So sad my dog won't stop biting!

Janie,

I don't know too much about doggies, except the ones I've had. They were all small.

If you have children though, and this dog is biting you in the face, and other parts of the body, it will (as curious and close as children get to doggies) bite your children. It could also leave a lot of damage and scar on their sensitive skins and perhaps mentally as well. If you were bit in the face, then all kinds of things might happen. An eye out is possible.:confused: How horrible that would be, and you would never forgive yourself, especially if it could have been prevented.

It would be different if it were only your hubby and you at home trying to teach this dog not to bite, but, there isn't. Children are always number one in the family and most of all their safety is imperative.

I'm sorry:(, I know you are doing everything possible to change him. Is Jonezie's technique still working for you? I hope so. (((Hugs to you and your family.)))


Janie
 
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I am really sorry that you are going thru such a difficult time with your puppy. I have raised many puppies over the years including a litter of 9 weimaraners and I don't believe that this is normal puppy behavior. I have only had one dog--a lhasa--that tried to bite and sticking my hand in his mouth just once stopped the behavior. Most dogs learn from their mom and their littermates that biting hurts and is unacceptable. I think that group classes is a great idea and getting him out there playing with other dogs--who will let him know straight off--may help. Did you get him from a breed rescue or from a shelter? I don't think a shelter would be much help but a specific breed rescue might be more interested in helping you and protecting their breed. Wish you the best in getting this resolved. Remember to be confident when interacting with your puppy and, I know others don't agree, but I am a big believer in the pack leader school of thought.
 
Janie, I admire your gumption to keep training that puppy. I honestly don't understand some of the people responding negatively towards you, especially those who say they have children. I have not gone through what you have had to go through, but I do have a daughter, and I would be super scared if I had a puppy that was biting me. Makes me wonder about what sorts of parents some of the other posters are, or perhaps their children are simply older. I do wish you luck and hope you continue to have success in training the pup.
 
Ugh, . . Mspina this is my first puppy but my parents have always had a dog and my brother and sister have several dogs, . .I don't think this is normal puppy behavior. We've been consistent and firm. I didn't mean to sound so ticked off BUT I do love this dog. The thought that I would be accused of not trying hard enough to train him well quite frankly hurts.

Cynthia you are right I am a first time puppy owner I trying. Really trying. My vet said to wait till he was six months for classes because his of his immunity but that is deffinitely going to happen. He'll be six months at the end of the month.

Lisa, Gayle, Carola, Cynthia, . . Tricia, . . and Jonezie, . .sorry if I've missed anyone. I've literally printed out all your advice and made a sorta Cathe Dog Training book. You guys are amazing. Thanks for putting up with me and all my dog woes. It is really as stressful as being a first time mom. Seriously, . . I'm trying. You have all been so tremendously helpful.

Everyone thanks. Really from the bottom of my heart thank you.

An update on the gag method, . . well, . .I spent the day doing it and it actually got really dangerous. He got agressive and very angry. Yes, I got bit, . .again. :( Don't know if I should stop maybe wear gloves. I'm actually taking him to the vet just to make sure this is not a medical thing with him. Looking for another behaviorist. :(

His background well he was removed from his litter right after birth found abandoned. I was told that most of his little did not survive. He had no time with littermates, . aparently the ones that did make it were sick and quaranteened (sp?) . He was in a foster then at 8 weeks put in rescue adopted out then returned and adopted out and returned again. The rescue seemed to think that he was punished or hit for peeing and whining because he seemed fearful when a clip board was near. The paper work from his previous owner said that he pooped and peed to much but that he was left home alone for hours. He was also returned really skinny. Then we came along. He was a happy, playful pup at 3 months, . showed off his fetching skills when we first met him but was rail thin. Even our vet said he was underweight on a scale from 1-5 he was a 3.

Everyone thanks for listening. Mspina really I'm sorry if I sounded pissy. I just really, really love this guy. I don't like flame wars here, . . at all and I asked for advice I need to be gracious if someone agrees with me or not.

I'm going to keep trying but my husband says changes need to happen. He's giving me a month and I'm watching him like a hawk around the kids. I keep him tethered to me whenever we are home and on a short leash during walks. Heaven help me I'm going to keep on trying.

Thanks everyone really your kindness and support it brings tears to my eyes. You are all so wonderful!
 
Janie, I just want to compliment you on your efforts. As you have mentioned this behavior does not sound like normal puppy nipping and playing. Good for you for recognizing that something needed to be done and trying to find the resources to learn what to do. Since he is still at such a young age, I am hopefully that your consistency will teach him what is acceptable behavior. I have only had 2 aggressive dogs in all my years and know how scary a situation it can be. Keep us posted on his progression.

Jean
 
Janie...ugh! I'm so disappointed. My heart just fell when I read your post. On one hand, I can say it always seems to get worse JUST before it gets better. I'm all about being consistent...but I certainly don't want you to be bitten again...and taking the time to find a glove and put it on and go back and put your hand in his mouth just isn't going to work. I agree that he is a puppy and is going to exhibit a lot of immature behavior...but no one can discern with confidence whether he is exhibiting normal puppyness or red flag behavior...except you and the experts you have taken such care to contact.

I am PMing you with the name and number of my trainer in Pasadena. He has trained police dogs (German Shepherds) for many years...and knows a lot about the difference between normal drive and abnormal aggression. When I trained in his class for 10 weeks, he was surrounded by shepherds, but you never would have known it because they were unbelievably well-behaved. I remember his personal shepherd mouthing a lot in play and drive, but not aggression (only with him...not with us or the other dogs). I just think he might be able to offer some sound wisdom about practical things you can do and also about what is to be expected in a puppy his size vs. genuine red flag signs of aggression.

Another question...do I remember correctly? Do you live in California? I wonder how many forum members, maybe some who've contributed to this post, live near you? I don't know how far you live from me...but I would gladly come in person and help if I could...or just give you a big hug and lots of support. I'm sure there are more people who would be willing to do so...like a "Save George and Janie" caravan.

Another idea...and this is far out, I know. But have you thought about contacting Cesar Millan? He is in California and takes a LOT of cases where children and aggressive dogs are involved. And based on George's age...he might be VERY interested in taking your case. PS...if he deems George to be a red flag case, he would take him back to his rehabilitation center for a few weeks and socialize him with well-balanced dogs (since it seems he did not have this opportunity as a puppy). If this interests you, I would gladly help you find his contact info.

I'd like to tell you a story. A dog came into my life a couple of years ago...his name was Finley. I just happened to encounter him through a friend of a friend...a woman who was renting a room in my friend's home had recently adopted him, only to leave him for 16 hours everyday in a room with a puppy pad and some dry kibble. I can't tell you how much it broke my heart to see that little puppy face stuck in that room all day. It HAUNTED me! So...I finally persuaded this woman (who I never did meet because she was NEVER home) to let me take him home.

At the time, I had recently lost my beloved dog of 18 years...and wasn't quite ready to give my heart to another. Perhaps more importantly, it seemed clear from the very beginning that Finley wasn't meant to be my forever dog. He LOVED children and lots of people and activity...and I was a single woman with no children who lives a very quiet lifestyle. He was miserable being left alone...and I had to work 7 hours a day. But I LOVED him and felt a strong bond with him, even though I'd only shared three weeks of my life with him.

I knew I was only going to be a foster mom, an aunt, a loving and nurturing transition to his forever home. And I sent an e-mail out to friends, co-workers at the school where I teach, and fellow dog lovers. Got several calls (one lady who admitted to having no fenced yard and lots of coyotes...not no, but hell no, lady)...and finally got a call from a co-worker at school with a teenage daughter who'd been wanting a dog. I hung up the phone and cried because I knew in my heart this was the family for him.

The day I put him in the car to go home with his new family, I started crying...and didn't stop for TWO weeks! Had I done the right thing?!? But let me tell you...Finley moved into a home with 4 children and 2 grandchildren, lots of activity and fun and attention...AND this woman lived on a cottage located on the corner of our campus. Within walking distance from her office. Never home alone more than a couple of hours, lunches together everyday, etc. He was in HEAVEN. That was his home. And guess who is his aunt and dog sitter emeritus...ME!!! I get to see him all the time...and he always leaps into my arms like "Thank you for getting me here!!!" One of my favorite things is going down and having PB&J sandwiches with Finley and his family at lunch.

My point is this...I had the choice to look at Finley as abandoned, and then passed from shelter to one home and then another and then another. Which made me sad. Or I could look at it with gratitude. That precious little dog found his way into my home and heart and trusted me to carry him to safety and security. What a privilege. And so it is with your precious George. This is not to say that George is not meant to be with you...just that you have a unique opportunity to do what is best for him, whatever that unfolds to be. There is a perfect solution, I genuinely believe. If your home is where he is meant to be...I will help in any way I can. And if his perfect place is still awaiting him...I will be here for you when you make that decision, as well. Either way, you can know that dog will never stop loving you. Or you him.

Love to you both!
:) Jonezie
 
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I agree with Carola - you need some serious, professional intervention ASAP. I understand your love of this dog and admire your tenacity and devotion, BUT an unpredictable dog that bites is not an appropriate pet - especially when children are involved. It's a disastrous situation, one frought with guilt and disappointment. I'm so sorry for your situation - I really am, but the reality of it is that your dog is posing a danger to you and your family. I hope you get the help you need! Please keep us informed!

Heidi
 
Janie,
So sorry. You are in a very challenging situation. I hope that you can find a good trainer that can help all of you. Good luck and you are in my thoughts.

Deb
 
Janie1234

Your story is just heartbreaking, I thought I could offer a possible alternative, some groups that foster parent dogs will take dogs with this kind of dispostion and see that they are cared for, socialized with other dogs, and trained by spending time with several adoptive families. They are very strict about where the dog goes from there, insisting that they will make the best match for adopting out a dog to person or family, many times they won't consider families with young children.

There may be a group like this near where you live? In this way, the dog gets the chance to find a good home, and someone prepared to give him all the care he needs. That's what I would look into, the shelter may have a three strikes, even if they have been irresponsible in this particular adoption, they may do this routinely, sometimes the faults in the process are obvious, doesn't mean anything will change, that's just the way it is.

Good Luck with your dog, perhaps there are others that can give you a fresh perspective?

Linda
 
Another idea...and this is far out, I know. But have you thought about contacting Cesar Millan? He is in California and takes a LOT of cases where children and aggressive dogs are involved. And based on George's age...he might be VERY interested in taking your case. PS...if he deems George to be a red flag case, he would take him back to his rehabilitation center for a few weeks and socialize him with well-balanced dogs (since it seems he did not have this opportunity as a puppy). If this interests you, I would gladly help you find his contact info.

This was going to be my suggestion as well, but I didn't want to say it first! I really was thinking this whole time that Cesar Millan would be absolutely perfect for this situation and would also tell you never to give up and to be calmly assertive (he says that for every situation)!
 
This was going to be my suggestion as well, but I didn't want to say it first! I really was thinking this whole time that Cesar Millan would be absolutely perfect for this situation and would also tell you never to give up and to be calmly assertive (he says that for every situation)!



He does say this, but he also recognizes in some cases, the dog needs a different handler. I know he would never leave a dog in a home that put children in danger. I can remember a few episodes when he told the dog owner that their dog was not a good fit and they agreed to let him choose another dog for them.

I just finished reading Cesar's newest book, "How to Raise the Perfect Dog". He talks about the early development of a dog from birth to 9 weeks old and how crucial this stage is and why it is important to choose a reputable breeder, avoid puppy shop dogs (puppy mill dogs).
Georgie missed interaction with his litter mates and mother. This could lead to a lifetime of behavior problems that are extremely difficult to overcome.
 
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Georgie missed interaction with his litter mates and mother. This could lead to a lifetime of behavior problems that are extremely difficult to overcome.
That is my gut feeling, as sad as it makes me to say. :(

I know this is hard for you. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this Janie, and I admire you so much for putting your all into helping him. But, unfortunately the truth is that perhaps he should be placed with a family that has no kids. He is not displaying normal puppy behavior, and I just would not be willing to risk it with my own kids if I was in the same situation. (((hugs!!!)))

Melissa
 
I also agree that Cesar Milan might be able to help you. I wonder how you get him to take a dog to his rehab center because really it sounds like that is exactly what Georgie needs--a chance to interact and learn from other dogs--balanced dogs that is.
In today's, Sat, New York Daily News there is an article entitled When Good Pets Attack. I thought of you and what you are going thru.
Kind of a summary: Most bites occur because people can't interpret their pets' postures and signals. People need to learn to read dog body language and take early signs of aggression seriously, especially when there are children in the home. Most dog bites occur when the dog is wagging his tail. This can mean excitement or arousal --not necessarily friendliness.
Never leave your children alone with a dog!
"The Family Pet" on Petliferadio.com is a good place for info.
Most bite cases are from unneutered males. I assume Georgie is neutered if not get it done ASAP.
The ASPCA has excellent articles on animal behavior including an ILLUSTRATED CANINE BODY LANGUAGE chart. For info www.aspcabehavior.org and search for desired topic.
I hope something here helps. As a new dog owner you may not be reading his body language correctly --not that that is an excuse for biting--but by recognizing it you may be able to stop the bite before it happens.
Wishing you and your family and Georgie all the best and hope you can get this resolved.
 
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I sympathize with your situation. I used to have a dog who was part Shepherd and part wolf and 100% crazy. I loved him to death, but he was big and always unpredictable. Every time the doorbell would ring I'd have to go throw him into a bedroom to keep him away from people, because I just couldn't trust him. He bit both me, my husband, and the vet. Not horrible bites, but ANY bite is not acceptable. He lived till he was 12 years old and the day I took him to put him down, he could barely walk and I still had a muzzle on him and as the vet was putting him down, he was growling...:mad: He was sweet most of the time, smart, well-behaved, etc, but it was a stressful 12 years. In retrospect, I did a lot of things wrong. After watching Cesar Millan these last few years, I realize that I was not interpreting Bear's body language correctly, was not showing the proper leadership skills, and overall, I feel bad that I could have made him a happier dog and in turn I would have been a happier dog mom.

My current dog is a 9-year old yellow lab, who would lick you to death before he ever even thought of biting, and this is the way it should be. Please don't give up, but please get some help. Since you live in CA, I would definitely check into contacting Cesar. I've seen him do some amazing things with dogs. You deserve to have a happy, well-balanced dog, who in turn will make your life a lot happier and safer.

Sorry for rambling incoherently... I wish you all the best and applaud your determination to find the right solution for this dog and your family.
 
Janie...here's one way to contact:

http://www.cesarsway.com/contact

Or someone may know of a better way. I also vote for showing up on his center's doorstep with a panicked look on your face. I know he wouldn't turn you away! Especially if your face is as cute as George's. ;)

HTH!!!

Jonezie
 
He does say this, but he also recognizes in some cases, the dog needs a different handler. I know he would never leave a dog in a home that put children in danger. I can remember a few episodes when he told the dog owner that their dog was not a good fit and they agreed to let him choose another dog for them.

I just finished reading Cesar's newest book, "How to Raise the Perfect Dog". He talks about the early development of a dog from birth to 9 weeks old and how crucial this stage is and why it is important to choose a reputable breeder, avoid puppy shop dogs (puppy mill dogs).
Georgie missed interaction with his litter mates and mother. This could lead to a lifetime of behavior problems that are extremely difficult to overcome.

Cynthia how funny. That was one of the first books I purchased before we even adopted Georgie. My copy is covered in sticky notes and highlighting. :eek: Yes I'm a book nerd. I'm an avid "It's Me or the Dog" and "Dog Whisperer" watcher and both Cesar and Victoria have said in some of their episodes that some dogs just require a different handler. We were worried about the whole interaction with his litter mates thing but the rescue told us that this happens a lot and that it was up to us to help him get through it. We even specifically asked if he was a good dog for a family with children and they said yes, . . his paperwork even said that he should go to a home with children as young as 5. I know that Cesar always says that dogs live in the "now" so I'm hoping that with more training we'll just get past this.
 
Kind of a summary: Most bites occur because people can't interpret their pets' postures and signals. People need to learn to read dog body language and take early signs of aggression seriously, especially when there are children in the home. Most dog bites occur when the dog is wagging his tail. This can mean excitement or arousal --not necessarily friendliness.
Phyllis, . . thanks, . .I thought about this too. I spent 2 days just watching him. Just carefully watching him. It seems as though he just wants attention but he does it by nipping. When I try to correct him it just escalades into dominance since he is strong and I don't think he knows his own strength I just end up bleeding. It goes way beyong mouthing. His jaws come snapping down. He spends all his time with me and only seems to bite me and my husband, mostly me (I'm a stay at home mom). He's actually really quite good with other dogs.
I'm thinking of just filiming him so I can really see if I'm just missing something. If something is triggering it.
Thanks again.
 
Cynthia you are right I am a first time puppy owner I trying. Really trying. My vet said to wait till he was six months for classes because his of his immunity but that is deffinitely going to happen. He'll be six months at the end of the month.

Janie,
Not to question your vet but generally puppies are allowed into group classes after they have completed their three rounds of puppy shots. Unless you are following an unusual or minimal vaccination protocol, the immunization issue should be minimal. If you had a less challenging puppy, I would say wait and follow your vet's recommendations. Since you don't, if he's over 3 months old and has all three rounds of his puppy shots and doesn't have preexisting health problems, I would suggest going ahead and taking him to a group class. My reasoning is that the risk of him losing his home for this behavior is higher than his risk of contracting something in puppy class. I have plenty of pups that start at 4 months.
Good luck!
Lisa
 
Janie,
Not to question your vet but generally puppies are allowed into group classes after they have completed their three rounds of puppy shots. Unless you are following an unusual or minimal vaccination protocol, the immunization issue should be minimal. If you had a less challenging puppy, I would say wait and follow your vet's recommendations. Since you don't, if he's over 3 months old and has all three rounds of his puppy shots and doesn't have preexisting health problems, I would suggest going ahead and taking him to a group class. My reasoning is that the risk of him losing his home for this behavior is higher than his risk of contracting something in puppy class. I have plenty of pups that start at 4 months.
Good luck!
Lisa

Lisa since you train puppies could you PM me with what I should look for in a puppy class with a puppy like mine? I'm willing to drive. He's okay with other dogs just, but he'll unpredictably lunge at some people just as he does with me.

By the way I actually agree with you and didn't really agree with the vet. He told me and my husband not to socialize him at all till he was 6 months to 1 year old and that the risk of infection was worse than the risk of having a non socialized puppy. I'm so glad we didn't listen to him and let him greet other dogs in town which we did only after his round worms passed. He does great with other dogs and loves to play. Oh I also switched vets recently. He's nearly six months old but I'm going to start asking around for puppy classes.

Lisa do you think it could be a medical thing with his unpredictable biting or maybe I'm just not seeing the signs? The other day I was just sitting on the sofa reading a book and he lunged and jumped and bit me in the breast, . .thank goodness for padded bras!!

Oh another good note, . . he lost 2 of his canine teeth this morning, . . I hate to say this but I'm sooooo glad. They were the teeth that seemed to cause the most damage.
 
The other day I was just sitting on the sofa reading a book and he lunged and jumped and bit me in the breast, . .thank goodness for padded bras!!


Your dog wants your attention and love. Be sure that you are not accidentally reinforcing his idea that he can get your attention by biting.

For instance, if you're playing with him and he bites, scream "Ouch!" and immediately walk away. Don't make eye contact or talk to him for about a minute. This will help him to learn that biting means you won't play with him.

After a minute (if he is in a calm state of mind), put your hand out (fingers curled under) for him to lick, and praise him.

Please try this.
 

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