OK, my drunk secretary just had an "accident"
- Thread starter LauraMax
- Start date
amberwaves
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
No offense Laura, but your boss is #1- a co-dependent and #2 a complete and total idiot!! I would be incapable of working with these people because my mouth is too big...and I have no hesitation when it comes to doing what I feel is right. They should both be fired, and I would stop at nothing until they were. JMHO
Good luck with that one, maybe you should sic minnie mouser on the prick of a boss...Oh but, he might sit on her!!
Hopefully the ER nurses will realize she is a "drug seeker" with multiple substance abuse problems and document it for workers compensation.
Amber
No offense Laura, but your boss is #1- a co-dependent and #2 a complete and total idiot!! I would be incapable of working with these people because my mouth is too big...and I have no hesitation when it comes to doing what I feel is right. They should both be fired, and I would stop at nothing until they were. JMHO
Good luck with that one, maybe you should sic minnie mouser on the prick of a boss...Oh but, he might sit on her!!
Hopefully the ER nurses will realize she is a "drug seeker" with multiple substance abuse problems and document it for workers compensation.
Amber
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
The good side of me says.....
I agree with the above poster about getting her professional help. She obviously needs it . . .
Do an anonymous gesture and start dropping off brochures on AA, that way she cannot get embarassed by having people ask her about getting help. If she doesn't get that hint - than I don't know what you could do...
The bad side of me says....
IGNORE HER COMPLETELY.
DON"T EVEN TALK TO HER OR EVEN LOOK AT HER. PRETEND SHE DOESN"T EXIST, and document everything. She is not going to remember a thing you say or ask her to do anyways, so why bother.
Geesh - not sure which side wins, the good or bad.
The good side of me says.....
I agree with the above poster about getting her professional help. She obviously needs it . . .
Do an anonymous gesture and start dropping off brochures on AA, that way she cannot get embarassed by having people ask her about getting help. If she doesn't get that hint - than I don't know what you could do...
The bad side of me says....
IGNORE HER COMPLETELY.
DON"T EVEN TALK TO HER OR EVEN LOOK AT HER. PRETEND SHE DOESN"T EXIST, and document everything. She is not going to remember a thing you say or ask her to do anyways, so why bother.
Geesh - not sure which side wins, the good or bad.
amberwaves
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Janie...you are so sweet!!!! would you be my mom?????? I just love how sensitive and caring you are!!! The other side of that opinion is this...
...I would say about 90% of the time, addicts have to hit bottom...sometimes more than once before they have the ability to get clean. And, the vast majority of them relapse within the first 6 months of sobriety...meaning they then have to hit bottom again! She needs to lose her job...etc...that is part of the cycle, part of hitting bottom, part of realizing there is a problem.
Amber
Janie...you are so sweet!!!! would you be my mom?????? I just love how sensitive and caring you are!!! The other side of that opinion is this...
...I would say about 90% of the time, addicts have to hit bottom...sometimes more than once before they have the ability to get clean. And, the vast majority of them relapse within the first 6 months of sobriety...meaning they then have to hit bottom again! She needs to lose her job...etc...that is part of the cycle, part of hitting bottom, part of realizing there is a problem.
Amber
LauraMax
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Reba, that's pretty much what I'm doing. Other than helping her when I can I have to leave her alone, mostly b/c I can't understand most of what she says.
Amber, thanks for the support and understanding, you have no idea how many times those thoughts have run thru my head. Keep your fingers crossed the elections go the way they should.
Janie, you are an awesome woman & a good soul, thanks for your thoughts.
Reba, that's pretty much what I'm doing. Other than helping her when I can I have to leave her alone, mostly b/c I can't understand most of what she says.
Amber, thanks for the support and understanding, you have no idea how many times those thoughts have run thru my head. Keep your fingers crossed the elections go the way they should.
Janie, you are an awesome woman & a good soul, thanks for your thoughts.
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Well, I think alcoholism is an addiction not a disease. Lots of people have diseases and there is nothing they can do about it but manage it. An alcoholic has a choice. LauraMax, I can sympathize with you. I don't deal with an employee but my stepdaughter's mother who abuses drugs and alcohol. It is heart breaking and infuriating at the same time. One minute I want to help her (but it's not my place, she resents the very air that I breathe), the next minute I want to throw the book at her. Does your secretary drive to work? It does sound like she's abusing drugs. My stepdaughter's mom (let's use SDM for short) will have severly slurred speech as quickly as one hour after she's gotten home from work. I know that's not just from alcohol. Sometimes, when my husband has had to call her in the morning, she's answered the phone with very slurred speech and obviously can't think clearly or understand what is being said to her then she'll call back several hours later and sound fine. It's very bizarre. If your secretary is driving, I would call the police when she leaves. She is endangering lives if she's driving. Isn't there someone higher than your boss that you could go to? She needs to be held accountable or she is never going to seek help. I read your previous post about her but I don't remember, have you sat her down and layed down the law? Your boss is enabling her. I work by myself most of the time but I can just see my boss coming in and me sitting here intoxicated. That would never fly. I couldn't imagine being that brazen. Please keep us posted on what happens with this.
Take care,
Ashley
Well, I think alcoholism is an addiction not a disease. Lots of people have diseases and there is nothing they can do about it but manage it. An alcoholic has a choice. LauraMax, I can sympathize with you. I don't deal with an employee but my stepdaughter's mother who abuses drugs and alcohol. It is heart breaking and infuriating at the same time. One minute I want to help her (but it's not my place, she resents the very air that I breathe), the next minute I want to throw the book at her. Does your secretary drive to work? It does sound like she's abusing drugs. My stepdaughter's mom (let's use SDM for short) will have severly slurred speech as quickly as one hour after she's gotten home from work. I know that's not just from alcohol. Sometimes, when my husband has had to call her in the morning, she's answered the phone with very slurred speech and obviously can't think clearly or understand what is being said to her then she'll call back several hours later and sound fine. It's very bizarre. If your secretary is driving, I would call the police when she leaves. She is endangering lives if she's driving. Isn't there someone higher than your boss that you could go to? She needs to be held accountable or she is never going to seek help. I read your previous post about her but I don't remember, have you sat her down and layed down the law? Your boss is enabling her. I work by myself most of the time but I can just see my boss coming in and me sitting here intoxicated. That would never fly. I couldn't imagine being that brazen. Please keep us posted on what happens with this.
Take care,
Ashley
janiejoey
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Hi Amber,
Your too kind.
That's what intervention is about. It brings the bottom up very quickly (usually the same day) to allow the person to get help. Safe and sound and now. Yes they sometime relaps, but again, the institution she would go to would address this to her. It is a work in progress, and doeable.
Hopefully no one will enable her anymore, so that the cycle can at least be broken. It's such a sad situation, but not hopeless.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
Hi Amber,
Your too kind.
That's what intervention is about. It brings the bottom up very quickly (usually the same day) to allow the person to get help. Safe and sound and now. Yes they sometime relaps, but again, the institution she would go to would address this to her. It is a work in progress, and doeable.
Hopefully no one will enable her anymore, so that the cycle can at least be broken. It's such a sad situation, but not hopeless.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
janiejoey
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Hi Ashley,
Your right, there is a question on if it is a disease. But the point is, is that it is treatable. In order to be able to manage it though, she needs to know that she is an alcoholic/addict. Right now she is in denial. Through intervention she will find out all the necessary information to get help, then she can chose to do the right thing for herself. They( help from intervention) will even drive her to an institution right then and there. She can begin to heal.
I just hope she will get the help she needs and deserves. This is such a big issue for me, sorry I couldn't leave it alone. But I think I said everything I could, to help.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
Hi Ashley,
Your right, there is a question on if it is a disease. But the point is, is that it is treatable. In order to be able to manage it though, she needs to know that she is an alcoholic/addict. Right now she is in denial. Through intervention she will find out all the necessary information to get help, then she can chose to do the right thing for herself. They( help from intervention) will even drive her to an institution right then and there. She can begin to heal.
I just hope she will get the help she needs and deserves. This is such a big issue for me, sorry I couldn't leave it alone. But I think I said everything I could, to help.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
desertbriez
Banned
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
is she getting in a vehicle and DRIVING to the doctor? i think you'd better stop her! can you be held liable for allowing her to get in a vehicle?
wow..... don't konw what else to say? do you have an HRO department you can contact?
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cute work out clothes are good for AT LEAST an additional 10-15 calories burned!
is she getting in a vehicle and DRIVING to the doctor? i think you'd better stop her! can you be held liable for allowing her to get in a vehicle?
wow..... don't konw what else to say? do you have an HRO department you can contact?
-------------
cute work out clothes are good for AT LEAST an additional 10-15 calories burned!
desertbriez
Banned
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
>She allegedly was pulling out the top drawer & it tipped
>over.
>
>I think the problem is more prescription meds than alcohol.
>There's a definite difference in her speech after lunch, & I
>was pretty surprised she was in this condition so early in the
>day.
>
>Interesting theory about addiction & a possible attempt to get
>more drugs. I hadn't even thought of it but it's a definite
>possibility.
>
>You know, the sad thing is if she were pulled over by the
>police they'd let her go b/c of her position w/the town.
>
>I started an e-file on her last week. I just got off the
>phone w/the town attny & he told me I should be sending all my
>documentation to my boss. I told him my boss didn't want
>them. He told me if my boss didn't want to see the
>documentation I should stop documenting b/c it could get one
>of us in trouble in the future (i.e. why is Laura documenting
>things w/o her boss's knowledge). It's utter stupidity--he's
>just protecting my boss b/c if something happens I'll have the
>documentation that would prove we knew there was a problem but
>did nothing. I told my boss I'd be doing it & he said fine.
>So he knows, & the town attny is trying to protect him, not
>me. I guess he thinks I'm stupid. x(
ok.... another "wow".... i take it you work for the city? so a government position... there HAS to be something you can do??? (and i'd keep documenting... cuz if it comes down to you or your boss getting in trouble over this gal... your documentation may save YOUR job!
-------------
cute work out clothes are good for AT LEAST an additional 10-15 calories burned!
>She allegedly was pulling out the top drawer & it tipped
>over.
>
>I think the problem is more prescription meds than alcohol.
>There's a definite difference in her speech after lunch, & I
>was pretty surprised she was in this condition so early in the
>day.
>
>Interesting theory about addiction & a possible attempt to get
>more drugs. I hadn't even thought of it but it's a definite
>possibility.
>
>You know, the sad thing is if she were pulled over by the
>police they'd let her go b/c of her position w/the town.
>
>I started an e-file on her last week. I just got off the
>phone w/the town attny & he told me I should be sending all my
>documentation to my boss. I told him my boss didn't want
>them. He told me if my boss didn't want to see the
>documentation I should stop documenting b/c it could get one
>of us in trouble in the future (i.e. why is Laura documenting
>things w/o her boss's knowledge). It's utter stupidity--he's
>just protecting my boss b/c if something happens I'll have the
>documentation that would prove we knew there was a problem but
>did nothing. I told my boss I'd be doing it & he said fine.
>So he knows, & the town attny is trying to protect him, not
>me. I guess he thinks I'm stupid. x(
ok.... another "wow".... i take it you work for the city? so a government position... there HAS to be something you can do??? (and i'd keep documenting... cuz if it comes down to you or your boss getting in trouble over this gal... your documentation may save YOUR job!
-------------
cute work out clothes are good for AT LEAST an additional 10-15 calories burned!
desertbriez
Banned
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
>I am HR! LOL! My boss & I are responsible for all personnel
>issues here with input from the town clerk b/c she's
>responsible for our insurance.
>
ok.... i haven't been reading ahead before posting!
WHAT A NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------
cute work out clothes are good for AT LEAST an additional 10-15 calories burned!
>I am HR! LOL! My boss & I are responsible for all personnel
>issues here with input from the town clerk b/c she's
>responsible for our insurance.
>
ok.... i haven't been reading ahead before posting!
WHAT A NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-------------
cute work out clothes are good for AT LEAST an additional 10-15 calories burned!
janiejoey
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Sorry Folks,
It is me AGAIN. I just want to give an analogy, so that I might help this poor woman, and you LauraMax. I wish I could let this go, but I feel compelled to continue on with this subject. Please forgive me everyone, here is my analogy:
If there was a car accident, and you see a person inside that is struggling to get out, and couldn't, would you not try to help that person?
This person is screaming out obscenities, is rude, panicing and not knowing she is stuck. Still, wouldn't you try to do something? Would you just continue watching her scream and struggle, knowing all the while, that all that needed to be done was release the seat belt? Would you let someone else do it for you?
I know, people are probably saying, let her family help her out with the problems she has. It's none of my business.......
It's not going away unless someone can step up to the plate and do something about it. I hope someone has enough courage in that office to try to help.
I'm not a miss goody two shoe. I have my moments with people that I'm not proud of. But I try really hard to put things in perspective.
I hope for the best.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
Sorry Folks,
It is me AGAIN. I just want to give an analogy, so that I might help this poor woman, and you LauraMax. I wish I could let this go, but I feel compelled to continue on with this subject. Please forgive me everyone, here is my analogy:
If there was a car accident, and you see a person inside that is struggling to get out, and couldn't, would you not try to help that person?
This person is screaming out obscenities, is rude, panicing and not knowing she is stuck. Still, wouldn't you try to do something? Would you just continue watching her scream and struggle, knowing all the while, that all that needed to be done was release the seat belt? Would you let someone else do it for you?
I know, people are probably saying, let her family help her out with the problems she has. It's none of my business.......
It's not going away unless someone can step up to the plate and do something about it. I hope someone has enough courage in that office to try to help.
I'm not a miss goody two shoe. I have my moments with people that I'm not proud of. But I try really hard to put things in perspective.
I hope for the best.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
debbydarestobefit
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
I agree with Janie very much. If this were any other type of condition, concern, illness, disease (whatever you want to call it) people would be concerned and encouraging her to go to the doctor and get some help. BUT, this is addiction and there is so much stigma attached to addictions that we're embarrassed to address it or we think it's not our business. If something like this isn't our business than we should also refrain from discussing people's cancer treatments, diabetes, high cholesterol, pregnancies, weight loss, fitness gains, etc. Talking about it shows concern, just as for any other condition. And addressing it, even if she rebukes you, could possibly save her life. An intervention is one options. Call your EAP and discuss what can be done. And if an intervention (even as simple as providing her with AA literature and a list of meetings) isn't opted for, then at the very least anonymously call the police whenever she leaves the office and you believe her to be intoxicated. Sometimes it takes legal intervention to save a life. Best wishes, Deb
I agree with Janie very much. If this were any other type of condition, concern, illness, disease (whatever you want to call it) people would be concerned and encouraging her to go to the doctor and get some help. BUT, this is addiction and there is so much stigma attached to addictions that we're embarrassed to address it or we think it's not our business. If something like this isn't our business than we should also refrain from discussing people's cancer treatments, diabetes, high cholesterol, pregnancies, weight loss, fitness gains, etc. Talking about it shows concern, just as for any other condition. And addressing it, even if she rebukes you, could possibly save her life. An intervention is one options. Call your EAP and discuss what can be done. And if an intervention (even as simple as providing her with AA literature and a list of meetings) isn't opted for, then at the very least anonymously call the police whenever she leaves the office and you believe her to be intoxicated. Sometimes it takes legal intervention to save a life. Best wishes, Deb
janiejoey
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Thank you Deb,
I thought I was alone in this, and being too obbessed about it. You have said what I wanted to convey perfectly. Now I know I can sleep tonight.
I think I high-jacked this thread. Sorry about that.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
Thank you Deb,
I thought I was alone in this, and being too obbessed about it. You have said what I wanted to convey perfectly. Now I know I can sleep tonight.
I think I high-jacked this thread. Sorry about that.
Janie
The idea is to die young as late as possible.
http://www.picturetrail.com/janiejoey
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
I feel sorry that you have to deal with this. I would still call the police if she is driving. She could kill someone!! I don't care if she works for the city. I would hope the police would have enough common sense to realize she is a menace. Maybe if they have to pull her over a couple of times, some thing would happen. Hopefully they would require her to go to some type of rehab. Do you know a police officer in town?
I wish you the best in this horrible situation.
Jen
I feel sorry that you have to deal with this. I would still call the police if she is driving. She could kill someone!! I don't care if she works for the city. I would hope the police would have enough common sense to realize she is a menace. Maybe if they have to pull her over a couple of times, some thing would happen. Hopefully they would require her to go to some type of rehab. Do you know a police officer in town?
I wish you the best in this horrible situation.
Jen
andtckrtoo
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
I'm just disturbed by the idea that addiction is all about choice. It's not. If it were easy to give up addictions, then we would have many fewer smokers, alcoholics, and drug addicts. I think addiction is like lung and liver cancer. The prevailing attitude is "Oh well, it's your fault - you deal with it." I don't think our understanding of addiction and how to handle someone who is addicted have changed much since the dark ages. You mostly have the people who are recovering alcoholics helping those who have been forced to rock bottom (hopefully through someone kind enough to perform an intervention).
I know people who have problems with certain foods and their reactions to them. Migranes, stomach issues, rashes... They KNOW they have these problems, yet many I know will eat these certain foods. If they cannot stay away from foods, even knowing the consequences, who are we to judge someone who physically craves something and gives in to that craving?
Now whether that intervention should come from LauraMax or not, is a seperate question. Honestly, I don't think she is the right person, especially if her boss would flip. I'd be more likely to try to talk to a family member or someone close to the family. Not mention alcoholism or anything, but if she's on pain medication, I would mention that I am very worried as the pain medication seems to be too strong and that she is acting oddly at work. That will take the blame off of her and allow people a way to address the problem without confrontation.
I'm just disturbed by the idea that addiction is all about choice. It's not. If it were easy to give up addictions, then we would have many fewer smokers, alcoholics, and drug addicts. I think addiction is like lung and liver cancer. The prevailing attitude is "Oh well, it's your fault - you deal with it." I don't think our understanding of addiction and how to handle someone who is addicted have changed much since the dark ages. You mostly have the people who are recovering alcoholics helping those who have been forced to rock bottom (hopefully through someone kind enough to perform an intervention).
I know people who have problems with certain foods and their reactions to them. Migranes, stomach issues, rashes... They KNOW they have these problems, yet many I know will eat these certain foods. If they cannot stay away from foods, even knowing the consequences, who are we to judge someone who physically craves something and gives in to that craving?
Now whether that intervention should come from LauraMax or not, is a seperate question. Honestly, I don't think she is the right person, especially if her boss would flip. I'd be more likely to try to talk to a family member or someone close to the family. Not mention alcoholism or anything, but if she's on pain medication, I would mention that I am very worried as the pain medication seems to be too strong and that she is acting oddly at work. That will take the blame off of her and allow people a way to address the problem without confrontation.
kristan
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
I am an attorney and defend employers/insurers/governmental bodies/etc in work comp claims and here is my opinion: I'm sorry she's an addict, but she's defrauding her employer as well as taxpayers (your town is probably self insured with a 3rd party TPA) if she's staging injuries. She should be drug/alcohol screened at the ER/clinic and benefits denied/reduced accordingly per your state statute. She ruins the system for honest people injured on the job.
Good luck and keep a good paper file. K
I am an attorney and defend employers/insurers/governmental bodies/etc in work comp claims and here is my opinion: I'm sorry she's an addict, but she's defrauding her employer as well as taxpayers (your town is probably self insured with a 3rd party TPA) if she's staging injuries. She should be drug/alcohol screened at the ER/clinic and benefits denied/reduced accordingly per your state statute. She ruins the system for honest people injured on the job.
Good luck and keep a good paper file. K
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Hello LauraMax.
There are two issues that are coming out to me. First, your secretary , who should be fired for not doing her job. And, second, a Boss that is ignoring the issue. Not good leadership on his part for your office or the taxpayers. Keeping up the documentation on both of them is worthwhile. And, possibly, the only way to see the light of the tunnel is for you to stand up and take action. This woman needs help, and there may be more going in on her life than anyone knows about. Hang in there, be strong, and know you have support here.
Hello LauraMax.
There are two issues that are coming out to me. First, your secretary , who should be fired for not doing her job. And, second, a Boss that is ignoring the issue. Not good leadership on his part for your office or the taxpayers. Keeping up the documentation on both of them is worthwhile. And, possibly, the only way to see the light of the tunnel is for you to stand up and take action. This woman needs help, and there may be more going in on her life than anyone knows about. Hang in there, be strong, and know you have support here.
candi
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
I believe addictions are a choice and that is how they are treated at most recovery centers. In simple terms, if you treat an addiction as it's purely a disease in takes the power away from addicted person to change. Any addict makes the choice to drink a drink, smoke a cigarette or take a drug. They have the mental ability to say no, so to speak. Yes, a person may be inclined due to genetics or environmental situations to be more suseptible, but make no mistake, the choice is there's to be an addict or not!
Addiction is classified as a Mental Illness in the DSMIV (bible for all Mental Health practicioners). There is something called the Baker's Act in Florida and I believe there is such a thing in New Jersey. Laura, at one time I believe you thought about approaching her son to talk to him about the situation. He could work with the authorities to Baker Act his mother and force treatment.
I believe addictions are a choice and that is how they are treated at most recovery centers. In simple terms, if you treat an addiction as it's purely a disease in takes the power away from addicted person to change. Any addict makes the choice to drink a drink, smoke a cigarette or take a drug. They have the mental ability to say no, so to speak. Yes, a person may be inclined due to genetics or environmental situations to be more suseptible, but make no mistake, the choice is there's to be an addict or not!
Addiction is classified as a Mental Illness in the DSMIV (bible for all Mental Health practicioners). There is something called the Baker's Act in Florida and I believe there is such a thing in New Jersey. Laura, at one time I believe you thought about approaching her son to talk to him about the situation. He could work with the authorities to Baker Act his mother and force treatment.
LauraMax
Cathlete
RE: OK, my drunk secretary just had an
Well, clearly this woman has an addiction problem. I think it's more drug than alcohol related--my boss used to be a pharmacist & evidently he had a talk w/her last week & discovered she was taking a dangerous coctail of painkillers. Personally I think she's combining them w/alcohol as well. A very scary situation.
I'm not really gonna offer an opinion on whether her addiction is a choice or an illness b/c I don't feel I'm qualified. I would help her if I could, but she simply won't let me. I don't need her going off on me in front of other staff, & I certainly am not going to put my job in jeopardy to help her. I have a mortgage to pay. Janie, to take your analogy, I would help someone in a car wreck if I could, but if it appeared that it would without a doubt put me in danger I have to selfishly say I probably would not.
Bottom line is this responsibility rests w/my boss & he's refusing to do anything about it. I will continue documenting regardless of what the town attny says.
Well, clearly this woman has an addiction problem. I think it's more drug than alcohol related--my boss used to be a pharmacist & evidently he had a talk w/her last week & discovered she was taking a dangerous coctail of painkillers. Personally I think she's combining them w/alcohol as well. A very scary situation.
I'm not really gonna offer an opinion on whether her addiction is a choice or an illness b/c I don't feel I'm qualified. I would help her if I could, but she simply won't let me. I don't need her going off on me in front of other staff, & I certainly am not going to put my job in jeopardy to help her. I have a mortgage to pay. Janie, to take your analogy, I would help someone in a car wreck if I could, but if it appeared that it would without a doubt put me in danger I have to selfishly say I probably would not.
Bottom line is this responsibility rests w/my boss & he's refusing to do anything about it. I will continue documenting regardless of what the town attny says.