Problems with neighbor/friend - need your opinion (sorry very long)

hiitdogs

hiitdogs

Cathlete
Kind of funny, I am asking your guys' opinion nowadays more than my friends :) I have a situation with my next-door neighbor / friend that is very unpleasant.

My next-door neighbor has been a friend of mine for many years and our kids are the same age and have been playing together since they were two months old (my oldest is 10 years old).
However, lately things have been very contentious. They have two dogs that are out of control. To make a long story short, one of the dogs seems to be a fear biter, she bit my older son in the hand a few months ago and then my younger son in the nose and this time she drew blood, he didn't need stiches or anything, but still. The other one hasn't bit yet, but I think it is just a matter of time.

Her husband was just laughing and saying, well, at least she just had her rabies shot. I didn't think it was very funny. The next day, I said to them, you know, I really think you need to get a dog trainer or pet behaviorist to make sure she doesn't bite anyone else. If she bites someone else you could have a law suit on your hands.

I still don't understand what was so terrible about what I said, but my neighbor/friend told my husband the next morning that she and her husband were so upset about what I said that they wouldn't come to my youngest son's birthday party two days later. Well, they didn't come and have been pouting ever since and that was mid August.

Last weekend her daughter knocked on our door, asking if my kids wanted to play outside. So I go outside, she still barely is talking to me. So I stand there like an idiot, my older son comes outside with his roller blades on - without a helmet. Before I can even open my mouth, she is already all over my son for not wearing a helmet (mind you I ALWAYS make my kids wear helmets when they ride their bikes or roller blade - and she knows it).

The next day she leaves me a message and says that her and I "need to have a little talk". I was out working and couldn't talk to her, so she called my husband telling him, it was much worse that I would let my kid roller blade without a helmet on than her dog biting my kids and she was going to stop by and tell me that. I just about fell out of my shoes - WTH????

Someone please tell me, what am I missing??? The interesting thing is, her and her husband are very good at dishing out and when I say something that they don't like, all hell breaks loose.

I just think they are very irresponsible about their dogs. They have two high-energy Australian Cattledogs, they rarely take them for a walk (if they walk it is for 10 to 15 minutes every couple of weeks), they never take them to the dog park and they have a 7,000 s.ft yard with a huge pool and a little grass patch. I really don't blame the dogs, they are bored out of their mind. Those poor dogs bark all day, get very destructive and start nipping at everyone. They also cornered one of their friends who was visiting them from out of town, when he was at the home by himself and he locked himself in the spare bedroom until my neighbors came back.

All of my friends (some know them, some don't) tell me, I should have reported the dog bite, at least the second one. I just wanted to give them the opportunity to correct the problem, but they are not doing diddly squat. Sometimes I think I should have reported the dog bit, at least then they would have a reason to be mad at me.

I hate this situation, especially since we live next door to each other. What do you do in a situation like that?

Thanks for listening!

Carola
 
Wow Carola! My word...now I am glad that my neighbors are an acre away. I honestly cannot think of one word of wisdom to offer. Maybe you should have a sitdown discussion. It may not get you anywhere if these people are so narrowminded and emotional. Do they not have a fence for their animals? Maybe you should suggest one if they don't. I know several areas of the country have implemented leash laws as well to keep animals and people safe. Good Luck to you!
 
Ditto everything Melissa said, and then some! Most communities take dog bites pretty seriously. I think you should report it after the fact so at least there is a record.

Honestly, if they think it is funny that their dogs have bitten your children twice, how good of friends could they be? Their reaction is bizarre, to say the least.

No advice really, it's a tough one. Just wanted to say you are not in the wrong at all!

Sparrow


Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming ‘Wow - what a ride!’ — Peter Sage
 
First of all, it's unacceptable for a dog to bite. I would be MORTIFIED if my dog bit anyone, and would immediately consult with a trainer. They sound like extremely irresponsible dog owners. A breed like that needs serious exercise... at least an hour walk a dog, as well as supervised socialization. It's really a shame. Is it too late to sit down with her and have a good talk about the situation? If she's a reasonable person, she must understand that having a biting dog in a real problem, especially in this litigious society in which we live. Maybe if you approach it from that point of view.
 
RE: Problems with neighbor/friend - need your opinion (...

I think that your neighbor/friend needs to get a grip.

I have two dogs whom I adore and quiet honestly they ARE my kids.

One is very sweet, loves everyone (adults, kids, other dogs) without reservation. She has never in her life even thought to bite someone.

Then there is dog #2. Bailey is also super sweet... to me, DH and my mom. That is it! She is truly afraid of her own shadoww but to those who don't know her she seems mean and agressive. The fact that she is part rotweiler doesn't help.

Bailey bit my niece once about a year ago. Thank God DN was walking away so all Bailey got was the pocket of her shorts. That one time was enough for me. While I adore her and would NEVER get rid of her I do take steps to make sure she doesn't bite someone and really do some damage. She has a large crate and will lock her in it or put her in the back yard away from company.

I think you were totally in the right with what you said to neighbor and if she can't see that then she is an idiot. She is very lucky she has not been reported by anyone. Does she realize that her dog could be put down for biting someone? and yes, a lawsuit is a VERY REAL possibility.

If this is how she is regarding your kids then I say you don't need her. It must be hard because you live near her too but honestly I think I would not miss that friendship.

I would not let it affect the kids if you can help it. Let them play together but don't let your kids over there around the dog unsupervised.

I am sorry this turned out so long. I'm not even sure I have helped any. :)
 
Yeah, we do have a 7 foot block fence but the dog jumped the fence while my son was talking to the neighbor's daughter and bit him. She also jumped the 7 foot fence and ended up in my backyard.

I am just really at my wits end. I can't even go in my backyard without their dogs going ballistic, not to mention I can't even cut my trees that are right by the fence because I am afraid if I let her out of my sight she'll attack me while I am cutting the trees and bushes. Mind you, I have 4 dogs myself and in general I am not afraid of dogs.
I am pretty sure I know what is going on with the dog and how to take care of this but they take every word I say about their dogs as a personal attack. They have had the dog for 1.5 years and it just has gotten progressively worse.

I don't want to insult them or escalate this but I am really worried about my kids. I think you hit the nail on the head that they are emotional about this.

Thanks for your kind words.

Carola
 
RE: Problems with neighbor/friend - need your opinion (...

Carola- I would definitely report the bite! Granted it's after the fact, but at least it will be reported.

Now, for her wanting to talk to you....I would really have a hard time not letting my inner sarcasm beast let loose!!! Something to the tune of ..."I know that you wanted to talk to me about my son no wearing a helmet while roller blading. Thank you *so* much for worrying about the welfare of my son, now I have a few dog bites to report to the authorities!!!"}( }( }( ( I know that doesn't help, but it may make you feel better!)
 
People who seem incapable of accepting criticism, especially when deserved, always do this: they take the dictum "the best defence is a great offence" to heart. In the case of your neighbours, they are clearly in the wrong, and clearly refuse to accept that. I would not let them get away with it, neither would I let them make me into the bad guy here.

It is childish, irresponsible and not at all "friendly." If a dog of mine, and I would never own a dog, ever bit anyone else, I would be incredibly worried. The onus would be on me to ensure the child was OK, that no rabies shots or tetanus were required and to pay for them if they were, in addition to paying any bills that ensue for medical treatment, and I would apologize profusely and then make sure my dogs never ever did it again.

I am really sick of people who refuse to take responsibility for their own errors.

If either of your neighbours' dogs ever menaces your child again, you must report it to the police. Period. They will take up your complaint for you. No, it will not make for friendly chats over the fence with said neighbours, but you are there to look after your kids and as far as i can see, the neighbours have already burned their bridges. At least, with me they would have.

I think it is OK for your children tp play together still, but I would require that it be on my terms. They can play at my house, but not at the neighbours' house ever again, or on neutral territory but not when the dogs are in sight.

Actually, considering what you say about how your neighbours treat their dogs, you should go ahead and make a complaint to the police anyway because the dogs are being ill-treated and the risk of further injuries to others in the future is great.

Stand up to the bullies and do not back down on this issue. I think the time to be nice is over.

Clare
 
Hi Carola,

This is my first post to the forum. I read with interest your problem with the neighbours Australian Cattledogs (Aussies refer to them as "blue heelers"). My husband and I run a dairy farm, so I have experience with working dogs, which the blue heeler definately is. Blue heelers are primarily used for working with cattle, and for providing "force" ie they are quite an aggressive worker and rather notorious for biting. They are usually very loyal and faithful companions to their owners and make excellent guard dogs. I would imagine that the dogs owned by your neighbours must be bored out of their brains, as exercising and dog training them is a must. The blue heeler is a marvellous working dog, but that is what they were bred for - working, not being locked up with inadequate exercise and training. I would advise your children to be wary around them, as it sounds like they are not getting the education they need from their owners. I hope this post doesn't scare you or come across as too "preachy", but our working dogs are part of our family and I get really annoyed about irresponsible pet owners.
 
Hi Carola,

I agree with the other posters and have also had some childhood experiences with these dogs. I found their enthusiasm a bit aggressive when I was young. My uncles had 3 of these dogs at their farm when I was growing up. I think you should report the bite, but I also think (and I am not excusing her actions), that your comment about a potential lawsuit probably put her on the defensive and startled her. She probably took it as a threat and was shocked that an old friend would say something like that - even if you weren't actually thinking of lodging a lawsuit. I can also understand why you would find the dog owner's comment about how they have rabies shots dismissive of the real problem. I am just extrapolating and may be wrong, but that's how it would sound to me. What are the consequences of reporting a bite? My cousins had a cocker spaniel puppy that had to be put down after it bit the leg of a mailman - which was very upsetting to them as they were kids. Even though the puppy wasn't a threat. I sometimes think that the local response to this can be very black and white, but not always, it depends on where you live. Clearly, these dogs need to be taken care of better. I would do whatever you think will motivate the owners (as you know them best) to take better care of their dogs so they aren't as aggressive. If that's reporting the bite, so be it.
 
Carola--
Since these folks live next door, and aren't going anywhere, I have a thought, for what it's worth:

--You Said: "The next day, I said to them, you know, I really think you need to get a dog trainer or pet behaviorist to make sure she doesn't bite anyone else. If she bites someone else you could have a law suit on your hands."

It may be they took this as you saying that you might sue them and then they are defensive, now, like "hey, we didn't do anything that bad -- it was an accident.." while letting your kid rollerblade without a helmet was something you did "on purpose." All ridiculous, in my view...but here's what I'm thinking:

Maybe you should have asked them to apologize to your kid/couching it as apologize to your kid, not to you for the "Accident." Get them to empathize with what went wrong. They may feel ashamed now and try to lash out at you -- and worse, lash out at your kid, which is bad.

You could take the high road and say: "Maybe I didn't handle the whole dog bite thing as well as I might of because I was so upset to see my child in pain, but I'm wondering if in a few days when we all get some distance, if we can talk -- for the sake of the kids?"

Ok -- just my thoughts here I don't think you did ANYTHING wrong. Your kid was hurt and that is what is upsetting here that they didn't respond in a humane way to a child being injured, but it might be getting "discussed" through the dog's behavior, rather than getting you neighbors to simply be kind about an accidental biting. Then maybe they can think through how with their dogs, etc, it is an accidenet waiting to happen?

HTH,
Barb:)
 
Just chiming in to agree with what everyone else has said, and lend you more support to take some action. I think you may just have to put the friendship aside and think about the safety of your kids and everyone else on the block. As difficult as it may be, the friendship is not the priority here.
-Nancy
 
Well, if it were me I would definitely sit down w/her & have a heart to heart before this situation deteriorates any further. You guys live next door to each other & it's best that you find some way to get along. Sometimes a good shouting match between friends can clear the air & help you start fresh. And I agree that the mention of a lawsuit might have triggered her nastiness. I'm not blaming you--you just never know what might set someone off.

If that doesn't work, you have to report the dogs to your local animal control office. Where I live, 2 dog bites constitutes a vicious dog & by law the dog would be put down. In fact, maybe you could get a copy of your local ordinance to have on hand when you talk to her, just in case things don't go very smoothly. Perhaps the threat of having one of her dogs put down will force her to do something about it.

But the bottom line is, unless one of you plans to move, you'll have to deal w/her for a long time to come. I definitely recommend that you try to find some kind of resolution w/her face to face.

Besides, it would be really sad if you lost a friend, & if your kids weren't comfortable playing together.
 
RE: Problems with neighbor/friend - need your opinion (...

Hi,

I have not read the rest of the responses, because I have to go attend to my kiddos, but I don't understand why you want to be friends with this woman. I'd just let the friendship go, as awkward as it might be and keep those dogs away from your kids and visa/versa.

If those dogs bite someone else, not only might your neighbors be looking at a law suit, but possible some sort of criminal prosecution as well. The biting dog might even be put down, which would be too bad, considering the owners don't sound to concientious (spelling?)

Anyway, I'm sure the other ladies will give you some good advice and perspective on this matter. I know that neighbor issues can be touchy and if you report the dogs, it sounds like your neighbors might be vindictive, but you'd know that better than anyone else. I think that reporting biting dogs would be the right thing to do though. It might protect someone else, but it also might cause more trouble for you in the sort term. What a dilemma!

Best of luck in deciding what to do and keep us posted.

Maggie:)
 
RE: Problems with neighbor/friend - need your opinion (...

in addition to everyone elses comments above, I just wanted to add that you should work on getting that fence up to par also. At least so the dogs cant get over anymore after this issue youre dealing with now hopefully gets resolved. Sounds like it would do everyone in the neighborhood a favor. :)

PS- I'm surprised their dogs havent gone after your dogs too
 
RE: Problems with neighbor/friend - need your opinion (...

You guys are just wonderful, I LOVE this forum, thanks for being so supportive.

I spoke to my neighbor this morning and unfortunately it seems to be leading nowhere which is a real shame. She does not understand that it is not the dog bite that aggrevates me, it is their reaction to it. She just comes up with all kinds of excuses, putting the blame basically back on me and my 7-year-old, here we are 5 weeks later and we still get blamed and nothing changes, the dogs are not enrolled in obedience class, no dog behaviorist, nothing.
Oh, I almost forgot, she told me that they are "talking to the dog" when she does something wrong and "let her know that she is not supposed to do this" - I am sure the dog can understand, maybe it has an English PhD - ridiculous, the dog is a dog and not human, they don't understand our explanations. They just tell the dog not to do something and then pet here, very effective indeed - NOT!

I guess I have to agree with what a lot of you said, that I don't need a friendship like this.

I am really torn about reporting the dog bite because obviously I don't want to pour oil in the fire and I would think the living on this block would be quite unpleasant, to say the least.
On the other hand, since they have a pool, they always have some of her daughter's class mates over and the dogs are outside, going crazy and nipping at the kids when they get in and out the pool. I just don't want another kid to be bit.
But then again the dog bite laws here are pretty black and white, I would like for the dog to get help and not be put down, but the dog being put down after two bites is a real possibility.

My older dogs are pretty lazy couch potatoes, so they don't go out in the yard, but if I take my dogs outside to the car or for a walk and my neighbor's dogs are upfront, they will attack my two older dogs. Scooter, my Aussie is fine with them, he has accompanied me over there and they are playing. Don't know about my other Aussie, we've only had him since mid August and as you know, we haven't been socializing much with our neighbors since mid August }( }(

We just won't go over there anymore, period. You are right! Who needs these kinds of friends? We are planning to move sometime next year anyway, so here is my motivation to save up faster for the downpayment - gotta look on the bright side, right??;)

Thanks everyone for your kind words. It was very helpful, I already started doubting myself.

I hope you guys have a great day!

Carola
 
Maybe instead of calling the police, you could call your local humane society and ask for their help. They may be able to talk to your neighbor about the potential dangers they are ignoring, and maybe she'll listen better to a third party. Sometimes the authorities can help in a mediation kind of way, as opposed to just reporting to them. HTH!
 
I didn't read all the responses but this affects something IMPORTANT they may not have thought of.....

I am an insurance professional - so I know a bit about liability issues - they have a major liability suit waiting to happen.

Stand your ground. I would go up to her front porch and say the following....

"Look we have been friends for a long time and our children are also friends, I didn't mean to jeapordize that. I did not mean to offend you so deeply - I am just concerned that other people may not find it ok to have their children bitten by a dog and thought I would mention that in passing. It has nothing to do with how you trained your dog or any of that, but the fact is that your dog has bitten my children twice and some people might find that a great opportunity to sue you for something like that - I just didn't want to see that happen and really its not ok that they bite my children either, but thank goodness it wasn't horrible."

If she EVEN mentions the helmet incident - let her know promptly that unless your parenting skills put her children at risk than she should keep those comments to herself. There is no comparison between the two.

Also if her home insurance company found out about the two dog bites - they probably would not hesitate to put a rider on their home insurance policy or cancel it altogether - its an unacceptable risk. They need to put a fence up.

On the other hand - I have a German Sheppard dog who would not hesitate to bite a stranger if they crossed onto our property and she didn't know them or thought we or herself were in danger, which is why at our last house we chose a wooden fence and at our new house we will be putting up a PVC Vinyl fence vs the ornamental that she can still get her mouth through. Is she a mean dog?? NO - she is loyal and TERRIFIC with our nieces and nephews and other kids she knows - even when they jump on her back, put duck tape around her nose, dress her up, you get the picture, she is a wonderful pet - - but its not a risk I am willing to take to let her nip at other children or people for that matter -


HOpe this helps.......
 
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