Protein- Why is it?

I'm hoping that someone can explain to me why there's such a heated debate over protein consumption, especially from bars and powders. Most fitness and bodybuilders use them, as well as many of the women on this forum, with bodies that are smokin' and have the "look" I'm going for- lean with great muscle definition.

People who eat "real" food seem to have a softer look. Not saying that's bad. I just seem to like that tight, leaner look. Every time I've eaten real food snacks, I don't look as defined. When I change over to having a bar or shake as one or two of the three snacks, I like what I see more. When my protein % is higher than my carbs % (be it from bars and powders or from real food) I look way better. So, why wouldn't I keep doing this? Eating this way also keeps me fuller. Since I've tried to up the carbs and lower the protein % as suggested by some on the forum, I've been battling horrible cravings.

Please no flames. I'm honestly just looking for some quality information/reasons here.
 
I don't have an answer for you. Just want to say that you should do what works for you. Only you know what your body responds best to and you know what "look" will make you happiest. :)

I have a hard time meeting my protein needs with all "real food" so I eat bars or drinks protein shakes on a daily basis for the most part. I have yet to see a negative affect from them so I see no reason to stop. I am sure you could over do it but I am very careful not to.
 
I realized a couple of months ago that the specific protein powder I was using was the reason why I was so gassy and bloated. Since I've switched to Jay Robb's protein powder and starting taking digestive enzymes, I've been much better.

It just seems like the people who tell me to switch have bodies that aren't similar to those I want. I really don't mean that to be rude, which is why I try to somewhat emulate the people who have bodies I admire are eating. It seems to be working for the ladies over at the Hardcore Check-In.
 
I realized a couple of months ago that the specific protein powder I was using was the reason why I was so gassy and bloated. Since I've switched to Jay Robb's protein powder and starting taking digestive enzymes, I've been much better.

It just seems like the people who tell me to switch have bodies that aren't similar to those I want. I really don't mean that to be rude, which is why I try to somewhat emulate the people who have bodies I admire are eating. It seems to be working for the ladies over at the Hardcore Check-In.

Hi -
Would you mind sharing which protein powder you were using, and also why Jay Robb's is better?? I am sorting out my own bloating issues, and would appreciate the info.:)

In my ever so humble opinion, to combat cravings eat the macro's that work for you, but increase your calories...if I remember right, you are eating 1400k a day, but you are aiming to build muscle and are at your desirable weight...is that right? Tom Venuto suggests to add calories slowly so as not to add unnecessary bulk/fat/water...something like 100-200 calories a day.

Thanks for in advance for the protein powder info.
 
Along with a few other fitness-related issues, this is a pain in the butt to try and figure out. Not only is the source of protein an issue, but how much is an issue too.

I've been weight training with Cathe for a year now and just finished Meso 1 of STS. I'm finally seeing some muscle, but I have no idea why it's showing up now instead of 6 months ago. I've been keeping track of my diet and exercise routine, so I have some theories, but I won't know until I experiment some more.

The biggest, most recent change involved giving up my soy protein shake for BSN's whey protein. Maybe that's it? Or is it STS specifically?

Now I'm experimenting with a lower daily protein intake, no dairy, and I may try a vegan protein powder. It'll be interesting to see how that turns out. (I hope I don't lose what I've gained so far!)

What makes this slightly more complicated is the issue of overall health. What if the supplements we take, and the amounts we ingest, actually hurt us in the long run? A hard body might not be worth the damage down the road.

I guess what I'm trying to say is...I'm struggling with this too. :)
 
I think this is so controversial for a number of reasons:

  • When the information is coming from a commercial source, such as a magazine, it can be difficult to determine what might be influencing that information. For instance, is the magazine sponsored by a supplements company, or does it even own a supplements company?
  • So much of the information that's out there is anecdotal, rather than based on objective studies that use strong research techniques (double blinds, etc) that can be replicated by others.
  • Protein is just one element in the mix- and the other elements are often just as controversial. Nutrition, different types of exercise, different ways of doing each exercise, body composition, genetics, etc. all have their influence and it is very hard to isolate one factor such as protein and say that "this is the reason I have this result"

For me, I seem to feel better, have more energy and feel stronger with more than 100g of protein each day, from different sources, including plant sources that complement each other. But that's me, and my body composition is different from yours, as is my genetic make up, workout routine and goals. There's no right answer, but paying attention to your body and how it responds when you make changes will help.
 
I'm hoping that someone can explain to me why there's such a heated debate over protein consumption, especially from bars and powders. Most fitness and bodybuilders use them, as well as many of the women on this forum, with bodies that are smokin' and have the "look" I'm going for- lean with great muscle definition.

People who eat "real" food seem to have a softer look. Not saying that's bad. I just seem to like that tight, leaner look. Every time I've eaten real food snacks, I don't look as defined. When I change over to having a bar or shake as one or two of the three snacks, I like what I see more. When my protein % is higher than my carbs % (be it from bars and powders or from real food) I look way better. So, why wouldn't I keep doing this? Eating this way also keeps me fuller. Since I've tried to up the carbs and lower the protein % as suggested by some on the forum, I've been battling horrible cravings.

Please no flames. I'm honestly just looking for some quality information/reasons here.

I think there is a distinct difference between looking healthy and actually being healthy. Many bodybuilders and athletes look as healthy as a horse but that is often accomplished by training and eating in a way that I think borders on abusing their body. Not to mention steroids and other performance enhancers.

Our bodies are not built for that high intake of protein aside from the fact that there is very clear evidence that animal protein, especially casein which is derived from cow's milk promotes cancer growth. In the book The China Study a well-known and well respected nutritional researcher from Cornell University, Dr. T. Colin Campbell conducted several experiments and studies which clearly indicated a link. Especially with casein, they were able to turn cancer growth on and off just by adding and eliminating casein.

Casein is in almost every protein powder or protein bar. Jay Robb's protein powder is one of the few that does not contain casein. Despite of the high quality of Jay Robb protein powder, the fact remains that it is a highly processed product and should not be the main staple in your diet. The problem with processed food is that it goes against the natural law of our body, our bodies can't recognize it. Therefore, it will only be partially digested and there is not much nutritional value leaving our body with cravings for actual food, phytonutrients, vitamins, enzymes, etc.

The recommendation for protein intake is 20 % of your daily intake. Protein in excessive amounts does put an enormous strain on your body and your kidneys in particular. That doesn't mean that if you take too much protein one day, one week or one month that you will drop dead. However, too much protein over a period of time will have a detrimental effect on your health. Does it for everyone? Probably not, there are also people who smoke for a lifetime and never develop cancer, COD, emphysema or heart disease.

I can tell you from my own experience that I was on relatively high amounts of dairy, protein powder and animal protein (although less than your currently are) when I started losing weight last year in the summer. The weight came off and then I was diagnosed with breast cancer. That thing had exploded onto my stystem like a bat out of hell. It grew at record speed. There is absolutely no doubt that my diet was the culprit for the aggressive growth.

Personally, I do not believe that eating high amounts of protein will promote muscle growth, I think the people who look the way you would like to look are probably genetically predisposed for that. Most of us, even if we down protein shakes exclusively and train several hours a day will probably never look like Cathe, not to imply that she doesn't work hard.
I think the key is to keep your overall health in mind and try to be the best you can be.

Just to let you know when I went on Atkins and SouthBeach many years ago, I had cravings to boot, so it really isn't true that high amounts of protein will control your cravings.
I have eliminated all dairy and meat except of fish and eat whole, plantbased foods, mostly raw and my cravings and binge eating are gone. I am going through a Slow and Heavy rotatation and 2 weeks into it I am clearly building muscle and losing body fat. Of course I still have some fat to lose but I am moving forward at a pretty good pace. My muscle tone and endurance now is much better than it was 10 or 15 years ago, even without ingesting excessive amounts of animal protein. Other than the fish, all of my protein comes from plant sources.

I agree with what someone said before, you need to do what works for you. However, the fact that you keep having the bloating and the cravings would indicate to me that something is not working and that you need to change things around.
I am not saying everyone needs to do what I do. My main focus is my health and being ripped doesn't necessarily mean that people are healthy. It doesn't mean that I don't try to be and look my best but I am happy were I am at and I know there always is room for improvement but I won't do it at the cost of my health.

That being said, you need to do whatever floats your boat.
 
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Janis- I'm not exactly sure why my bloating is much, much better. I think it's a combo of changing the protein powder (I was using Lean Dessert flavors) to the Jay Robb. I'm not sure what it is about the Jay Robb that agrees with me, but I'm not asking any questions. All I know is that the Lean Dessert doesn't, which stinks bec. that stuff tastes really good!

I also found out that certain protein bars don't like me. The Myoplex Lite and Kashi Go Lean Rolls- I can take those in moderation, such as only one or two a week, def. not daily like I was. The Pure Protein ones and the Clif Builder's Bar I can eat daily, although sometimes I don't. I always put 1/2 of the Jay Robb protein powder in my oatmeal, which I eat daily.

I also started taking peppermint oil and the digestive enzyme that contains all the enzymes to break down different things (protein, carbs, sugars...) I also drink peppermint tea in the afternoons. The tea helps with my stomach issues and my sweet cravings around 3:00.

I've had stomach issues for years, when I ate clean and when I didn't. The doctors tell me I have IBS, but after tons of tests, I think they just don't know what's wrong with me. What I do know is that after years of trying diff. things, this seems to work for me. I also have to drink a TON of water bec. I have constipation issues (prob. TMI for ya!) Coffee when I feel esp constipated always seems to get things moving. All of these things have helped with the bloating and gas. Good luck to you. I certainly know how frustrating it can be. I looked 6 months pregnant every day around 2-3, and it was the strangest thing since I've always been super lean in my ab/stomach area.

I agree with morningstar regrading the source of the info, esp. magazines. It's so freaking frustrating to find out what works for me, and the annoying thing is that it's different for EVERY SINGLE PERSON!! So, what works for someone with my bone structure, height, weight... might not work for me. Gosh.... being and staying healthy sure is a lot of work!!
 
Thanks for the info -

The pregnant look - that is me! Every afternoon, well I look 3 months pregnant, and normally I look like an ironing board, (warning TMI is coming) My sons have started making comments about the unlady like aroma that seems to follow me :eek: SO last night I googled egg whites....low and behold.....many people suffer from this. Damn. I like my egg whites. But it got me thinking that powdered egg white albumen of some sort might be in the protein drinks and bars that disagree with you. (and eggs whites alone - cause constipation)

I am using a pure whey protein by supplement direct....clean as a whistle...no stuff in it - no hidden sodium or sugars, which seems to be working so far.

As far as other stomach issues/IBS...I can't eat much fruit, and I avoid wheat and corn....dairy might be next.

I feel best with 40/40/20 ratio and all my cellulite (that life long friend :mad::rolleyes:) is finally disappearing.
 
That's too funny about the aroma. My husband told me the other morning that I was farting all night. I had decided to see if my beloved Lean Dess. protein powder could be added back in. Uh, nope! Guess I got my answer.

I've also noticed that egg whites aren't my friend. I can only eat around 5 eggs a day. I was eating that plus 3 hardboiled whites. That's 8 a day. Yeah, too much! I started eating grilled chicken when I would normally have those egg whites and that's helped.

I don't have a prob. with dairy or wheat. I cut those two things out when I first starting having stomach issues.
 
Q& A re: gaining lean muscle mass

QUESTION:

Hi Tom. I have your BURN THE FAT ebook; it's great thanks, but
now that I'm lean enough my aim is bodybuilding and muscle gain.
I read your information on body types in chapter 5 of your book
and it was very interesting. I am definitely an ectomorph body
type. I am getting good results gaining about 1 to 2 pounds a
week, but I'm pretty skinny so it's going to take a while to get
where I really want to be, but that's fine, I'm patient and
determined. My question is, can I use all the guidelines in
your BURN THE FAT ebook for gaining muscle mass?

Martin

ANSWER:

It's true that BURN THE FAT, FEED THE MUSCLE is primarily a
fat burning program and as you're reading through the book,
you'll see that the entire manual is written with references
to getting leaner.

However, with a few simple tweaks, the program can definitely
be used for gaining muscle. The primary adjustment would be an
increase in the calories.

To gain lean body mass, you need a calorie surplus. The reason most
people fail to gain lean muscle is that they're simply not eating
enough. Many times when they come off a fat loss program, they
are completely paranoid about "losing their abs."

Truthfully, it IS easy to lose them and it takes continued discipline
and dietary restraint, but the fact is, you just can't gain significant
amounts of muscle if you're afraid to eat more.

The trick in gaining lean muscle without fat gain is to select a
small calorie surplus. Overeating, even on clean, bodybuilding
foods is going to make you gain fat along with the muscle.

Gaining fat and muscle weight at the same time is commonly known as
"bulking up" and that's the old school approach to building muscle.
We don't want to do that. The whole idea is to Feed The Muscle and
build Lean body mass only.

Although BFFM is written with a fat loss slant, all the calorie
formulas are included in chapter 6, so you can figure out exactly how
many you need to lose, maintain, OR gain weight.

A typical male maintains on about 2700 calories per day and a
typical female at about 2100 calories, but it's good to plug your
stats into the formulas to individualize, and you need to recalibrate
calories anyways after you come off a long fat loss phase.

What I would recommend for lean gains is to add a 10-15% calorie
surplus on top of your maintenance level as your starting point. You
will probably need a second increase in calories after a few months
or after you've begun to add some lean mass in order to keep the
lean gains coming.

The only other major adjustments for gaining lean mass would be the
protein-carb-fat ratios (covered in detail in chapter 8) and of course,
the amount of cardio.

Weight gain programs require more carbs in the macronutrient mix and
less cardio. Endomorph types may need to keep 3 days of cardio in
the mix to avoid losing their abs. In some cases for ectomorph
"hard-gainer" body types, they should cut the cardio completely
during the muscle gain phase.

For the endomorph body type who tends to gain fat easily, I
recommend continuing to use a carb or calorie cycling method
even for the muscle gaining phase. The difference is in the
number of calories.

For fat loss, I typically recommend a carb cycle with a 20-30%
caloric deficit for 3 days, followed by one full day at maintenance
or even maintenance + 5-10%, with ALL the caloric increase coming
from carbs.

For lean muscle gain with out fat gain, I'd recommend a cycle with
3 days at a 15% surplus, followed by 3 days at maintenance or a
small caloric deficit of 5-10% below maintenance.

These are just guidelines. They are not written in stone. I have
seen all types of calorie cycling variations work for different
people. Any non-linear calorie approach is superior, in my opinion,
for keeping the gains lean.

All the other principles in BFFM, such as eating the "foods that burn"
fat and avoiding the "foods that turn to fat" apply as equally to
weight gain programs as they do to fat loss programs.

In fact, many BFFM "graduates" quickly reached their fat loss goal
using these techniques, and then with a few simple adjustments,
shifted into a "muscle-gaining phase." Same program, 1 change
in calorie levels.

Using the BFFM techniques for muscle mass gains, most people can expect
to gain 1/2 pound to 1 pound per week of lean body mass with no increase
in body fat, (1/2 to 3/4 of that for women).

It's not that hard to put on the first 10-12 pounds of lean muscle.
After that, gains tend to slow down a bit.

These types of gains can be achieved completely natural - and in
fact, natural is the only way I'd ever recommend you do muscle
gaining programs.

Train hard and expect success,
Tom Venuto, fat loss coach
 
Somatotypes and macronutrient ratios

Endomorph Body Type Secrets
Are You Eating Wrong For Your Body Type?

By Tom Venuto, Author of Burn The Fat

The three body types; Mesomorph, Endomorph, Ectomorph

If you're eating wrong for your body type, you may never reach your maximum potential. Are you an endomorph, mesomorph or ectomorph body type? If you're not sure, then this could be the reason your last diet failed, or why your results have fallen short of your expectations. To maximize the results of your diet, regardless of whether your goal is fat loss or muscle gain, you must adjust your diet according to your body type.

You inherited a certain body type, just as you inherited a certain hair, eye and skin color. When you look at how important genetics are in athletic, muscle building, fitness or fat loss endeavors, it may seem like the only guaranteed way to physical superiority or extreme levels of low body fat is to choose the right parents.

But even if you think that mother nature dealt you a bad hand, you can take consolation in the fact that success in fat loss is not determined purely by genetics. Most of the factors involved in burning fat are totally under your control. You can acheive fantastic results, regardless of your genetics, as long as you recognize and understand your body type and then adopt the proper nutrition and training strategies for YOUR genetics and not someone else's.

Super-Charging Your Results By Understanding Your "Somatotype"

In the 1930's and 1940's, Dr. william H Sheldon, a professor from Harvard, became engrossed in the study of human body types. As psychologist, it was Sheldon's main intention to find out how body types were related to temperments such as introversion and extroversion. As a part of his extensive research on the subject, Sheldon developed a three part classification system for body types known as SOMATOTYPING.

Sheldon identified three distinct body types:

1. The mesomorph

2. The Endomorph

3. The Ectomorph

The ectomorphs are the lean, skinny types, They are usually very thin and bony, with fast metabolisms and extremely low body fat.

The mesomorphs are the genetically gifted types who are lean, muscular and naturally athletic.

The endomorphs are the fat retainers. Endomorphs have a round body shape and large joints (they are "big boned") and they often have great difficulty losing body fat. There's a good chance that if you struggle with fat loss, you are an endomorph or you are at least partially endomorph.

The Plight of The Endomorph

Most people who are training hard but still struggling to lose body fat have an endomorph body type. An endomorph is someone who is genetically prone to store fat easily due to a slow metabolism. Endomorph body types are usually, but not always, large-framed with medium to large joints. If you're an endomorph and you mess up on your diet, the surplus calories are almost certain to go to fat. Even when you're in a caloric deficit, it seems like the fat goes down at a painfully slow rate.

Of all the three body types, the endomoph body type may seem the least desirable one to have if your goal is fat loss. It's frustrating sometimes. No matter what you do, it seems like you're at a disadvantage.

While there are genetically-influenced disadvantages to having the endomorph body type, the good news is that even if you're an endomorph you can burn fat and get as lean as you want to be. An endomorph body type is not "bad." There are no good or bad body types. Is your eye color good or bad? No, it simply is what it is. It's what you inherited.

There are countless examples of endomorphs who were once overweight or obese and who went on to become super lean. What they did was to simply understand their body type and adjust their nutrition and training accordingly. They understood that they couldn't copy someone else's diet and expect the same results unless that other person had the same type of body.

Metabolic characteristics of the Endomorph

The endomorph body type doesn't necessarily refer only to outward physical characteristics, although Sheldon's somtatotyping system originally referred to body structure alone. More recent advancements in body typing such as the Heath-Carter method, take into account internal (metabolic) characteristics as well.

From a metabolic perspective, the endomorph body type sometimes has varying degrees of carbohydrate sensitivity and insulin resistance. Pay close attention, because this is an important point. If someone is metabolically carbohydrate intolerant due to a genetic tendency, then high carbohydrate diets are not the preferred choice for fat loss goals as they will stimulate excess secretion of insulin and glucose will be partitioned into the fat cells more easily.

A nutrition strategy for the carb intolerant endomorph then is to immediately clip the processed and refined carbs from the diet, particularly white sugar and white flour products. These concentrated carbs will convert to body fat more rapidly in endomorphs. The best solution for the endomorph body type is a moderate carb diet as baseline, for example a 40-40-20 split of protein, carbs and fat. For those particularly carb sensitive, taking the dietary fats up to 30% may be even better, producing a 40-30-30 macronutrient split.

From the baseline diet, the endomorph must carefully watch body composition results and adjust the carbohydrate intake according to the results. For some endo's a further drop in carbs may be called for and in the extreme cases a small handful of them may find they are best of with a traditional ketogenic diet which is even lower in carbs and higher in fat.

An Individualized Approach to Nutrition is the Key!

The variation in body types must dictate the macronutrient split. This is one of the reaons that I provide a moderate carb, balanced diet, a semi-restricted carb diet and a low carb diet all as part of my Burn The Fat program. Burn The Fat is not one diet because one size does not fit all. It's three diets, each one designed to suit the goals and body type of each individual.

Another aspect of your diet to consider is the degree of compliance you must use. usually, I'd recommend a 90-10 rule, which means follow your diet strictly 90% of the time and then 10% of the time, eat whatever you want. Some genetically gifted mesomorphs and ectomorphs can seem to get away with being much more lax on their diets, with 80% compliance or even less and they never gain an ounce of fat. But the endomorph must follow a strict compliance rule. They can't seem to "get away" with frequent indiscretions without paying the price. If you're an endomorph this requires developing a high level of nutritional discipline and a strong desire to see improvements in your body. You gotta want it.

There are many other techniques an endomorph can use to radically increase the results of their fat loss program, including special alterations to the training program. Training is a lot like nutrition, if you train wrong for your body type, you get less than optimal results.

After reading these descrptions of the various body types, if you think you're an endomorph and if you'd like to learn more techniques to improve your fat loss results, then I invite you to visit the home page and learn more about my Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle program.

Burn the Fat, Feed The Muscle, also known as BFFM, is one of the few programs in the world that devotes attention to metabolic individuality and body typing for maximum results. In particular, you'll want to look at chapter 5 of BFFM, titled, Metabolic Individuality and Your Body type: Doing Your Best With What You've Got.
<center>Endomorph Body Type<center>


I know many people get frustrated with their less than optimal genetics, but I guarantee you, genetics are not a reason that you don't reach your goals. You only fall short of your goals if you fail to adjust your program according to your genetics.

Whatever you have, you have to make the most of it and you can do that by applying the BFFM techniques. They've worked for tens of thousands of others and they can work for you too. Learn more by visiting the Burn The Fat home page here: www.BurnTheFat.com

Sincerely,

Tom Venuto, Fat Loss Coach
 

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