wendymin72
Cathlete
I have been listening to the news coverage on this poor woman. It is making me crazy. I feel so bad for her. This proves the importance of having a living will! What do you all think of this situation?
O/T Should Terry Schiavo be made to live or die?
- Thread starter wendymin72
- Start date
toastythemosty
Cathlete
All I can say, that if Terry were me, I would want someone to pull the plug. I would never want to be in a veggie state...not ever.
Charlotte~~
Charlotte~~
DebbieH
Cathlete
It is such a sad story. I feel so bad for her parents but at the same time, I can't imagine what life must be for her poor hubby! I would think that I would want my family to pull the plug as I would hate to make life sooo hard for them. It IS a touchy subject!
Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH (AKA "Den Mother Debbie")http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH (AKA "Den Mother Debbie")http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
merrybaker
Cathlete
Same here ,If it were me I would say pull the plug !!! poor Terry I will pray for her .
50% of me wants to pull the plug, 50% of me wants her to live. Her husband wants her to die so he can collect $1 million. If he didn't care for the money, he'd divorced her a long time ago. I think the DH is a greedy little worm. If it were me in her place, I'd want them to pull the plug for me. I also feel sooo bad for her parents especially since the mom said she can "communicate" a little bit. I don't know. It's a tough situation because the DH is a jerk.
dss62467
Cathlete
As the question is worded, I can't answer that. "Made" to live or die. I would more say, "allowed". This is an impossible situation. A parent's love is stronger than any love on the planet. I can understand why her parents don't want to let go. I don't know if I agree with them, because I'm reasonably sure that I would allow my daughter to die if it were her in that bed. I don't like the way they're doing it. If she was on a respirator or something that would end her life in a very short amount of time if they discontinued it, it might be an easier decision too. But stopping her feeding tube? Won't that take weeks?
I have a living will and a health care proxy. I will never put my family through this.
I have a living will and a health care proxy. I will never put my family through this.
wendymin72
Cathlete
I personally voted not sure...just based on what I heard this morning. Apparently Terry is breathing on her own, her heart is beating on it's own, etc...the only "plug" is a feeding tube. With out that she will starve to death. I don't know...I can see both sides of the story but I guess with odds being against her EVER recovering, I would have to say let her die also....but to STARVE to death!? THAT disagrees with me...UGH.
Have a great work out!
~Wendy~
I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?WENDYMIN
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Have a great work out!
~Wendy~
I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?WENDYMIN
http://lilypie.com/days/050519/1/0/1/-5/.png[/img][/url]
wendymin72
Cathlete
Yes, Donna...they said about 2 weeks time for her to pass with out the tube...That is what makes it so especially awful and difficult...
Have a great work out!
~Wendy~
I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?WENDYMIN
http://lilypie.com/days/050519/1/0/1/-5/.png[/img][/url]
Have a great work out!
~Wendy~
I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?WENDYMIN
http://lilypie.com/days/050519/1/0/1/-5/.png[/img][/url]
DebbieH
Cathlete
Lisa!
Where did you hear that he gets a million $'s? Also, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think there is something to be said about someone going thru what he has and that one has to appreciate the thought that he stuck it out this far. Maybe I don't know all the facts but he HAS been thru a lot.
Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH (AKA "Den Mother Debbie")http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
Where did you hear that he gets a million $'s? Also, and I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think there is something to be said about someone going thru what he has and that one has to appreciate the thought that he stuck it out this far. Maybe I don't know all the facts but he HAS been thru a lot.
Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH (AKA "Den Mother Debbie")http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif[/img] If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
toastythemosty
Cathlete
I agree too. I wouldn't want to starve to death. I just wish they could just pull "a plug" and that would be it. Very complicated.
Charlotte~~
Charlotte~~
activegirl
Cathlete
Whether or not you believe Terry is truly alive, or in a vegetative state, what really bothers me about the entire situation is that I feel that the government has exceeded the mandate we give it as citizens. All the arguments I have heard for the congressional interference of yesterday, is based on individual views of right and wrong of these law makers. Does this mean that they can set aside laws and due process, just because they don't agree with something we are doing as a person? My Mother died a few years ago, and our family had to make the difficult decision to take her off life support. I remember sitting in the room, listening to the heart rate monitor, and watching the oxygen intake, and wondering when it would stop. It was pure agony, but we all knew it was what she would have wanted, and that living without dignity to her wasn't living. My Grandmother still won't speak to my Father because she feels he murdered my Mother, and while I can understand her feelings, I don't share them. I personally wouldn't want to live that kind of life, and I wouldn't wish it on my Mother, as much as I miss her. I am so grateful that we as a family were able to make that decision. After someone marries, don't they become a new family? I think the whole situation is just so sad. I feel for all involved.
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now!
Activegirl
Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now!
Activegirl
wendymin72
Cathlete
See now this is a WHOLE different topic I am about to bring up but there are cases (such as this), where I think that guy (shoot, I forget his name!!) who did assisted suicides should be ALLOWED to do what he did! A terminally ill person, or a person in a vegetative state should be allowed to be put out of thier misery and be allowed to have it done as painlessly as possible....don't just remove the tube and let the girl starve...give her a shot and let her fall asleep and not wake up...JMHO.
Have a great work out!
~Wendy~
I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?WENDYMIN
http://lilypie.com/days/050519/1/0/1/-5/.png[/img][/url]
Have a great work out!
~Wendy~
I smoked my last cigarette on March 17, 2004 at 10:00 pm!
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?WENDYMIN
http://lilypie.com/days/050519/1/0/1/-5/.png[/img][/url]
Timber99
Cathlete
>I believe Terry should be allowed to die with dignity. I
>think starving her to death is so cruel, there must be an
>easier more dignified way for them to let her go.
>
I second that! And taking that one step further, I think that they need to make a decision and stick with it. Pulling the plug and putting it back after several days is just terrible (and it's been done a couple of times already, I understand!)
>think starving her to death is so cruel, there must be an
>easier more dignified way for them to let her go.
>
I second that! And taking that one step further, I think that they need to make a decision and stick with it. Pulling the plug and putting it back after several days is just terrible (and it's been done a couple of times already, I understand!)
Elaine Keller
Cathlete
1. It's not a foregone conclusion that Terri Schiavo is in a Persitant Vegestative State. There are doctors, one of which was nominated for a Nobel Prize, that believe Terri can be rehabilitated. She's been denied any efforts for rehab for the past 10 years by her husband.
2. The courts in Florida were charged, first and foremost, with discerning what T. Schiavo would have chosen under the present circumstances. Florida law provides a complex system of procedural safeguards for this determination, including a "clear and convincing" evidence standard (the highest in all of civil law), and a presumption that the now-incapacitated patient would choose to live, in exercising her constitutional right to accept or refuse life-sustaining treatment. Moreover, Florida law requires that a guardian be appointed in circumstances such as these to represent the interests of the patient.
3. The court relied upon insufficient evidence regarding T. Schiavo's wishes (namely, the recollection of her husband that T. Schiavo's had made ambiguous, casual remarks about "not wanting to be a burden" many years prior, in a wholly unrelated context).
4. These irregularities make it impossible to conclude that T. Schiavo's wishes under the present circumstances were proven by "clear and convincing" evidence, particularly in light of the presumption (under Florida law) that she would have chosen to receive life sustaining treatment. Any claim, therefore, that re-insertion of the tube is contrary to Terri's wishes (and thus an encroachment upon her right to refuse treatment) is groundless. We simply do not yet know what her wishes would have been.
5. I don't know the husband's motive but I do know his intent which is that Terri dies by dehydration/starvation. I wouln't wish that on any living thing. Why not just give her a lethal injection?
Just a few thoughts...........
2. The courts in Florida were charged, first and foremost, with discerning what T. Schiavo would have chosen under the present circumstances. Florida law provides a complex system of procedural safeguards for this determination, including a "clear and convincing" evidence standard (the highest in all of civil law), and a presumption that the now-incapacitated patient would choose to live, in exercising her constitutional right to accept or refuse life-sustaining treatment. Moreover, Florida law requires that a guardian be appointed in circumstances such as these to represent the interests of the patient.
3. The court relied upon insufficient evidence regarding T. Schiavo's wishes (namely, the recollection of her husband that T. Schiavo's had made ambiguous, casual remarks about "not wanting to be a burden" many years prior, in a wholly unrelated context).
4. These irregularities make it impossible to conclude that T. Schiavo's wishes under the present circumstances were proven by "clear and convincing" evidence, particularly in light of the presumption (under Florida law) that she would have chosen to receive life sustaining treatment. Any claim, therefore, that re-insertion of the tube is contrary to Terri's wishes (and thus an encroachment upon her right to refuse treatment) is groundless. We simply do not yet know what her wishes would have been.
5. I don't know the husband's motive but I do know his intent which is that Terri dies by dehydration/starvation. I wouln't wish that on any living thing. Why not just give her a lethal injection?
Just a few thoughts...........
RE: Lisa!
You are so right DebbieH.
My uncle at 53 went in for an angioplasty at an Atlanta hospital a few years ago. He was expected, of course to go home the same day, angioplasty is done all the time with no problems. He left in a vegetative state several weeks later due to his heart stopping in the procedure and leaving him brain dead. With no living will, my aunt had no choice on the feeding tube, etc. He lived for 2 years on a tube before she was able to get him off the machine. She thought he would want to be let go. It was such a horrific experience for her.
She tells everybody to make sure you have power of attorney over your spouse. He was without oxygen to the brain for 16 MINUTES before they got him back and the hospital had no choice but to still put him on a machine because of no living will, power of attorney, etc.
I supported my aunt's decision 100% because I believe she truly knew what he would have wanted. Personally I saw no difference in him from when he was taken off the machine and when he was on it, honestly I don't think he suffered at all when his nourishment stopped. (That's only my opinion from what I saw, obviously we will never know for sure). My aunt, however, sure got her share of suffering over it.
I wonder if the husband is perhaps not the monster he has been made to be - I'm not saying he isn't, I have no clue. I just know that my aunt is a wonderful human being that was faced with a far harder decision than most of us will have to endure. I see her husbands side of it and I see her parents side of it. I feel for ALL of them.
Edited to say that it took my uncle exactly 14 days to die.
You are so right DebbieH.
My uncle at 53 went in for an angioplasty at an Atlanta hospital a few years ago. He was expected, of course to go home the same day, angioplasty is done all the time with no problems. He left in a vegetative state several weeks later due to his heart stopping in the procedure and leaving him brain dead. With no living will, my aunt had no choice on the feeding tube, etc. He lived for 2 years on a tube before she was able to get him off the machine. She thought he would want to be let go. It was such a horrific experience for her.
She tells everybody to make sure you have power of attorney over your spouse. He was without oxygen to the brain for 16 MINUTES before they got him back and the hospital had no choice but to still put him on a machine because of no living will, power of attorney, etc.
I supported my aunt's decision 100% because I believe she truly knew what he would have wanted. Personally I saw no difference in him from when he was taken off the machine and when he was on it, honestly I don't think he suffered at all when his nourishment stopped. (That's only my opinion from what I saw, obviously we will never know for sure). My aunt, however, sure got her share of suffering over it.
I wonder if the husband is perhaps not the monster he has been made to be - I'm not saying he isn't, I have no clue. I just know that my aunt is a wonderful human being that was faced with a far harder decision than most of us will have to endure. I see her husbands side of it and I see her parents side of it. I feel for ALL of them.
Edited to say that it took my uncle exactly 14 days to die.
Zt27,
Regarding the money factor, that is just a rumor being spread by Teri's family. The money has already been paid out.
I'm not going to guess about someone's motives considering I don't know anything about him and much of the information we are getting is emotionally charged and not necessarily accurate.
Regarding the money factor, that is just a rumor being spread by Teri's family. The money has already been paid out.
I'm not going to guess about someone's motives considering I don't know anything about him and much of the information we are getting is emotionally charged and not necessarily accurate.
RE: Lisa!
Debbie, besides the fact the husband will receive a substantial amount of money upon her death, he has also moved on with his life and has a mistress and kids with her. I think that is another factor that has upset the parents. In a way I can't blame him because it has been so many years that his wife has been in a vegetative state.
I agree with Wendy, it would be much easier if Dr. Kevorkian could give her a shot to make her sleep instead of pulling the feeding tube and having her starve. I really feel sorry for Terri, but if it were me I would not want to live my life like that and put my family through this. This case is so sad.
Debbie, besides the fact the husband will receive a substantial amount of money upon her death, he has also moved on with his life and has a mistress and kids with her. I think that is another factor that has upset the parents. In a way I can't blame him because it has been so many years that his wife has been in a vegetative state.
I agree with Wendy, it would be much easier if Dr. Kevorkian could give her a shot to make her sleep instead of pulling the feeding tube and having her starve. I really feel sorry for Terri, but if it were me I would not want to live my life like that and put my family through this. This case is so sad.