No DOMS, no gain?

P

putz168

Cathlete
Hi Cathe,
I have made a conscious effort to incorporate more strength training than cardio into my rotations this year to gain more lean muscle mass and a more sculpted look. I have been doing workouts such as GS, S&H, PUB/PLB, Muscle Max, etc. Initially I felt muscle soreness; however, lately, I haven't experience it. I keep up with you on the amount of weights on almost everything (I swear you have bionic shoulders), having reached that by constantly pushing myself to not go too light. Is it normal to stop feeling muscle soreness after a while, or does it mean I need to up my weights even more if I intend to see results? Thanks!!!

Beth
 
Good question!

I've been wondering this too. I have been increasing my weight A LOT lately, and still do not feel sore. I vary the strength training types from week to week as well, just to keep my body guessing.

So, I'm definitely bumping this one!
 
Well, I'm not Cathe, but...

I hardly ever get DOMS. I think it just has something to do with my muscle makeup or something. In fact, soemtimes when I do get DOMS, I'm pretty darned miserable. But I continue to see gains with my weight lifting. So my thought is, don't worry!
 
This is funny. I'm only just returning to weight training (Gym Style only, for now) after recovering from a shoulder injury and it's been... interesting. I had the stomACH flu last week, two days after doing GS Chest & Triceps, with the absolute lightest weights I'd EVER used. I was dawg-sick and so terribly sore. It was a challenge every time I had to roll out of bed to... uh... race to the bathroom. The whole way it was "ouch ouch ouch ouch...oh ouch..." It would have been hilarious If I weren't so miserable. And tonight, I did as much of GS Legs as I could but, 5 minutes past the warm-up, my knees were buckling...

4 Ibuprofen and a prayer, baby ;-)
 
Not Cathe (I wish!) but DOMS are not an indication of your fitness or strength gains. I went to a fitness convention last year and attended a talk about DOMS. DOMS is actually a signal of a low grade muscle strain. Since a muscle cell's normal life span is 5-8 weeks, when you repeat an activity that once made you sore after that time it's less likely to cause the same soreness because your muscles aren't likely to experience the same strain.

Another common misconception is that feeling "the burn" will make you sore: not true. The burn is lactic acid which has nothing to do with DOMS.

Again, not feeling muscle soreness or DOMS should NOT be your only indication that you aren't working hard enough. You can make gains without ever feeling DOMS. The two don't correlate; when you feel soreness it's usually because you haven't done that particular exercise in the last few weeks. You can make strength gains without feeling DOMS.

That said, you can plateau if you aren't working hard enough, so take a soul-searching look at your routine and figure out if heavier weights are appropriate for you at this stage of the game!

HTH a little!
 
>Not Cathe (I wish!) but DOMS are not an indication of your
>fitness or strength gains. I went to a fitness convention
>last year and attended a talk about DOMS. DOMS is actually a
>signal of a low grade muscle strain. Since a muscle cell's
>normal life span is 5-8 weeks, when you repeat an activity
>that once made you sore after that time it's less likely to
>cause the same soreness because your muscles aren't likely to
>experience the same strain.
>
>Another common misconception is that feeling "the burn" will
>make you sore: not true. The burn is lactic acid which has
>nothing to do with DOMS.
>
>Again, not feeling muscle soreness or DOMS should NOT be your
>only indication that you aren't working hard enough. You can
>make gains without ever feeling DOMS. The two don't
>correlate; when you feel soreness it's usually because you
>haven't done that particular exercise in the last few weeks.
>You can make strength gains without feeling DOMS.
>
>That said, you can plateau if you aren't working hard enough,
>so take a soul-searching look at your routine and figure out
>if heavier weights are appropriate for you at this stage of
>the game!
>
>HTH a little!

This is so true. After your body becomes used to particular moves the soreness does disappear. I can say plenty about lifting too much weight (back strain laid me up for 3 days) or using so much band tension you aren't properly doing the move (the shoulder mishap that plagued me for five months). Start light and gradually work up, particularly when you're new to all this.
 
Thanks for posting this very wise and correct response Amy, it is very true, DOMS has nothing to do with muscle gains.
 
Great thread!

Question: I've read that overworking a muscle causes microscopic tears and this "damage" may be accompanied by DOMS. (DOMS is not caused by lactic acid build-up as most people think.) Anyhow, you are supposed to rest the muscle, and during this rest time, the muscle repairs and grows stronger, bigger (hypertrophy). According to that theory, wouldn't DOMS be an indication of "no pain, no gain?"

I'm confused...HELP!
 
The microscopic tears happen in the muscle cells. That's the minor grade muscle strain. Resting the muscle will allow for some of the torn cells to be eliminated and new ones take their place, basically.

It's a process that happens all the time anyway; DOMS just indicates a large number of the cells have been damaged. It has nothing to do with gaining muscle, or the rate at which you are gaining it. If, however, you exercise the same muscles within that 48 hour period and the strain hasn't had time to recover, you can bring the minor strain to a major one and end up literally tearing your muscle. Bad idea!!
 
<<Resting the muscle will allow for some of the torn cells to be eliminated and new ones take their place, basically.>>

And this "repair" is not the same as growth?

<<DOMS just indicates a large number of the cells have been damaged.>>

According to what I've read, you "damage" the cells, and during rest, the muscle repairs and becomes bigger/stronger.

I still don't understand. Maybe I'm dense. :p
 
The weight lifting session introduces microscopic tears into the muscle tissue. The strength gains occur during the resting period following weight training when the muscle repairs itself and literally makes itself stronger.

Clare
 
>The weight lifting session introduces microscopic tears into
>the muscle tissue.

Which produces DOMS.


The strength gains occur during the
>resting period following weight training when the muscle
>repairs itself and literally makes itself stronger.

Which means, "No pain, no gain."

??????
 
It isn't that DOMS is not an indication of muscle change and growth.

You don't need to feel DOMS to make muscle gains. That's all there is to it.

You do not need to feel DOMS (a muscle strain) to grow.

It is literally, in your words: no pain, still gain.
 
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