

I started at 210, I had exhuasted what hiking could do for me, I had stopped seeing any improvement, I started a 5k program and even though I could barely do it for 15 seconds to begin with, I perserved and now at 185 lbs I can do a 12 min. mile no problem and a 10 min. mile if I push it. Besides, all you cathletes who buy a 40 pound vest could do it the twinkies way, just stuff it under your skin. That said, it is much easier to run without the extra pounds but sometimes the running is what gets us there. Walking might be more enjoyable but its not going to send my heart rate into interval territory. Swimming doesn't help at all, it encourages the maintenance of fat because you are trying to maintain your internal body temperature, ever seen a skinny whale? I haven't. While I am a big proponent of yoga, keep in mind that doing a downward facing dog while bench pressing 258 pounds (my top weight.) is excruciatingly difficult and yet I still recommend it to my friends who would like to lose weight. Just because its hard doesn't mean its not worth it.

 

[112toGuru]

I really wondered what a PT would say, I think step is probably the activity I would go with or maybe hi/lo? there are so many benefits to step & it is less repetitive, it can be as hard as you want it to be, by altering the step height. I found it very effective for slimming especially hips & thighs where a lot of women carry weight. It was not so much though how hard it is, any activity you are not accustomed to doing is going to be challenging. I still don't think heart rate in interval territory meaning anaerobic zone is the best for weight loss, just my opinion.

I'm a stepper at heart though I think (therefore biased, thank you very much Cathe ) I've taken to watching Cathe steps on the TM while I get the run in, lol. I was interested in what trainers advise, thanks for the insight Alisha.



*forgot to add RB, you're run times are enviable!

 

[MidgetDogg]

I think it's fine if they are starting out when they're heavy as long as they listen to their bodies and don't overdo it - just like the rest of us. It's really the fastest way I've found to drop weight, so if they eat well, they'll drop those pounds pretty quickly.

 

[MidgetDogg]

I started at 210, I had exhuasted what hiking could do for me, I had stopped seeing any improvement, I started a 5k program and even though I could barely do it for 15 seconds to begin with, I perserved and now at 185 lbs I can do a 12 min. mile no problem and a 10 min. mile if I push it. Besides, all you cathletes who buy a 40 pound vest could do it the twinkies way, just stuff it under your skin. That said, it is much easier to run without the extra pounds but sometimes the running is what gets us there. Walking might be more enjoyable but its not going to send my heart rate into interval territory. Swimming doesn't help at all, it encourages the maintenance of fat because you are trying to maintain your internal body temperature, ever seen a skinny whale? I haven't. While I am a big proponent of yoga, keep in mind that doing a downward facing dog while bench pressing 258 pounds (my top weight.) is excruciatingly difficult and yet I still recommend it to my friends who would like to lose weight. Just because its hard doesn't mean its not worth it.

I can't imagine running with a weighted vest on. I have a 20# vest that I use for STS Squat Rack and I can't wait to get that sucker off at the end of the workout. It really tires my neck out.

I know exactly what you mean about the walking not getting your HR up. I started out walking on the treadmill, and I was only 118 lbs. After a couple weeks where I'd have the incline all the way to max, I realized I'd have to start running to get my HR up and that's how I started running.

Now I'm 102 lbs (5'0") and run a lot. But it doesn't matter that I don't have extra weight on me - I've still got knee issues and a tender plantar fascia that I'm babying a bit during racing season. If you pay attention to what your body is telling you, you will be fine. I've backed off on running to twice a week and am doing Insanity the other days. I'm wearing a night splint for my plantar fascia so it doesn't become a chronic issue.

Nice job, Rapidbreath, on the weight loss and the time improvement. It's only going to get better and it's SO much fun to see the progress you make. Are you doing 5k races yet?

 

[112toGuru]

Okay Donna not totally off topic here but since you brought it up and you are a runner chick, can you tell me why I am barely burning more calories running than I do walking? Seriously, when I started I burned about 350 in 30-35 minutes, now it's half that. I've done other cardio and those numbers come out normal for what I've done in the past, maybe a little lower but not like near half!

It's driving me crazy! I've checked all the numbers & only the running calories are different. Hence the questions whether or not the running would be a good weight loss vs. risk for someone who is truly overweight? I know many people would say that running is going to shed fat & calories the fastest, I'm just finding that hard to believe.

 

[MadnNatsmom]

112toGuru -

What are you using to track your calorie burn? How much do you weigh?

I've read from numerous sources that you pretty much burn 100 calories per mile whether you walk OR run. The difference is the after-burn - you continue to burn calories at a higher rate after you stop running due to the intensity.

I'm about 127 lbs and according to my BodyBugg, I burn about 300 calories for a 30 minute run, 400 for 40 minutes.

 

[kathryn]

I've read from numerous sources that you pretty much burn 100 calories per mile whether you walk OR run.

I've always heard that, too, but more recently have read that racewalking burns more like 120 calories per mile (and it's definitely intense enough to have a good afterburn, especially if you do intervals). That's once you work up to walking a 12 minute mile (or 13, depending on source) or faster.

As to the OP: "Have to ask, it just seems like there are a lot of heavy people out there running for weight loss, it seems like other kinds of exercise would be more beneficial, less risky, more enjoyable, for someone who's really heavy, at least until they have lost some weight."

I would have to agree. Each running step puts the force of 3-8 (depends on sources, perhaps on style? I've seen 5-6, 7-8, 3-4) times ones body weight on the joints. Even for someone not 200+ pounds, that's a lot. And from my observation of different runners, beginners ('joggers') seem to often have a more up-and-down, jerky and impactul movement than the elite runners at the head of the pack (whose posterior chains I am green with envy over!).

I'd highly recommend to beginning runners (heavy or not) to do the bulk of their running on a track. The surface is SO much more forgiving than the street or sidewalk (the latter of which is probably the worst surface to run on, though the more-forgiving blacktop has the problem of a grade that can cause muscle imbalances and injuries if one always runs facing traffic and near the edge of the road).

I do about 1/2 of my walking training on a nearby HS track now (I'd use our university track, which is even cushier--imported from Sweden, I think--but there have been HS track meets and now football training on it almost all summer so far).

Also, as to enjoyment, I would think that having excess fat bouncing around wouldn't be that enjoyable (though that may only be an issue for the 'loose' obese folks, as some people are a more solid 200+#).

 

[112toGuru]

112toGuru -

What are you using to track your calorie burn? How much do you weigh?

I've read from numerous sources that you pretty much burn 100 calories per mile whether you walk OR run. The difference is the after-burn - you continue to burn calories at a higher rate after you stop running due to the intensity.

I'm about 127 lbs and according to my BodyBugg, I burn about 300 calories for a 30 minute run, 400 for 40 minutes.

That is what it started out to be @ 10 calories per minute when I started and for about 3 weeks it was like that, about 2 weeks ago I got these readings between 3.5 & 4 cal per minute:

160 cal in 46 minutes
172 cal in 32 minutes
163 cal in 46 minutes
163 cal in 45 minutes
210 cal in 54 minutes

All were recorded on an Garmin FR60 HRM along with avg speeds avg HR & Max HR, any ideas, I weigh @123 give or take a pound, the readings for other cardio & various exercise appear normal, that is, no apparent change???

 

[112toGuru]

Thanks Kathryn,

That was the main thing, I wouldn't feel good about suggesting someone take up running for concerns over the impact, I have to be extremely cautious of that myself, and will stick to the track training for that reason, although I would like run in the neighborhood, nothing is flat or forgiving, not even the sidewalks.

 

[MidgetDogg]

I've actually heard that you burn as many calories whether you walk 5 miles or run it. The big difference is the amount of time it takes you to do it. I don't have the patience to walk 5 miles.

 

[MadnNatsmom]

That is what it started out to be @ 10 calories per minute when I started and for about 3 weeks it was like that, about 2 weeks ago I got these readings between 3.5 & 4 cal per minute:

160 cal in 46 minutes
172 cal in 32 minutes
163 cal in 46 minutes
163 cal in 45 minutes
210 cal in 54 minutes

All were recorded on an Garmin FR60 HRM along with avg speeds avg HR & Max HR, any ideas, I weigh @123 give or take a pound, the readings for other cardio & various exercise appear normal, that is, no apparent change???

Oh, no, there is no way you are burning only 163 calories for running 46 minutes!!!

I don't know why, but it would seem there is something wonky with your HRM for JUST running, which is very odd.

Our bodies become more efficient to an activity and, therefore, burn slightly fewer calories, but this is way off.

Is there a reset button on the settings and you can reinput all the data from scratch on your HRM?

 

[112toGuru]

I will try that.

Have to say that right around the same time I did have an ah-ha moment when everything seemed to get a lot easier, meaning perceived exertion, it just didn't feel like it was very hard to complete the walk/run intervals (like in the beginning, it's a beginner running plan) it's still a workout, seemed to have much more left at the end.

IDK, I have a similar workout tomorrow, I'll reset everything & see.

Thank you.

MD, may have to do with speed, the heart rate though is up there well beyond walking??? I have the incentive to walk/run 5 miles first.

 

[MidgetDogg]

I don't use the calories burned on my Garmin at all. I have a formula I got online that uses your age, weight, avg HR and VO2 Max. This is a more accurate measure of your burn. But yeah, you're definitely burning more than what the Garmin is saying. Maybe your chest strap isnt hitting right and reading a lower HR. I caught mine reading 96 BPM while I was actually in the 155 area. It slid down cuz of all my sweat. Lol.

 

[SirenSongWoman]

I lost a ton of weight, much of it running, when I developed left adductor issues (PAIN!!!) that left me unable to run or train for nearly two years. I went through multiple physical therapists, none of whom addressed the core issue because none knew what that was, and I had no clue. The first year was off and on; I'd get a little better and hit the trail, getting hurt again - over and over. By the second year, I wasn't doing anything but sitting on the couch eating ice cream. Guess what happened? Yep. Back up over the 200 lb. mark.

A trainer posted something about Functional Movement Screenings that showed up on my Facebook wall and it sounded like what I needed. Sure enough, after two years, Lisa (an FMS PT) fixed me in six appointments over two weeks. My problem was skeletal. I must have had some sort of fall or jumped and landed wrong several years ago because it turned out my left hip was 1-1/2 inches higher than my right and it was throwing everything off, even causing awful problems with my left collarbone! The whole time I was off training, though, I dreamed of running. The birds, the critters, the smell of the leaves, and the sound of my own breath... Running is so mental, especially if you work all day long in a loud, climate controlled environment. It's the best therapy in the world and the memory of the feeling when you're no longer able to run is painful.

Right now I'm power walking, sometimes outside but mostly inside (6-7 laps around the perimeter of the abandoned 2nd floor of the building where I work. Takes about 5 minutes per lap if I'm really cruising and it's air conditioned!) and I'm climbing 109 steps, four times at lunch every day (killer). I hope to start a run/walk plan within the next two weeks that Lisa found for me at CoolRunning.com. I refuse to let my 200+ pounds stop me. If I feel anything weird going on with my joints or "other stuff" I'll pull back a bit. But I am so excited to finally be back. I'm on vacation for the next two weeks and can't wait to hit the trail, even just for walking at first. I was so depressed before finding Lisa, thinking I might never make it back. For some reason, my diet automatically cleans up when I'm seriously engaged in training. Already, a pair of shorts that was tight around the hip just a week ago no longer is. I couldn't believe it. Mental boost for real!

 

[112toGuru]

Wow Stacey that is awesome! That sounds like the right approach, as far as running goes, I knew as many times in the past that it wasn't right, nothing went well and I absolutely hated it. I think I must have tried running so many times because I hated not being able to run more. It took a long time for things to come together. Sounds like you have a great environment to get your workouts in, that is key. It's so much nicer outside when the weather cooperates.

You are back!

MadnNatsmom: Did the master reset on my Garmin. Today really hot/humid here are the stats:

43:16 min, 2.44 mi, 145 cal, avg HR 164, Max 187, (yes this is high, it was 4 intervals & very humid)

Yesterday again though other cardio still reads correctly:

49 min, 334 cal, avg HR 127, max HR 159 which is normal for that activity (non running)

Any ideas???? It is still weird that only the running is like this. I feel good though after, like I have a boatload of energy even after that ugly heat.

 

[MidgetDogg]

That's an excellent story Stacy, except for the fact that it blows for you. I've done trails a couple times and it's really REALLY hard on my body. I have one hip that's about an inch lower than the other due to breaking my pelvis when I was 19. I think it's the source of many of the issues I get when I'm running. Stinks because I would be running everyday if I didn't have to deal with a bad knee on one side and plantar fasciitis on the other. But I'm learning the importance of cross-training. I am going to continue trail running, but on a smaller scale. No further than 5 miles at a time unless the terrain is more even.

112toGuru... your monitor is messed up. Try using this calculator to determine your calories. Triathlon Training Blog > Calculate Calories Burned

You're most likely not going to know your V02 max. The site recommends using 35 if you don't know it, but that might be for guys. There is a table that can give you an idea of your V02 max VO2 Max. I only just got an accurate assessment of mine during track workouts with my running club. If you're off a little, it doesn't make a HUGE difference, so I'd go in the mid-range.