Teaching a college class...frustrated...............

W

Winter

Cathlete
I am teaching an accounting class at a community college in home town. The 2nd one I have taught not the same as the first. The first was 5 years ago.

My goodness have study habits changed or what? I swear most don't read the book and do not do well on the tests. On the second test 1/2 did miserable - F's. So I let them redo the problems during class open book and still some didn't have a clue what to do.

I would never have accepted less than a B for myself. Some students skipped class for 4 weeks, missed 2 tests so I thought they dropped BUT no they showed today. What the BLEEP?

Anybody else teaching in college or have any insights to 18/20 year old students.

In my experience the last 2 years of college which is these students want a 4 year degree they have to transfer - was 3 times harder than year 1 and 2. How do you get them to understand that?


Thanks,

Winter
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

I haven't taught at the college level, but as a 12th grade teacher, I feel your pain!!!! I used to work in a college writing center, and I was amazed at the lack of basic writing skills, the shoddy study habits, and the troubling attitude of "entitlement" that plagued many (but not all) incoming freshmen.

I tell my seniors that the reason I'm such a stickler sometimes is because I care about their skills and want to make sure they're ready for college next year. I'm doing them no favors if I "let them off easy," etc. (They often don't appreciate it until the following year, though! x( )

Does your department have specific guidelines for grading expectations, etc.? What have other instructors who teach the same class done?

Good luck!!!:)
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

There is no grading expectation that I know of. I am filling in for someone and I have asked her and it seems from her response that I shouldn't be surprised too much but I am.

I know they are busy and have to manange time but still you need to at least read the book and get a passing grade on a test right??

I guess I expect everyone to put forth at least the effort to get a B. I finally told them they can't ask for my assistance on homework until they have read the chapter and made a good faith effort to try to figure it out.

I am teaching business students accounting so that could have something to do with it. No accountants.


I always wanted to teach but am realizing that is not all that fun and rewarding if student don't apply themselves:(

Thank for your response.

Winter
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

I returned to school for my second degree 5 years ago now and I was as stunned as you are. These kids were whining about the littlest amount of work. In fact most of the lectures were given with power point and if the presentations weren't given to us the students complained incessantly. The students refused to take notes, do the assignments, or take responsibility for their actions. I was stunned and frustrated by the line of students that had excuses and sob stories for the instructor every day. I thought these kids were in for a HUGE shock when they got their first job with a boss who actually expected them to get their work done. I am sorry you are having such an icky experience, but unfortunately I think the problem is pervasive.

Shayne
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

I teach at the college level: short of using a cattle prod, I have yet to figure out how to get freshmen to pick up book without excessive amounts of complaining! A few will, and I try to engage them in broad discussions about themes in the books. However, I'm also a firm believer in pop quizzes and essay exams that focus on material not covered in lecture. Students that don't do the work generally don't pass. In the upper-level courses, however, I've noticed a lot of enthusiasm, especially among majors-- helps get me through the freshmen courses....


:)
 
I HAVE a almost 20 year old and get frustrated with him. He is starting to "get" it that he has to work to get the grades, but I did not raise him to be this way, so not sure why this is happening, unless it is just the peers are doing the same. Other parents are equally as frustrated with their boys, girls not so much. My DD who is almost 15 is doing better because I am hammering her and she has watched her brother do poorly his first year. She wants to do well and get into college. She also has an LD so has to work harder. I think this actually might be to her benefit.

I am taking a night class and the teacher expressed that she prefers night students. I think because the youngest is maybe 23, have dropped out once, figured out what the problem is and has now come back. There are a few who are doing the no study route and are not doing well...but most are trying to get the high A.
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

I am a 33yo college student...I took one semester of college out of high school, realized I wasn't ready and dropped out. I went back after 10 years and will finally graduate in May. What a HUGE difference. I see such a big difference between me and the traditional aged students in my classes. I am more focused and actually do the work.

Last semester in my 2nd semester college chem class, I was horrified at the lack of effort others were putting forth. I would go to class and pay attention, read the book, and actually do the work that was assigned. I consistently got A's in class while the class average was generally in the 60's. My teacher made it really easy to do well in his class by posting multiple choice 'quizzes' to help us study for tests and it was obvious that half of the class didn't do them because most of the multiple choice questions were on the test, either directly worded or with just the numbers changed.

I think it's laziness and it is just not a high enough priority with many of them because some of them do pretty well in class, but most just don't put forth the effort.

As long as you are not making things impossibly hard (some teachers do that and then give a huge curve at the end of the semester), then it is not your problem if they are not doing the work, as frustrating as it may be.
 
I know what you mean. I am taking an accounting class at a community college, instructor says that our class is one of the best he had, he was shocked when 7 had an A on the first test and the average was around 85 (never happened before). Almost half the class has taken accounting 211 before and failed, I am surprised too!!
 
Hi Winter,

I'm a English professor at a community college, and I've been teaching for almost fourteen years at the two-year and four-year levels. In that time, I've noticed a definite decrease in students' levels of preparedness and their desire to do the work. It's definitely a pervasive problem!

I think, too, that the community college lends itself more to students who aren't committed to being in school; many of the younger students are there because it's "the thing to do," and many of them are also working full-time or holding down jobs that require them to work a large number of hours. When I taught at two different four-year universities, I didn't see the lack of motivation nearly as much.

The last few semesters, I've tried putting a statement on my syllabi that mentions how much time they need to put into the class -- that old rule that for every unit of class, they need to spend 2-3 hours outside of class studying. I try to spend time the first few weeks emphasizing how much work our class will involve.

It took me a few years, too, to realize that failing a class can be a good wake-up call for many of them who just aren't committed to college.

You're not alone!

:)
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

My husband teaches at a community college, and would be in total agreement with you about the lack of work ethic, expecting everything to be handed to them, and in general, a lack of enthusiasm about learning!

I was an undergraduate music major in the early nineties. My music and music-related classes had students who were motivated to do well, both in lecture-type and performance classes. I noticed that when I took my general, non-music courses, I seemed to see alot of what you are experiencing. I remember taking a philosophy class, which probably had 30-40 students in it. I did the readings and took notes and always got A's on tests and papers. The professor would show how many people got A's, B's etc. and I was ALWAYS the only A! That just blew my mind...here I was spending most of my day practicing, but made sure I prepared for my other classes, and I was the only one getting A's?

So even "back then" (yikes) there seemed to be a lot of lazy students in college! But now that I'm a teacher, I can see how the seeds of laziness are planted...parents who "hover", demand teachers to change grades, complaining about homework...not too much, just...homework. They are not doing their kids any favors in the long run!
 
Hi there,

I'm an assistant professor at a large state college and I can tell you that you are most certainly not alone! I find that most of my students think that attending class is optional, and I do participation and formative assessment questions nearly every class.

Good luck!
 
Hi! I'm a Teaching Assistant at a state university. Last semester I had an upper division class. Most of the people were excited to be there, attendance was good, and averages on tests were good. Granted, there was some stupidity and laziness, but not an overwhelming amount. This semester, however, I am assigned to a freshman-level genEd course and it is absolutely discouraging. The first quiz average was a D and so many of the responses were just lazy! The papers were not much better. There is no analysis! Just a descriptive paper! These kids also use vocabulary they don't grasp or even make up words. It's really frustrating.

I know from my own experience that high schools are not preparing students to perform well in college. Also, I was lucky to have parents who cared about my work in school and didn't make excuses for me. Many of my peers like to blame anyone but themselves when they're too lazy to get their butts to class and do the work. People my age just don't value anything, especially their education. It's too easy to get into school and too easy to pass. Our nation is really suffering from low expectations.
 
I think part of the problem has to be attributed to colleges that have started considering their students to be "customers." That may contribute to the sense of entitlement. And lots of parents think that because they are shelling out for their child's education, the child has "bought" good grades.
 
"Teaching a college class....frustrated...."

Being a student in a college class...frustrating!

I went back to school a couple of years ago after being out for nearly 10 years. It is amazing how the times have changed. There are habitual tardies and lazy students. Some of my classmates cannot use correct grammar or write papers (they had never heard of MLA). Some classmates are so lazy that they expect me to do the work on group assignments (The main reason I hate group assignments). It is really annoying when a student walks into the class five minutes late and precedes to put his/her recorder on the instructor's table! How rude!!! If I were an instructor, I would tell the student to leave!

However, I have also noticed a difference in some of the instructors (not all). I have an instructor who will deduct points if you are too specific even if she asks you to be specific. I also have another instructor who says, "Here is your assignment, have at it." They do not even explain the material or give a lecture. Then, I have had instructors who cannot accept fault even if they are truly wrong. They make up some excuse for it being correct or they were just confused.

Overall, however, students that lack initiative and drive will typically drop out within the first semester or two. It is difficult to work with them (as a student)in the meantime. On a side note, I will be graduating this May with highest honors. I will also start nursing school in August. I believe a few extra years and some maturity go along way, but that is no excuse for being lazy.

Have a fantastic weekend!
 
Winter:

You have to harden yourself in order to get through. You cannot take on responsibility for your students' lack of desire to study and do well. Trying to do so will lead you through sadness, desperation, frustration and to burn out.

I have taught at US universities for over 10 years, Spanish at various levels, both to students who wanted to be there and those multitudes who did not. Tough for them. Their crappy attitude and disinterest in learning anything at all and using their brains to become a more informed individual and future citizen has nothing to do with me.

Your job is to make sure you are in class, completely prepared to teach, with full knowledge of the material. You can motivate, cajole, and be passionate about your subject. Passion and enthusiasm often touch a student more than threats and quizzes. But you can also offer many quizzes and pop tests and you must give them regular, timely feedback on their performance so that there are no nasty surprises when it comes time for a big test or exam.

The hardest thing for me to accept when I began teaching in the US after being educated in the UK was that as a teacher I always had to make sure I could defend myself. I always make sure to keep scrupulous notes on all exams, quizzes and essays assigned, on all grades earned, and additional notes on particular behaviours: lateness to class, absence, failure to hand in work, and "mental absence" in class. I am always prepared to be confronted by a student and inform them of exactly why they should not be surprised that they failed my exam/essay/course.

Maybe it is particular to language classes, but the final grade is always made up of multiple sections: give a grade for participation and attendance, for quizzes, for exams and essays. You can be more flexible with participation grades, but not with the rest. You can also bump up the participation grade to a larger percentage of the total final grade. That way, if they know that 30% of their final grade depends upon their participation, they may be more inclined to:

--attend class
--come prepared with texts read and notes taken, questions to ask
--participate in class discussion

I cannot stress this enough because if your students do not come prepared to class, I don't know how you can teach it. At least, this is true for language classes. Nothing will happen in my Spanish class if my students have not done their homework because, quite simply, there will be nothing to discuss and no-one to offer opinions except me.

I refuse to give students the answers, spoon-feed or hand-hold. That is not teaching, it is capitulation, or mothering. You cannot adopt a maternal role with respect to your students or they will milk it for all they are worth. If they don't do the work, they don't get the grade. It's that easy.

I have always maintained, and so have the good instructors I have learned from, that every student has the right to fail. Old Chinese Proverb: "The teacher can open the door: the student must walk through it alone." As the other poster said, sometimes failing a course is the massive wake up call a student needs to realize that after they leave college they will be out in the big, bad world where failure to do the project assigned does not lead to being given a second chance to complete it: it leads to being fired.

Hope this helps,

Clare
 
>My goodness have study habits changed or what? I swear most
>don't read the book and do not do well on the tests. On the
>second test 1/2 did miserable - F's. So I let them redo the
>problems during class open book and still some didn't have a
>clue what to do.
>
>I would never have accepted less than a B for myself. Some
>students skipped class for 4 weeks, missed 2 tests so I
>thought they dropped BUT no they showed today. What the
>BLEEP?
>
>Anybody else teaching in college or have any insights to 18/20
>year old students.

I teach at a university, and I understand all too well your frustration.

I have daily homework for students (necessary in a foreign-language class), and many of them just don't do it. And some of them are 'aiming to get a D' in the class, because that's passing. In General Education classes especially, many students want to do the minumum. Also, it seems to me like many students never learned how to be successful students, and don't have study skills.

Some of my collegues have actually walked out of class because the students didn't prepare the class as they should, and there was no way they could conduct the class discussion with an unprepared group.

It is particularly frustrating for those of us who were good students ourselves, I think. Once I got to college, I was unhappy with any "B" I got (darn fencing class!), and I was aiming for "A's" all the way.
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

> In the
>upper-level courses, however, I've noticed a lot of
>enthusiasm, especially among majors-- helps get me through the
>freshmen courses....

Same here.
It's so wonderful to teach students (majors and minors) who actually want to learn and put in the work necessary).>
>
 
RE: Teaching a college class...frustrated.................

>I was amazed at the lack of basic writing
>skills, the shoddy study habits, and the troubling attitude of
>"entitlement" that plagued many (but not all) incoming
>freshmen.

Yes, it seems more students these days feel they should pass "just because," or that they should get an "A" for participation because they were physically present in class (using that criteria, the desk and chair would also get a grade ;-) ).
 
Thank you everyone for your responses. It is sad to know that I am not alone.

This has been my dream job that I applied for 8 years ago but didn't get it because I had not passed my CPA yet. I was devastated. I have been envious of the person who got the job all these years. The she asked me to teach principles 101 5 years ago and it was so great.

Now I am wondering if I really could do this job if I can't get people motivated to learn - especially if it is accounting and they are not accounting majors.

In the meantime of not having this job I have been very fortunate to live in another country and travel a lot. So maybe a blessing in disguise that I didn't get the job 8 years ago.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it!
 
I've been taking classes at a community college for a year now and am old enough to be the mother of the majority of the other students. I've been amazed and perplexed by this same majority. I'm not quite sure if the public schools they are coming out of are leaving them unprepared or if they just don't care. Community college where I live is practically free ($20 a unit) and it's easy to receive financial aid so that you actually get paid a little bit to attend. At the beginning of each semester every single teacher I have had has lectured and included in the syllabus that there will be no texting during class (I have seen people doing it anyway). I'm thinking to myself "Whaaat? This really needs to be stated?". Apparently, it does.....

And then there was the time that I really felt like saying something to the student who aksed a bunch of questions concerning material that had been covered in the three previous class sessions that she didn't bother to attend. She wasted 15 minutes of my time (and the other students who regularly show up for class) and time that the teacher could have spent on the new material to be covered that day.

If the root of the problem is an I-don't-really-care attitude then I tend to think that if a greater financial burden were placed on the shoulders of these kids (or their parents) that would be incentive to put forth more effort and to approach studying with a little more maturity.

That they might be generally unprepared is scary to consider given that at least two of the classes I took were fairly easy. The same problems were present in the easier classes as they were in those that I would say are difficult.

Obviously, I've got no answeres but I do feel for you!
 
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