Sicko

We were just notified that our health insurance is going up 40% in February and the copays and deductibles are going up as well. This is the fifth consecutive year that the premiums have increased. We live in NH and have some of the highest costs in the country. We are faced with either paying $1700 per month, or going uninsured, which isn't an option with our son's chronic illness. We used to live comfortably on one income five years ago, now we live paycheck to paycheck with two incomes. This insurance issue is going to be a major factor in who I vote for in the upcoming election. For those people who think Michael Moore is exaggerating, come and see my monthly copay expenses for medication and doctor treatments for our son. If my husband's company cannot find an alternative insurance, we will be face with an out of pocket expense of over $23,000 this coming year, and that's only considering the insurance and our son's treatment. God forbid if any of the rest of us get sick or injured.
x(
 
I can't keep quiet any longer. I hate to say it, but what you've just described sounds like an African country. That's the sort of thing you hear all the time about many of the poorest countries in Africa. It's shocking in a country that can spend so much on war.

Here in the UK our system is far from perfect. There can be long waits for certain (usually non-urgent) treatments, hospitals aren't always clean, staff are under an enormous amount of pressure. Certain parts of the health service are under strain, like care for the elderly or mental health services. BUT I don't have to worry about medical costs mounting should any of my family get ill, or having to fight an insurance company to pay out.

The saddest thing is that our current government is inviting many of the big American health-providers into the NHS to compete and provide basic services. If we're not careful, we're going to end up with an American-style service brought in through the back door.

One final thought, (apologies for the long post!), insurance companies are run for the benefit of shareholders not the insured. The less they have to pay out, the bigger the profits, the more money for the CEOs and shareholders. At least here, we have a system that isn't based on making money for investors.

Why is no-one campaigning about this?
 
Hi Vicki

I liked the movie. People can think about Michael Moore whatever they want but this was very well researched, well documented and a lot less politically charged than what he normally does.

If only a fraction of what he says is true, it is SCARY! I was really dumbfounded by the conversation of then President Nixon with Mr. Kaiser, and the very next day the announcement of the creation of HMOs.

The case about the little girl where the HMO said she couldn't be treated in the hospital where she was and her Mom had to drive her to the Kaiser Permanente Hospital and she died on the way, was just heart breaking. As were some of the other stories.

Overall it is a very eye-opening, really well done film. I think Michael Moore really did an outstanding job on this.

As to the fear of many people that taxes will increase and we'll turn into a socialist country if Universal Health Care is implemented, it's just mind boggeling, what a terrific job those HMO and Drug Company lobbyist do and how much money they spend to prevent any improvement in health care for people.

I think it depends on how Universal Health Care would be structured and implemented. It probably wouldn't effect our taxes much, especially if they cut other useless spending. It probably would only effect the profits of the HMOs and Drug Companies, but with 40 to 70 % profit gains every year for those and $ 3 Mio + $$ in yearly salary for their CEOs and higher level executive, I don't think they would be starving or go out of business.

Actually in Germany with a lot of added benefits (i.e. paid maternity leave, 6 weeks vacation .....) I paid less taxes than I pay here.

I am glad I watched the movie, it was well worth staying up late. Have a great day!
 
He's not off the mark in this one. My mom, a social worker with the dregs of society for 30 years had her job eliminated when she was 62, no one would hire her and she couldn't afford COBRA benefits and ended up on medicaid. When my grandmom died, who she took care of, she couldn't afford the taxes to stay in the house and came to live with us. Bush strangled the middle class by vetoing the bill that would've allowed people who earn up to 200,000 to buy into the federal benefits that they use in D.C, limiting to those who earn under 80,ooo, and draining the middle classes of most areas....

Canada does it well, not so much France, not really anywhere in Europe that I'd like to emulate.

Most medicaid dollars are spent keeping folks alive the last 3 weeks of life because we've become so insane about end of life.

And of course, we don't want impoverished teens having abortion, we want their parents, who are often still in their 20's or 30's (I worked in a NICU), to teach them abstinance, and they are reproducing kids with needs that take MILLIONS of dollars in care from birth throuch their lives....Sweeping generality I realize, but I live it daily.

I do not envy the nut who would want to take this on....
 
>
>Canada does it well, not so much France, not really anywhere
>in Europe that I'd like to emulate.

I am just curious about what is wrong about the way France and the rest of Europe handle their health care? And how is it different from what Canada does?
 
I've cared for lots of Canadiens and the system, with its flaws, seems to work better than ours....about waiting to see a specialist - go try and schedule an appointment here with a neurosurgeon - you wait here too!
France is taxed heavily and enables alot of nonsense...I lived there a year, strained my back and got physical therapy, herbal stuff, massage - when REALLY, ice and motrin would've done it! Its been abused and is killing them economically.....I thought the Italians did it pretty well, my then boyfriend told me, "you needa a dotore, you get one, you needs a GOOD doctore, you PAY".....

Drug costs, insurance companies, the public abusing the system, lawsuits, yadayada - its SOOO complicated, but that millions of Americans are UNDER insured is a crisis....if you are poor you're going to get care, if you are rich, you are going to get care, if your household earns 80- 250 a year - you're screwed with a major catastrophic illness....to stay afloat, hospitals WILL attach your property to get paid...

What this administration has done to the American way of life has only begun to show its repercussions - and I am a zealot for personal responsibility, not having kids you can't afford, a limit on welfare - I'm far from advocating entitlements,but Bush and his buddies make me sick....so does this Congress which has accomplished nothing. I think we need to vote everyone out of a job or make them give an annual report of accomplishments like the rest of the world!
 
How cool. I thought I was gonna pi$$ people off w/this (hence the carefully worded original post) but instead it turned into an informative, civil debate about health care (well, maybe not a debate b/c we all seem to be pretty much in agreement).

The only thing that really surprised me was that he didn't much address the cost of drugs. THAT'S what really kills me. Other than the scripts costing 5 cents in Cuba (OMG!) he didn't talk about the unbelievable profits pharmaceutical companies get. I'm a (fairly) young, healthy woman & my monthly medication expenses are about $1500. What will they be in 30 years? :eek:
 
As a Canadian I believe out healthcare is very good. I'm certain every country will treat a patient in emergency situations, however, in Canada we don't go home with a bill for thousands of dollars.

We sometimes have to wait longer for certain procedures which is a downside, and those that can afford it go to the states and pay for faster treatment. There is no option like that for us here because there are no private doctors.

I would rather wait and have the option of being tested rather than not having tests at all because I just couldnt afford it.
 
O.K. - I will be the partypooper. NOT trying to start a flamewar.

Michael Mooore (who is you look at him can tell he doesn't take the best care of himself) is one of the typical who goes by the mantra "Do as I say - not as I do"

Case in point - He owns a million dollar house on Torch Lake (rated one of the most beautiful lakes in the world in MI). The entire shoreline is protected. What does he do? Dredges out 100 ft of it up toward his house because he wanted a more beach look and feel. Totally screwed with the eco system of the shorline. Didn't tell anyone (Department of Natural Resources) he was doing it either. Pretty much thumbed his nose at them. NOW - imagine if one of us did that? He'd have his environmental finger in our faces.

I give no credit to anything that opportunistic pig says.

That being said - I think there are many problems with our healthcare system but he is NOT the expert to fix it. He rubs elbows with know commies and socialists. And I for one don't want to take another step toward socialism.

Baylian
 
He rubs
>elbows with know commies and socialists.

"commies"? Is your last name "McCarthy" by any chance?

There are plenty of benefits to some aspects of socialism in particular. Our Social Security system can be seen as a 'socialist' construct.
 
>France is taxed heavily and enables alot of nonsense...I lived
>there a year, strained my back and got physical therapy,
>herbal stuff, massage - when REALLY, ice and motrin would've
>done it!

I think there is a HUGE difference in how Europeans view treatment in oppose to the US. In most parts of Europe doctors provide more of a comprehensive/alternative care than here, meaning that prescription of drugs is done very hesitantly.

Like in your case, they rely much more on herbal treatments, massage ....., it's more taking care of the cause than masking the symptoms with pain killers, whereas here if you go to a regular doctor you get either ibuprofen or a prescription pain killers (different if you go to a chiropractor).

Although Motrin is sold over the counter, it still is a drug which can have significant side effects and cause long-term problems. I am not saying you are wrong, it's just a different view on things.

I know in France people pay a similar amount as Germans do for health insurance/care. Germany has one of the best health care systems in the world. Health insurance is not an option, it is mandatory. In most cases you can chose your health insurance company which will cover all medical necessities, including surgery, hospitalization, etc.

What is taken out of your salary is 15 % of your gross monthly income, 7.5 % is paid by the employer, 7.5 % is paid by you. There is a cap, if you make $ 5000 and more you pay a flat fee (7.5 % of $ 5,000) or you can chose private health insurance. So for someone who makes $ 5,000/month, their health insurance payment is $ 350, for someone who makes $ 1,000/month it is $ 75.

Compare this to what I pay for my PPO here at $ 388, I wouldn't consider 7.5 % "heavily taxed".

Long-term care insurance is mandatory, is 1.7 % of the gross income, again split by employee and employer, so for roughly $ 50 to 100/month you are covered. Compare it to what you pay here, I think it starts at around $ 300.

I know the European / German health care system is not perfect and it is abused by a few people but overall it works.
 
<<I give no credit to anything that opportunistic pig says.

<<That being said - I think there are many problems with our <<healthcare system but he is NOT the expert to fix it. He rubs <<elbows with know commies and socialists. And I for one don't want << to take another step toward socialism.



Nice choice of words!! Not!! I don't give any credit to people who call people names!

MM is not claiming he is trying to fix it, he is just pointing it out and raising awareness.
 
<commies and socialists>
ROFLMAO!
"But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao, You ain’t gonna make it with anyone anyhow...."
Not a fan of the New Deal, are ya?
 
Carola, I did not know that - Hell - then we ARE in worse shape then the French and Germans!!!!

As far as Michae Moore - he's radical, but he's bringing attention to the reality of our crisis....and you won't know it until someone you love or you gets a catastrophic debilitating illness....I hope that doesn't happen of course...but SOMETHING has to be done! The free market is Darwinian and presupposes a level playing field....Communism pre supposes everyone is for the common good - both sides of the spectrum fail to take human nature and its avarice, laziness, and irresponsibility into account, which is why neither extreme works well in a civilized society....Something HAS to be done!
 
><commies and socialists>
>ROFLMAO!
>"But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao, You ain’t
>gonna make it with anyone anyhow...."
>Not a fan of the New Deal, are ya?

Yeah ummm, interesting first (and hopefully LAST) post.
 
>Yeah, that whole "commies and socialists" thing was just
>weird.


Oh, you didn't know that? You are infiltrated by commies and socialists on this board. Be afraid, be VERY afraid and watch out for those Germans }(
 
I will agree that our health care system in the US is flawed - but I do believe it is in other countries. Lately, there has been a lot of talk about Universal Health Care and I for one am 110% against it. Those of you in Canada who have written about the long lines for surgeries is "something the US goverment has stirred up and in emergencies you will be able to have the surgery needed", must have not have had a life threating problem. Let me explain, a few years ago my family was in Canada for a convention and my dad, brother and two other co workers of ours were in a cab. They were hit by a drunk driver (who ended up killing her passanger) and caused the cab my family was in to spin multiple times and eventually land on its side. Everyone was rushed to the hospital - 2 went to one and the others went to another hospital. All of them were given a bed but only was given space in an actual emergency room - the rest were tended to in the halls because of overcrowded. Anyway - all 4 had broken bones, vertibraes, pelvis's, head truma and two had internal bleeding (my dad being on of them). All 4 were told that to have the surgeries needed to correct their injuries they would have to wait at least 5 days. So thankfully we called a family friend who was a dr and he said they all need to get into surgery ASAP before infections could set in. So we had all 4 of them helicoptered by a medical unit in NYC (we live in OH) from Canada to the US to have the surgery they needed - they were in surgery the next day and all doing well today.
I know people have touched upon the "free healthcare" that other countries have - but everyone knows that they are paying for it somewhere: whether it be in taxes, goods sold, paychecks, etc.
I have yet to hear a good plan by our elected officals, Michael Moore, or the person sitting next to me (!!!) that will make everyone in the US 100% happy. I for one - do not have the answer.
 
I don't know if it is just the Phoenix area, but I dread going to an emergency room. Your wait time there is normally 5 to 8 hours. People with serious injuries or ailments are "parked" in the hallways because there is no room.

Try and get an appointment with a surgeon here, even with health insurance, expect 4 to 12 weeks wait time. And then expect a co-pay of several thousand $$.

I have had probably 10 to 15 clients over the past 10 years who had to declare bankrupcy because of overwhelming medical bills, there is not one that I have seen that hasn't had a dingy on their credit report because of medical bills.

The health care system in the US is not flawed, it is broken! In other countries it is flawed but at least you get treatment and you don't have to file for bankrupcy because you can't pay the medical bill, or lose a loved one because the HMO refuses to pay for necessary treatment.

I don't know, maybe I am just naive, but why can't we implement mandatory health insurance, everyone who works has to pay a percentage of their income towards health insurance, employers have to split the cost with their employee. So the millions and millions of people who are without health insurance now will contribute to the big pool. Set up one not for profit government regulated health care insurance carrier and see how fast the other insurance companies will compete with that, they would have to, otherwise they'd be out of business. It's a very capitalistic approach, don't need to rub elbows with "commies and socialists".

It wouldn't cost the average person any more in health insurance than what they are currently paying and it would prevent people like one of the above posters having to pay $ 23,000 in out-of-pocket cost. They have those $ 20k available for spending, boosting the economy. More disposable income means more spending which will result in more business and therefore more people employed, resulting in more tax income for the government, a balanced budget, ergo tax cuts. Voila everyone wins :)

I really don't understand why people here don't go up in arms (figuratively :)) and force their elected officials to do something about this dilema! :)

Did I mention I am running for office :+ }( Just kidding!
 
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