So, who won the debate?

Dorothyrd,

You're right, no one twisted their arms and made them do it. But unscrupulous mortgage brokers and credit card companies didn't have to make it so easy for them.

Proper regulation would have gone a long way towards preventing a lot of the economic mess we are in right now.

In terms of this tread, it doesn't matter. Did either candidate say something definitive during the debate about this area that makes you want to vote for one more then the other?

I didn't watch the debate, so I honestly don't know.

I know some people have said that the defining issue for them has been gay marriage and abortion. Did theytouch on any of that during the debate?
 
Dorothyrd,

You're right, no one twisted their arms and made them do it. But unscrupulous mortgage brokers and credit card companies didn't have to make it so easy for them.

Proper regulation would have gone a long way towards preventing a lot of the economic mess we are in right now.

In terms of this tread, it doesn't matter. Did either candidate say something definitive during the debate about this area that makes you want to vote for one more then the other?

I didn't watch the debate, so I honestly don't know.

I know some people have said that the defining issue for them has been gay marriage and abortion. Did theytouch on any of that during the debate?


They did not discuss either topic during the debate. I wish they would have.

I do not believe either candidate can fix the problems of this country. Both candidates have their strong points. And both candidates have their weak points.
 
There was talk of the financial crisis in the first 40 minutes but the moderator asked the question 3 times during the 40 minutes because they both danced around it....i.e, there is no good answer to the mess. And the abortion issue was not raised, however this debate was suppose to be foreign policy based, and there was a lot about that. I found some of the things Obama said on that a bit disconcerting, already knew McCain's stance.
 
And the abortion issue was not raised, however this debate was suppose to be foreign policy based, and there was a lot about that.
*nods* I'm confused as to why some in the news are asking why immigration and other domestic issues weren't really discussed. I thought it was pretty clear that this was going to be mainly foreign policy.
 
I agree. When I realized Obama supported same sex marriage and pro-abortion issues, I knew I was voting for McCain. And, I just don't care for Obama.

*sigh* How many times must is be repeated that NO ONE IS PRO-ABORTION!?!?!?!?! People are PRO-CHOICE. No one is pro-abortion--and I take HUGE offense to those who think I am.

I can't believe that being in the financial and economic crisis that we're in right now, people are still focused on the gay marriage and abortion issues. People, we have much bigger fish to fry than those two issues right now. WHO CARES WHO SOMEONE MARRIES?!?!?! It's none of any of our business.

Before I start a 20 page rant, I better just back away slowely right now....
 
I've noticed many don't like the term Anti-Choice either, though technically that's what abortion opponents support...no choice.

Personally, if standing up for a woman's right to bodily integrity is being labeled as "pro abortion," fine...I'm pro-abortion without apology. Pro-gay marriage too. :)

I agree, Allison. This is so much bigger than one or two issues.
 
*sigh* How many times must is be repeated that NO ONE IS PRO-ABORTION!?!?!?!?! People are PRO-CHOICE. No one is pro-abortion--and I take HUGE offense to those who think I am.

I can't believe that being in the financial and economic crisis that we're in right now, people are still focused on the gay marriage and abortion issues. People, we have much bigger fish to fry than those two issues right now. WHO CARES WHO SOMEONE MARRIES?!?!?! It's none of any of our business.

Before I start a 20 page rant, I better just back away slowely right now....

Sorry, I didn't realize I was repeating myself.
 
And the abortion issue was not raised, however this debate was suppose to be foreign policy based, and there was a lot about that. I found some of the things Obama said on that a bit disconcerting, already knew McCain's stance.

I am curious what it was that you found a bit disconcerting about what Obama said.

I am not trying to pick on you, Dorothy, I am just curious what specificially you meant by that.
 
About the gay marriage - commiting your life to someone you love...CAN"T WE LEAVE THESE PEOPLE ALONE!!!??!!! Its NONE of our business!!!! AND it increases the tax revenue!!!

About abortion - its DONE people! RU486 makes it a decision of a woman and her doctor!!! Its horrible! But as a conservative, and a Christian, Please stay out of my family and my uterus, to have a child or NOT is a SACRED right of a woman, like it or not, it ain't going away - keep it legal to keep it safe.....AND focus the energy on educating kids to make them competitive in this increasingly alarming economy!

Obama is pro choice - which means he leaves it to a woman to make the moral choice - that is the stance of Barry Goldwater, the father of the conservative movement....

Obama is not experienced enough, but he was raised by a welfare mom and went to Harvard and is brilliant and I"m ready for brilliance.....Biden is a loose cannon, but I'm more afraid of Sarah Palin - who I THINK might be good if they let her have 8 years to get seasoned - she is smart but narrow in her education and experience with other cultures - even within the US she seems to be enjoying learning the diversity, she has potential, seems like she would evolve....

Obama won it for class and sanity....McCain was unnecessarily condescending and he voted AGAINST the GI bill that would've given GIs education and increased health care on their return - it passed anyway thank God....and he may have voted for it in the final run - anyone know?
 
I am curious what it was that you found a bit disconcerting about what Obama said.

I am not trying to pick on you, Dorothy, I am just curious what specificially you meant by that.

Everyone assumes Obama gets elected, no more war. Which everyone wants an end to the war.

First of all, the surge worked in Iraq, Obama needs to admit it did and move on. He is also being somewhat of a moving target, look at Factcheck.com:(which by the way shows where both sides messed up, good reading).

A Longer Timetable


Obama stretched out his schedule for withdrawing troops from Iraq. During the debate, Obama said we could "reduce" the number of combat troops in 16 months:

Obama: Now, what I've said is we should end this war responsibly. We should do it in phases. But in 16 months we should be able to reduce our combat troops, put – provide some relief to military families and our troops and bolster our efforts in Afghanistan so that we can capture and kill bin Laden and crush al Qaeda.

But in Oct. 2007, Obama supported removing all combat troops from Iraq
within 16 months:

Obama (Oct. 2007): I will remove one or two brigades a month, and get all of our combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months. The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on al Qaeda. And I will launch the diplomatic and humanitarian initiatives that are so badly needed. Let there be no doubt: I will end this war.

The quote appears in "Barack Obama and Joe Biden on Defense Issues" – a
position paper that was still available on the campaign's Web site as Obama
 
One reason he was against the Iraq surge was because he felt it should be in Afaghanastan. And he also mentioned going into Pakistan, which we are not even in yet. So folks, he is not ending the war, he is moving the war. I find it misleading when people tout that if Obama gets elected....troup withdrawal....that will not happen....it is misleading to let people assume that. Perhaps I am glad he talked about this in the debate, for people to wake up.
 
First of all, the surge worked in Iraq, Obama needs to admit it did and move on. He is also being somewhat of a moving target, look at Factcheck.com:(which by the way shows where both sides messed up, good reading).

Well, I guess my question is, IF the surge in fact worked then why are we still in Iraq? Now McCain is not giving any straight talk here, it is double talk!! The surge has worked but we need to stay. Maybe this is a matter of semantics but to me, if the surge has worked we can successively start withdrawing our troops, if we can't withdraw troops and have to stay there, the surge has NOT worked.

The goal of the surge was to increase troop levels to give the Iraqi government time to breathe and accomplish reconsiliation of the different fractions in Iraq, to enable the Iraqis to take over the security of their own country. Now there was never any doubt if we increase the number of our troops that the secretarian violance would be decreased. The Iraqis seem to be convinced that they can do without us, they don't want us there, they think they can take care of their own country and by stubbornly insisting that we have to stay we are occupying a sovereign nation that we had no place to invade in the first place.

What I find very peculiar was that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said U.S. troops should be out of Iraq “as soon as possible” and in fact endorsed Obama’s withdrawal plan as the right time frame for a withdrawl with the possiblity of slight changes. After Obama's recent visit to Iraq the government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh reiterated his government’s stance, saying “the end of 2010 is the appropriate time for withdrawl. Bush argued for more time and the ultimate agreement was that all U.S. troops would be out of Iraq by the end of 2011, not 2010, that despite of the fact that Bush had said “if they were to say, leave, we would leave.”

It turned out that the White House communications staff was concerned that Maliki’s endorsement of the 2010 time line would damage McCain’s presidential campaign. During an interview with Iraqi television last week (according to an Open Source Center translation www.opensource.gov), Maliki suggested that the U.S. presidential elections played a role:

"Actually, the final date was really the end of 2010 and the period of 2010 and the end of 2011 was withdrawing the remaining troops from all of Iraq but they asked for a change in date due to politcal circumstances related to the US domestic situation so it will not be said to the end of 2010 followed by one year for withdrawl but the end of 2011 as a final date."

Despite of Bush and McCain contantly touting that commanders and not politics decide on the course in Iraq, it seems like both are playing politics with the lives of American troops and the money of American tax payers for purely selfish reasons, ambition and political gain!!! It is appauling!!

That being said, I don't understand what is wrong with setting a goal of 16 months. It is what it is, a GOAL. I set goals for every day, every week, every month, every year and a long-term goal. It is a measure that keeps me accountable and focused. Goals need to be SMART, Specific, Measureable, Achievable, Realistic and Time framed. A 16 month time frame in book clearly meets that requirement.

One of my teachers once said to me "most people aim for nothing in life ........ and hit it with amazing accuracy". Setting a goal or aiming for something enables you to set up a road map how to get there and when to get there, if I encounter road blocks or "traffic jam", a change in conditions, I reevalute, adjust, amend and look how I can get there without too many detours or time lost. I don't just drive and see what happens.

I understand what you are saying, Dorothy, I respect your opinion, I guess I just wanted to state a different view on things
 
They are withdrawing troups out of Iraq, just not all at once, but they are sending people home, or too Afganistan.

Anyway changing the subject again....I got an idea for the bail-out. All politicians who are spending millions on their campaigns, fork it over and bail out this situation, instead of the tax payers. How many millions have been spent over the summer on both sides of the aisle?

And the added bonus is no more commercials, no more phone messages, maybe they could get out and talk to the folks.
 
When I realized Obama supported same sex marriage and pro-abortion issues, I knew I was voting for McCain.

Also, Obama does NOT support same-sex mariages, but he supports some kind of domestic partnership deal (someone posted about it earlier up on the thread) that would give them many of the rights of a married couple.
 
BTW, I am actually not against trying to put a "goal" on withdrawal. I am pointing out even Obama, once he probably studied the situation realizes it cannot be hard and fast, hence the changes in his wording. So for those that think no more war if/when he gets elected(I honestly think he will), will find that he will still be managing a war in the Middle East for years to come.
 
*sigh* How many times must is be repeated that NO ONE IS PRO-ABORTION!?!?!?!?! People are PRO-CHOICE. No one is pro-abortion--and I take HUGE offense to those who think I am.

I can't believe that being in the financial and economic crisis that we're in right now, people are still focused on the gay marriage and abortion issues. People, we have much bigger fish to fry than those two issues right now. WHO CARES WHO SOMEONE MARRIES?!?!?! It's none of any of our business.

Before I start a 20 page rant, I better just back away slowely right now....

One reason that I still am concerned (focused) on the abortion issue and gay marriage is that it is highly likely the next president will select one or more supreme court justices and that can affect the direction that these issues go. I'm also concerned about the economy and the war and education but I cannot ignore these other issues.
 

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