Our employees are SO RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!

Laura, is this Canada we're talking about? (just read your profile)<edit> Is this the state government you're talking about? If not, what branch of the US Govt do you work for? After President Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers, civil service unions haven't had a whole lot of clout in the US.

In the US Govt, civil service involvement in Unions is optional as we have no closed shops. People in the bargaining unit have the choice not to pay dues and still receive representation, in fact the union has to represent non-memebers

My union will not pay for an individuals court fees, lawyer etc. We have a grievance arbitration system, if bargaining unit members want to go outside the system they do so on their own.

I work for the US Post Office. For the most part people are promoted from within. I've worked for some excellent bosses and I've worked for some that would do anything to screw with people. The term "going postal" and our legend for violent employees didn't come because management was warm and fuzzy.
 
Laura, is this Canada we're talking about? (just read your profile)<edit> Is this the state government you're talking about? If not, what branch of the US Govt do you work for? After President Reagan fired the striking air traffic controllers, civil service unions haven't had a whole lot of clout in the US.

In the US Govt, civil service involvement in Unions is optional as we have no closed shops. People in the bargaining unit have the choice not to pay dues and still receive representation, in fact the union has to represent non-memebers

My union will not pay for an individuals court fees, lawyer etc. We have a grievance arbitration system, if bargaining unit members want to go outside the system they do so on their own.

I work for the US Post Office. For the most part people are promoted from within. I've worked for some excellent bosses and I've worked for some that would do anything to screw with people. The term "going postal" and our legend for violent employees didn't come because management was warm and fuzzy.
 
I worked for state government for a time, and oh, the stories!

Laura, I'm with ya on the union thing! A management level employee could never get away with the things the union employees do. Ask me about the narcoleptic prison guard, or the guy who got a disability because he 'didn't like his co-workers and this caused him stress' or the one who sprayed THEMSELF in the eye with windex and put in a WC claim, or the woman who was written up for 'noticeably not wearing any undergarments' (It was 'noticeable' because she also had her skirt tucked into her neckline)...I could go on, but you get the point. These were all defended by the union when it came time to discipline.

<sigh> Sometimes I miss the comic relief, but for the most part, I'm glad to be out of it...
 
I worked for state government for a time, and oh, the stories!

Laura, I'm with ya on the union thing! A management level employee could never get away with the things the union employees do. Ask me about the narcoleptic prison guard, or the guy who got a disability because he 'didn't like his co-workers and this caused him stress' or the one who sprayed THEMSELF in the eye with windex and put in a WC claim, or the woman who was written up for 'noticeably not wearing any undergarments' (It was 'noticeable' because she also had her skirt tucked into her neckline)...I could go on, but you get the point. These were all defended by the union when it came time to discipline.

<sigh> Sometimes I miss the comic relief, but for the most part, I'm glad to be out of it...
 
Government Employees, Unions and Management

I see quite a bit of slurs, opinions, valid cases and stupidity here. I am recently retired from a Government job after 25 years. I was neither lazy or ever lax in the performance of my job. I frankly resent quite a bit about what is being said here about union and government employees. I was at work by 6:30 am every morning and worked many weekends on projects with deadlines. I was a union member until I was promoted to management and then of course, I was no longer elegible. I've seen the kind of rediculous claims stated here but I worked with 3500 employees. I am curious; how many of the negative responders worked with 3500 employees or more? I am quite distressed about union/government employees being grouped into the negative base that is being represented here.

By the way, my husband was a Teamster for 35 years. He also worked from 6:00 am until whenever every day. He reported a serious problem with his truck two times. After the second report, his arm was injured (shoulder, cuff and bicep)and required surgery. The third time, the problem on his truck tie-downs was still not resolved and he was injured again. He is now disabled.
 
Government Employees, Unions and Management

I see quite a bit of slurs, opinions, valid cases and stupidity here. I am recently retired from a Government job after 25 years. I was neither lazy or ever lax in the performance of my job. I frankly resent quite a bit about what is being said here about union and government employees. I was at work by 6:30 am every morning and worked many weekends on projects with deadlines. I was a union member until I was promoted to management and then of course, I was no longer elegible. I've seen the kind of rediculous claims stated here but I worked with 3500 employees. I am curious; how many of the negative responders worked with 3500 employees or more? I am quite distressed about union/government employees being grouped into the negative base that is being represented here.

By the way, my husband was a Teamster for 35 years. He also worked from 6:00 am until whenever every day. He reported a serious problem with his truck two times. After the second report, his arm was injured (shoulder, cuff and bicep)and required surgery. The third time, the problem on his truck tie-downs was still not resolved and he was injured again. He is now disabled.
 
RE: Government Employees, Unions and Management

My, this is a touchy subject!

While I completely understand LauraMax's and others' frustration, I agree with Donnamarie and Dave in that there is really no need to paint all union members/civil servants/government workers with the same brush.

I have been proud to serve as a police officer (and union member) for the past 21 years. My immigrant grandfathers and greatgrandfathers endured horrible working conditions and had to literally fight for basic human rights in their respective workplaces. I will be forever thankful for their sacrifices and struggles that have resulted in my expectation that I will be treated the way that every worker should be treated: fairly. I think it is irrefutable that unions would never had developed if there was not a clear need for them.

In my experience, those who milk the system are few and far between. The majority of us are hardworking types such as donnamarie and her husband, and my co-workers, a number of whom have given their lives in the line of duty.

I am now in a management position within the police department I work for, so I have seen both sides of the story. It is my experience that problem people are permitted to remain problem people because those in management are not doing their jobs properly. Unions or not.

:)
 
RE: Government Employees, Unions and Management

My, this is a touchy subject!

While I completely understand LauraMax's and others' frustration, I agree with Donnamarie and Dave in that there is really no need to paint all union members/civil servants/government workers with the same brush.

I have been proud to serve as a police officer (and union member) for the past 21 years. My immigrant grandfathers and greatgrandfathers endured horrible working conditions and had to literally fight for basic human rights in their respective workplaces. I will be forever thankful for their sacrifices and struggles that have resulted in my expectation that I will be treated the way that every worker should be treated: fairly. I think it is irrefutable that unions would never had developed if there was not a clear need for them.

In my experience, those who milk the system are few and far between. The majority of us are hardworking types such as donnamarie and her husband, and my co-workers, a number of whom have given their lives in the line of duty.

I am now in a management position within the police department I work for, so I have seen both sides of the story. It is my experience that problem people are permitted to remain problem people because those in management are not doing their jobs properly. Unions or not.

:)
 
Not going to repeat my dh...

I'm not going to repeat what my union card carrying dh responded when he heard me read this thread aloud. LOL I'm am thankful that dh is in the union where he is getting paid a living wage, benefits and a pension. You know those fire protection sprinkler systems in those government buildings where you work, my dh or one of his union brothers most likely installed those.

My dh is FAR from lazy. Everyone who works with him tells me he's one of the best and hardest workers in the trade. He has a good reputation in his local. I'm proud of his work ethic. He doesn't do it because he loves his job. He does it because he loves his family. He could get laid off anytime. The union can't help him out if a company doesn't want to keep him or if another company doesn't want to hire him. This happened to his former roommate. Unless there's a boom in construction, this guy can't get hired because of his work ethic despite the fact that his father was the business agent for the union.

My brother-in-law works in construction also. He is not in the union, does not receive any benefits or pension. After working for the same company for almost 15 years, he makes close to what my dh brings home (net, not gross). I have no idea how he is going to support his family when his body wears out. Construction is not kind to the body or older workers.

I don't know if you are aware of this. Union and non-union companies bid on the same jobs for close to the same amount of money. Unless it's a government job, non-union companies don't pay their workers the same amount of money a union company would. Instead, they pocket it for themselves. Happens to my brother-in-law all the time.

Not all unions are the same. Not all government employees or union workers lazy. Not all unions have outlived their usefulness.

Stepping off my soapbox now...
 
Not going to repeat my dh...

I'm not going to repeat what my union card carrying dh responded when he heard me read this thread aloud. LOL I'm am thankful that dh is in the union where he is getting paid a living wage, benefits and a pension. You know those fire protection sprinkler systems in those government buildings where you work, my dh or one of his union brothers most likely installed those.

My dh is FAR from lazy. Everyone who works with him tells me he's one of the best and hardest workers in the trade. He has a good reputation in his local. I'm proud of his work ethic. He doesn't do it because he loves his job. He does it because he loves his family. He could get laid off anytime. The union can't help him out if a company doesn't want to keep him or if another company doesn't want to hire him. This happened to his former roommate. Unless there's a boom in construction, this guy can't get hired because of his work ethic despite the fact that his father was the business agent for the union.

My brother-in-law works in construction also. He is not in the union, does not receive any benefits or pension. After working for the same company for almost 15 years, he makes close to what my dh brings home (net, not gross). I have no idea how he is going to support his family when his body wears out. Construction is not kind to the body or older workers.

I don't know if you are aware of this. Union and non-union companies bid on the same jobs for close to the same amount of money. Unless it's a government job, non-union companies don't pay their workers the same amount of money a union company would. Instead, they pocket it for themselves. Happens to my brother-in-law all the time.

Not all unions are the same. Not all government employees or union workers lazy. Not all unions have outlived their usefulness.

Stepping off my soapbox now...
 
>Laura, is this Canada we're talking about? (just read your
>profile)<edit> Is this the state government you're talking
>about? If not, what branch of the US Govt do you work for?
>After President Reagan fired the striking air traffic
>controllers, civil service unions haven't had a whole lot of
>clout in the US.
>
>In the US Govt, civil service involvement in Unions is
>optional as we have no closed shops. People in the bargaining
>unit have the choice not to pay dues and still receive
>representation, in fact the union has to represent
>non-memebers
>
>My union will not pay for an individuals court fees, lawyer
>etc. We have a grievance arbitration system, if bargaining
>unit members want to go outside the system they do so on their
>own.
>
>I work for the US Post Office. For the most part people are
>promoted from within. I've worked for some excellent bosses
>and I've worked for some that would do anything to screw with
>people. The term "going postal" and our legend for violent
>employees didn't come because management was warm and fuzzy.

It's municipal govmt in NJ. Unions are very powerful in NJ--a great example is the state legislature just placed a 2.5% cap on municipal budgets, while the state DOP has mandated a 4.25% increase for union employees--salaries being 75% of our budget, the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous & impossible.

Now, when I was in VA it was a totally different story. VA is a right to work state & the unions had no leverage at all. I had no idea how fortunate I was in knowing I could expect people to actually do their jobs or lose them.
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

OK, maybe I wasn't clear enough & I apologize to those union workers who do work hard & take pride in their jobs. While I stand by my position that unions have outlived their usefulness (let's face it, they were created to address absolutely abominable working conditions mostly for women & children), I will say we have some wonderful employees here who I appreciate a great deal.

The problem is, there is no incentive for an employee to work hard (other than pride in one's work) when they know that they will get the same salary increase as the person sitting next to them, that disciplinary actions are extremely difficult if not impossible, and that they cannot be terminated no matter how bad their job performance is.

It's very hard to work in management but essentially have our hands tied when it comes to bad employees.
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

Laura,

I think your experience with unions and my families (husband, father, step-mother) are very different. While that may be true in the union and people you work with, it's not that way for each and every person or union.

My dh's incentive isn't about more money. He won't be offered overtime/doubletime work if he's a slacker though. (Although, he probably wouldn't be getting paid doubletime for the same type of hours if he were non-union too.) He wouldn't be offered the company van and credit card either. (They do a lot of driving.) Another incentive is that in his line of work, men get laid off; especially in the winter. It would be very easy for a company to lay off a person and never hire them back which is essentially firing them.

I also believe that he would have a good work ethic if he weren't in the union. His work ethic isn't influenced to a noticeable extent by outside factors. It comes from who he is. It's his character, not an union issue.
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

Well, this is also another example of union vs. non-union. I don't make overtime & I work far more hours than pretty much every other employee here. I average 50 hours a week. I have to work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday & tonight this week, but I have to be in at 9:00 am every day b/c I have this nutty receptionist documenting my time in & out (of course she's not here at night so she has no idea the hours I work). I do not get comp time. When I drive for work I have to use my own car & I get reimbursed $.34 per mile.

Also, civil service/government unions are much different than private industry unions. Under the federal government's Davis Bacon law, someone who, say, drives a truck cannot perform any other work duties. So, for example, a truck driver can drive a crew to a job site, & then pretty much has to sit around all day, whether he wants to or not, waiting to drive them back. I've had to deal w/this several times w/municipal projects that were receiving federal funding.

This isn't really about money, it's about people working the system. I've been here for five years & there are two employees who've been out on worker's comp for more time than they've actually worked. I'd been here 1 1/2 years before I'd even met one of them, & the first thing he asked me was "what does a person have to do to get a raise around here?" My instinct was to say "ummmm, work for at least one year straight" but you know what? I know if I said that out loud it would be documented for use in a potential future lawsuit.
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

>Also, civil service/government unions are much different than
>private industry unions. Under the federal government's Davis
>Bacon law, someone who, say, drives a truck cannot perform any
>other work duties. So, for example, a truck driver can drive
>a crew to a job site, & then pretty much has to sit around all
>day, whether he wants to or not, waiting to drive them back.
>I've had to deal w/this several times w/municipal projects
>that were receiving federal funding.

So, if this law applys to government workers, it looks like bad management. It would be poor management and profit-losing if it were a non-government job managing this way too.

>This isn't really about money, it's about people working the
>system.

Oh, I was responding to the part in your previous post about incentives for salary increases.

I've been here for five years & there are two
>employees who've been out on worker's comp for more time than
>they've actually worked. I'd been here 1 1/2 years before I'd
>even met one of them, & the first thing he asked me was "what
>does a person have to do to get a raise around here?" My
>instinct was to say "ummmm, work for at least one year
>straight" but you know what? I know if I said that out loud
>it would be documented for use in a potential future lawsuit.

Laura, I can really sympathize with your frustration. It would kill me to have to watch what I say! LOL It does sound like a horrible work environment. I hope you have a better than normal day! :)
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

I'm not going to say this to dis you Laura, but your municipality has a management problem. It's probably at a much higher level than your office. They are afraid of being sued, so they will roll over anytime someone mentions it. If you are an initial level manager I can imagine that it would extremely frustrating.

I had to represent an employee through a disciplinary issue. There was friction between him and his boss. This friction pre dated their employment together. The boss's case fell apart prior to arbitration because he built it on very poor documentation, the bias was present. The boss later received training on how to document HR issues and he eventually encouraged this person to move on/out. The employee was a problem, but there was no physical record of counseling or trying to change the employee.

As far as union employees on pay scales having no incentive to do a better job. Besides the employees own personal work ethic. Most employers have a bonus program or incentive award program they can use. Plus if the employee ever entertains a promotion into management his/her record will be reviewed, it will need to be competitive (unless there is favoritism in management selection.)

It sounds like the leadership of your municipality has let the horse drive the cart. Its going to take a strong Mayor/manager to turn that around. They will have to bring in legal help to train all of the supervisors on how to document attendance/performance etc. With the documentation then its up a judge, mediator or worse a jury. If the municipality faced a case or two instead of folding and running then the BS cases would evaporate. If I were a citizen of that municipality I'd be screaming for someone's head.

I hope it gets better for you, you have found yourself between a rock and a hard place.
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

Well said Dave. Who the heck hires these people????

Laura...I was actually hoping to find another drunk secretary story!
Amber
 
RE: Not going to repeat my dh...

I hope to read very soon that LauraMax has quit that miserable job and found something she likes.
 
I think you have a great screen play. That would have been a great Sinfeild episode.(Did I spell that right?)Or the next forty year old virgin movie. Why is she writing everyones comings and goings? Weird.
 
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