should my puppy stay or go?

[janie1234]

Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do and live with the feelings of guilt because we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.

Hi there. Without a doubt I feel guilty and just down right unlucky. I come here and read the threads of other dog owners and see their avatars I can't but feel like I would love to have that relationship with a dog too. I felt like I did everything I was supposed to do. I searched for 8 months before getting a dog. Got doggie insurance, took him to the vet, got him groomed once a month, socialized him, exercised him, read every book I could read, talked to everyone I could talk to and last but not least came here and pestered the heck out of all you other pet owners for advice. I can't help but feel like there is still more I can do. Also my husband is crying buckets at the thought and I know he just does not want to do it so I'm tinkering with the thought of what I could do. I was hoping someone here would tell me that it is doable but the reality is that it just is not practical. The kids are down right scared of him. It is so frustrating because he has such other great qualities. I'm feeling really, really, low about this.

 

[pjlippert]

We had to get rid of a dog-aggressive dog - yellow Lab of all dogs!! We got her through a rescue and the couple we adopted her from LIED through their teeth to the Lab Rescue and to us. I was pregnant at the time and feared for my safety and my soon-to-join-the-family son. We lived in a condo with a floor to ceiling window right near the front door. One of our neighbors took his blind, deaf, arthritic dog for a walk and Maggie (the Lab) jumped through the screen to attack the poor geriatric dog!!!

We told the Rescue what had happened and they found Maggie a couple who lived in a rural area with coyotes, foxes, etc.. so they needed an aggressive dog to keep the critters out of their yard.

While Maggie was great with people, we were still concerned for our newborn.

In my opinion, I would NOT risk it with your family.

Good luck and hugs for needing to make a difficult decision!

Pam

 

[janiejoey]

Janie,

You tried so hard. This is the second time you posted about your beloved pet, but it sounds to me you have given him every opportunity and he just doesn't seem to be a match. It's OK to let him go. You've done everything in your power to keep him, but it is just not working out.

Janie

 

[fit44]

My heart is breaking for you and your family. I know this is not an easy decision for you. I'm really sad that your children are afraid of their dog. It really breaks my heart to read that.
Janie, the right dog will protect your children, and be kind, gentle, and patient with them.

 

[PhyllisG]

Did you mention some posts ago that you live in CA? I would definitely try to contact Cesar Milan. Agree or not agree with his methods at least give it a shot. Your story is so heartfelt and you are so involved with the welfare of your dog that just maybe he could help. Just a suggestion. Otherwise I think you really have to let go. You cannot live like this. I have lived with dogs my whole life and have 2 right now. I cannot imagine being in fear of them.

 

[Jonezie]

Did you mention some posts ago that you live in CA? I would definitely try to contact Cesar Milan. Agree or not agree with his methods at least give it a shot. Your story is so heartfelt and you are so involved with the welfare of your dog that just maybe he could help. Just a suggestion. Otherwise I think you really have to let go. You cannot live like this. I have lived with dogs my whole life and have 2 right now. I cannot imagine being in fear of them.

Janie...I rallied for Cesar Milan, too...when you posted a thread about this before. I think we even found the contact info for you if you wanna look back at that thread. If he couldn't solve the problem, I think George would be a dog he would LOVE to have at his center on a permanent basis. Just email your request for help with those gorgeous photos of that boy. He would be a perfect rehabilitation project to then go on shows with Cesar. He's so photogenic. I definitely think it's worth trying to contact him.

Jonezie

 

[fit44]

He's so photogenic. I definitely think it's worth trying to contact him.

I agree.

I own all of Cesar's past season episodes and tape the new episodes on my dvd-r. DH and I watch him a lot. We watched an episode with a red zone dog yesterday and we are completely amazed by Cesar's abilities.
DH mentioned something that I never gave any thought to....Not everyone has Cesar's ability to handle a red zone dog 24/7. The dog in this episode was scary aggressive and tried to attack Cesar several times. By the end of the episode, the dog was calm submissive. We were concerned about the owners keeping the dog. What happens when Cesar leaves? In all honesty, I would never trust a dog like that around my children.

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe in Cesar's methods to a point. I believe a dog is born with a temperament that is not always good for children. I know you can train a dog, but I don't believe you can change temperament. I don't know where the line of temperament and behavioral issues begin and end. I wonder how fine that line is?

 

[Havingfun]

I'd get rid of the dog and you should not feel bad about anything. Dogs like that take a certain type of situation to be kept and if it's not fitting in with your family and lifestyle why would you keep it? Dogs are supposed to be a positive addition to family life.

CM has a whole yard full of dogs that probably will never go back into a home setting.

I have to agree with some of the other posters and I just don't know if you ever can be 100% confident and trustful of a dog like that. Especially since it sounds like a temperament issue and not caused by the environment.

We tried to rescue a dog about a year ago and he bit my husband, my BIl, and my son. He too was a very dominant dog and turned on my son when he tried to get him off of my BIL. If it was just my husband and I here, I probably would have tried to keep him, but with kids and people coming in the house frequently, it just would have been very difficult; especially since I'm the alpha personality in the house and I work all day. I don't feel the least bit bad about it.

I hope that you haven't had such a bad experience that you won't pursue getting another dog. They are a great addition to family life and I'm sure there is a dog out there for you.

Tracy

 

[Jonezie]

Janie...I rallied for Cesar Milan, too...when you posted a thread about this before. I think we even found the contact info for you if you wanna look back at that thread. If he couldn't solve the problem, I think George would be a dog he would LOVE to have at his center on a permanent basis. Just email your request for help with those gorgeous photos of that boy. He would be a perfect rehabilitation project to then go on shows with Cesar. He's so photogenic. I definitely think it's worth trying to contact him.

Jonezie

Janie, does quoting my own earlier post qualify as annoying as speaking of yourself in third person? Like "Jonezie thinks you're asking the wrong question." With nothing but love for you and George, I DO think you're asking the wrong question. You know what you need to do. And feeling guilty isn't going to help you, your family, OR George. Since you asked our opinion, I'll tell you...I think you should channel 100% of the energy you're spending worrying if you're doing the right thing into finding the right home for George. There is a PERFECT place for him. Just as your family deserves the right canine companion, George deserves the right human companion. You are the ONLY one who can do this for him, and if you find the most perfect home for him, all guilt will be replaced with joy and happiness for him and his new life.

It may not be in your immediate area...it may be Cesar or someone else you are going to find at just the right moment.

As I told you before, I fostered a dog for a while that was just not the right fit for me (and I certainly wasn't the right fit for him). I went through a LONG process (3-4 weeks) of placing ads online and sending e-mails to anyone and everyone I could think of, interviewing potential candidates, many of which were NOT the right fit for him either, before picking up the phone and hearing his forever mom on the other end of the line. I knew she was the right fit. And he now lives the HAPPIEST dog life I've ever seen...plus I am his aunt and dogsitter emeritus. The best of both worlds for me. PS...I soon found the perfect dog for me, as well.

So...from one dog lover to another, I beg you...get past the guilt and questioning and put every ounce of energy into finding the perfect home for George. I promise it's out there! There is a person and place right now that is looking for (and can handle) a dog EXACTLY like George.

Jonezie (and Willoughby)

 

[janie1234]

I agree.

I own all of Cesar's past season episodes and tape the new episodes on my dvd-r. DH and I watch him a lot. We watched an episode with a red zone dog yesterday and we are completely amazed by Cesar's abilities.
DH mentioned something that I never gave any thought to....Not everyone has Cesar's ability to handle a red zone dog 24/7. The dog in this episode was scary aggressive and tried to attack Cesar several times. By the end of the episode, the dog was calm submissive. We were concerned about the owners keeping the dog. What happens when Cesar leaves? In all honesty, I would never trust a dog like that around my children.

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe in Cesar's methods to a point. I believe a dog is born with a temperament that is not always good for children. I know you can train a dog, but I don't believe you can change temperament. I don't know where the line of temperament and behavioral issues begin and end. I wonder how fine that line is?

Chynthia I own all of Cesar's episodes too. I watch him every Friday and while I'm sewing at home there will be an episode on.

This behaviorist we went to said exactly what you said. I probably should have paid you $500 for your opinion instead. I'm sure you would have given me a Cathe friends discount. He said that genetics plays a role and that there is not much we can do about it. He also likes Cesar Millan, . .but said that it would be interesting to see what happens after he leaves on an episode. I really liked this behavorist that we saw. He said that there is a home for Georgie just one without children and one with someone who knows how to handle agressive dominant dogs. That training is an ongoing thing. He even does a training course that follows the dog from the age of 3 months to one year for $2000.00 and when I asked if signing up for those classes would help he turned me down flat. Said that he could teach Georgie how to sit, stay, . . . and all that but I'll never remove the temprement and genetic disposition of the dog. I am so so sad. I just lost my mother in law 6 months ago and now I feel like I'm losing another friend.


Thanks everyone! I am so so sorry that I keep bugging everyone for advice. I wish I could send each and everyone of you a box of flowers. You have all been so great.

 

[janie1234]

Janie, does quoting my own earlier post qualify as annoying as speaking of yourself in third person? Like "Jonezie thinks you're asking the wrong question."
Jonezie (and Willoughby)

No way Jonezie!!! I think you are awesome and appreciate your advice. Hugs to you!

 

[mspina]

Hi there. Without a doubt I feel guilty and just down right unlucky. I come here and read the threads of other dog owners and see their avatars I can't but feel like I would love to have that relationship with a dog too. I felt like I did everything I was supposed to do. I searched for 8 months before getting a dog. Got doggie insurance, took him to the vet, got him groomed once a month, socialized him, exercised him, read every book I could read, talked to everyone I could talk to and last but not least came here and pestered the heck out of all you other pet owners for advice. I can't help but feel like there is still more I can do. Also my husband is crying buckets at the thought and I know he just does not want to do it so I'm tinkering with the thought of what I could do. I was hoping someone here would tell me that it is doable but the reality is that it just is not practical. The kids are down right scared of him. It is so frustrating because he has such other great qualities. I'm feeling really, really, low about this.

Oh, Janie - I haven't seen an update lately about Georgie so I was hoping that things were going well. I'm SO sorry....... And SO mad - not at you, but at the shelter who clearly didn't do a good job screening for you. You should have never gotten this dog in the first place, and they should have known it. ARGH.

The comment I bolded put it in perspective for me - I know it would be SO hard to do, but if your kids aren't loving the dog and are SCARED of him, well..... what's the point? Unless you really think that you can turn around his behavior, why have a dog that can't be a true family pet? While Eddie can be a total pain in the ass at times, there is no doubt that he is a part of our family and we all, kids included, absolutely, over the moon, love him. You and your family deserve that relationship, and it just doesn't sound like you'll get it with Georgie.

Would you think about getting another puppy if you re-home George? If so, I think I'd suggest picking a breed you think would work for your family (if you are looking for suggestions, I'd highly recommend a Springer!!!!!), look for a reputable breeder, and go from there.

Again, I'm so sorry to hear this. I know you have poured your heart into this pooch and it is a horrible decision for you. {{{{{HUGE}}}}}

 

[janie1234]

Would you think about getting another puppy if you re-home George? If so, I think I'd suggest picking a breed you think would work for your family (if you are looking for suggestions, I'd highly recommend a Springer!!!!!), look for a reputable breeder, and go from there.

Hi Mspina. The million dollar question. Would I get another dog? I don't know. The behaviorist said that we were just unlucky, and suggested what you said to go to a reputable breeder, . . . but I can't help but feel extremely aprehensive that this could happen again. We've had him for 5 months and that leaves an impression. We love him, . .a lot.

He bit my husband in the hand yesterday twice while trying to crate him. It drew blood. It is so sad to see my kids running into their room covering their heads with pillows crying and saying "Mommie please make Georgie stop."

We are taking him back today.

Thanks again everyone. Really thanks. I'm so sorry for all the months of pestering and PM's and taking up forum space. Your support really means a lot.

 

[Liann]

(((HUGS))) Janie. You are doing the right thing. With the kids that scared of him, there really are no other options. Hopefully, you can find a dog that fits with your family (they are out there, you really did just get a "bad apple"). I hate to think this experience would sour your kids towards dogs in the future.

 

[PhyllisG]

I am sorry Janie but you are making the right decision as painful as it might be. Rescue dogs can and are great dogs. We have 2 with no issues at all. It is making the choice that is best for you and your family. I really feel that there are rescue groups out there that can be very helpful with choosing a dog that would work for you. A purebred is not necessarily the answer. I have shared my life with many dogs, purebred included, and they too can have issues. Take your time, let things settle down and maybe you could ask one of the trainers/dog behaviorists help you to choose a dog. My other thought is that a herding dog is a good choice. We had had weimaraners for many years--hunters--and they are high energy with a real need to be out in the field. I find that hunters like to follow their noses while herding dogs are more likely to be concerned with what is going on at their place. All the best to you and your family. I understand what a hard choice you had to make.

 

[lov2bfit]

Janie, I have been reading your posts for awhile, and first off I just want to say how sorry I am that you are going through this. I also just wanted to share my own experience with you... When DH and I first starting dating we obtained two Rottweilers (Morgan and Brittany). We got them as puppies and raised them and they were both the sweetest babies. Brittany we had to put down at a very young age due to illness, which was heartbreaking. So, all we had was our Morgan. When I evenutally had my daughter we did everything we could to gently introduce her to Morgan. Morgan was very attached to DH and would get a little jealous about the attention he was giving our daughter, but she was never aggressive. We were always very careful about Morgan's behavior around the baby. One day though when our daughter was getting close to a year old and could walk and get around more she got near Morgan to pet her and Morgan growled and bared her teeth. This wasn't a playful growl, this was a "get away from me or I'm going to attack you" growl. Needless to say, the dog was gone within an hour. This was one of the most heart breaking things I have ever had to do in my life. I cried for days, but there was no way I was going to put my daugther in danger. This dog was a part of our family and we loved her, but it was too much of a risk.
Morgan went to another family where I'm sure she was loved and where the situation was better for her. It still makes me sad to think about it today, but sometimes we just have to do what we know is best, even if it breaks our heart.
I know you will do what is right. What a wonderful heart you have to do as much as you already have! My thoughts are with you.

Katie

 

[Gayle]

(((((Janie))))) My heart is just breaking for all of you.

I really feel that there are rescue groups out there that can be very helpful with choosing a dog that would work for you.

ITA with this. A lot of rescues utilize foster homes (SCBR does) that will home the dogs for a period of time and evaluate what kind of situations will/won't work for a particular dog. It's not a 100% guarantee of a perfect fit, but it can improve chances.

 

[lrayburn]

Janie,
I'm so sorry to hear that. Sending ((HUGS)) for both of you. You did everything you could for Georgie and your family.
Lisa

 

[lrayburn]

I second the idea of a rescue group that uses foster homes. Many people do not like the level of scrutiny that rescue groups can put an adoptive home through but they do it with the goal of making the best possible match for the dog and the family. It also gives you a safe place to return the dog if the match is not a good one. I would also recommend looking at an adult rescue who has been in his current foster home for at least several months.

As someone who is active in border collie rescue, I wouldn't recommend herding breeds in general. They have many fabulous qualities (I have three of my own) but I would not recommend them to someone with two children who has just dealt with bite problems. Their innate tendency to nip and try to control movement would be less than ideal for Janie's situation. That said, certain individuals of *any* breed may offer the appropriate temperment for Janie's home.

Lisa

 

[fit44]

(((hugs))) my heart is breaking for you too. I know this is an emotional decision, but it's the right one.

Okay, I have to mention my favorite breed. I think boxers make a great family dog. They LOVE their children and they are high energy. The downside is that you can't really run with them in the hot summer months. Bullmastiffs are boxers with lower energy. I've discovered a lot of the bullmastiff people own boxers too.