My Weightlifting Experiement

F

fitden

Cathlete
Hi, Cathe and all!

I am trying something different this week from anything else I've ever tried in weightlifting: Working one body part per day, choosing 4 or 5 exercises, and performing 4 to 5 sets of each exercise with as heavy a weight I can handle with good form. I take 30 to 60 second breaks between sets, and it takes 45 minutes to 1 hour to complete the body part (today I did shoulders and it took about 50 minutes).

Now, I'm sure this is not the first time this "experiement" of mine has ever been done of course; I see it in bodybuilder's workout schedules often. I am curious as to what success I will see. Cathe have you, or any friends on the forum ever tried this before? What were your results?

I am an "ectomorph"--It takes a lot for me to put on muscle mass. Slow and Heavy is my favorite series, as it has given me the most gains, but I must shake things up a bit now! I plan to add three cardio workouts to this, and I don't need to lose wieght.

I must admit, it was strange not popping in one of your tapes, Cathe, to follow along with! I did turn on some motivating music, but it wasn't the same as having you "there"! :) Still, I'd like to give this a try, and I would love any input and thoughts on this new routine I am trying.

Thanks!
Denise
 
I would be interested in what your results will be!! It is hard to imagine them being anything less than fabulous though, spending all that time lifting..One thing I would be careful about though, is how you set up your lifting. I don't think it would be right to involve 2 muscle groups that "assist" each other in lifting exercises on two consecutive days. I don't remember how this works, but it seems like that concept would be more important here.
Also I would be concerned with too much of a good thing. I have read somewhere that 4-5 sets is really no better than 2. But, again, I have never tried this so it would be fun to see.. When are you going to fit in all your cardio???

Good Luck and please let us know your progress. All the hardgainers here would love that info...Janice
 
Thanks Janice and Stacy!

Janice, I agree about the sequence I follow--I will check on that right away. I think the ones I have seen follow the largest to smallest muscle groups, which I did not follow this week--I put shoulders in early because since they are my weakest area, I thought I might want to work them twice--but I won't! Now I can see that would probably be detrimental to muscle growth.

Yesterday after I worked my shoulders I did Powermax. It does make for a long workout, but I will keep it to 3 per week, and every one doesn't need to be a full 60 minutes. I'll probably be putting my CTX cardios to good use during this time! :)

I'll keep you updated on the results. This is the first week, second day. So far I can report: I'm sore. haha

Denise
 
I think it is important to SEPARATE the following body parts on non-consecutive days:

Chest, shoulders, triceps (all involve triceps)
Back, biceps (both involve biceps)
Legs, back (back gets worked in some leg exercises, eg deadlifts)

So, if I were to train one body part a day, I would do something like this:

Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Chest
Wednesday: Back
Thursday: Shoulders
Friday: Biceps
Saturday: Triceps
Sunday: Rest

This way, the hardest workout (legs) is at the beginning of the week after a rest day. Abs could be worked a couple of times on any of the days.

Alternatively, you could have an extra rest day on Friday, and work both biceps and triceps together on Saturday.

Sharon.
 
Hi Denise! I was doing at one point 3-4 exercises and doing up to 60 reps for each exercise. But I'm not an ectomorph and I can build pretty quickly which I did when working it this way. It was time consuming but I don't know w/me I just continue to have big arms but not cut like I would like to look. I've tried everything and unfortunately for some of us its genetics and no matter what we do to vary it up we still look the same. That was my experience anyway. Maybe you'll have better luck. Keep us posted on your progress. Good luck! Kathy
 
Hi, Sharon! Thanks so much for that info! That was exactly what I needed to know. This week will be different, because I did it out of sequence. Following your schedule I did biceps today, since I did shoulders yesterday (biceps took a full hour--4 exercises, 5 sets each). Maybe tomorrow I will do legs, followed by triceps on Thursday--something to that affect so that I'm not doing a body part too close to next week's schedule--that way I can start with the largest to smallest muscle groups as you have shown. Thanks so much for the help! :)

Kathy, 60 reps! Wow! Were the reps split up between the 3 to 4 exercises you did, or did you literally do 60 reps per set? That would be amazing. I'm doing 8 to 10 reps per set (sometimes less because I'm experimenting with the heaviest weight I can handle with good form) because I'm going heavy. My count is not as long as in Slow & Heavy, but certainly much slower than a 2-2 count. I agree with you that genetics definitely play a big part in both the weightlifting and cardio aspects of exercise. I have been lucky enough to get some definition from past weight work, which I have been doing for years, but I liked the idea of this different approach.

The nicest thing about doing this so far is that it feels almost peaceful--those of you who have done the Slow & Heavy series and experienced this will know what I mean. That could be due to the fact that there's a good rest period in between to "collect myself" for the next set--there's no rushing here. It does take lots of physical and mental energy, though--I'm putting a lot of concentration into keeping proper form. I really need to invest in a mirror this week, though, as I am trying to check my form in the reflection of the television set! haha

Thanks again! Yes, I would be happy to post my progress! I'm also open to input or tips anyone might have on this.

Denise
 
Hi, Denise,
If your goal for resistance training is to increase muscle mass, volume is very important. What some people don't realize is that training where the goal is to be as strong as possible isn't the same as training where the goal is to maximize muscular size. Strength gains can come in the absence of any appreciable gain in muscular size or mass due to the neurological factors involved with strength.

I, too, tend to be of the ectomorphic type. I respond best to training that utilizes variable reps and resistance levels--high resistance to challenge the fast twitch fibers, high reps to challenge the slow twitch fibers. I don't find that super heavy lifting all the time is productive for my goal of maximum muscularity. I also incorporate all sorts of training variables into my workouts, such as pre-exhaust techniques, drop or strip sets, isometric pauses, partials and plyometric training.

I don't think there's any definitive way to split the body other than upper and lower halves. Chest and back training both require the biceps, triceps and deltoids to work--because the long head of the triceps and both heads of the biceps cross the shoulder in addition to their actions on the elbow, both muscles are involved in exercises such as the bench press, push ups, rowing and lat pulldowns. Additionally, the deltoids are involved in both back and chest exercises to an extent, also--the anterior head is a prime mover in chest exercises and the posterior head is a prime mover in some back exercises. So, any way you divide it up, biceps, triceps and deltoids are going to be working in both back and chest days, which can make it mighty challenging to avoid working these three groups on consecutive days.

The comments about 3 or more sets not being any more effective than 2 sets pertain to strength benefits only, not to maximizing muscle mass. The key is to find the optimal number of sets and exercises per body part for your particular body type. Exercise science isn't exact--there are principles and basic guidelines, but few absolutes.

Good luck with your training!
Maribeth
 
Thank you for sharing this with me, Maribeth! I would say that I am trying to maximize muscularity--I already feel strong due to all the great workouts I have done in past rotations--from MIS, Pure Strength series, S&H series, to CTX strength series. I love to see muscle in my arms. I am not trying to look like a bodybuilder, but I find arms with noticeable shape to be very appealing if it is not overdone on a woman, and that is the look I strive for.

I already have some nice shape and definition that I contribute partly to some of the variables you mentioned (sometimes working fast-twitch, sometimes, working slow-twitch muscle fibers, drop sets, and partial reps). All these factors would cause muscle confusion, I am guessing, and therefore continued results.

Thank you for the information on which body parts assist others--seems to be almost impossible to not bring some of the same muscle groups into play somewhat during this routine. I will watch out for signs of overtraining, however, and try to split them up in the best way possible.

Yes, unfortunately exercise is not an exact science, is it?! The bright side of that fact is that trying new things always keeps it interesting and exciting (and sometimes downright frustrating!). :)

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge--I appreciate it very much!

Denise
 
Hi Denise! I was doing 3 sets of 20 reps for the 3 exercises that I chose for each body part lifting as heavy as I could. I definitely got big arms but not cut. I'm seeing better results with doing the Tank Top Arms Rotation though. I believe it was mentioned that Karen Voight does the Slow & Heavy way of lifting but instead of a 8 count she does a 14 count!! YOWSA!! Right now I'm just trying to cut my bodyfat down a little bit more. Good luck on your endeavors. Please keep us all posted on your progress. Kathy
 
Maribeth,

You sound like you know a lot about weight lifting, and have a lot of experience doing it. I agree that there are very few absolutes in exercise. If there were, we wouldn't need to ask so many questions! I have always wondered about avoiding working upper body parts on consecutive days. It seems that I use all of my upper body muscles to work any of the larger parts, namely shoulders, chest and back, so I try to avoid doing any upper body work on consecutive days.

Please continue to provide your knowledge here. It is very useful!

Thanks,
Sandi
 
Hi, Sandi!
As a physical therapist, certified athletic trainer, certified personal trainer and registered clinical exercise physiologist, fitness is my passion as well as my profession. I love this stuff, so any posts I can respond to, I do. It's a good workout for my brain!

Take care!
Maribeth
 
Glad you posted this!

I think you've read my mind. I'm very curious about this and I was planning out a rotation that goes like this: one day per body part per week and do the specified segment from each portion of the following tapes: PS, CTX and MIS.

Day 1 Shoulder portion of PS, CTX and MIS

Day 2 Bicep, Tricep portions PS, CTX and MIS

Day 4 Chest, Back portions PS, CTX and MIS

Day 5 Slow and Heavy Legs

Day 6 BodyMax, Power Hour or Circuit Max

Day 7 Rest.

I'll add 90 minutes-3 hours of cardio per week as I see fit. Obviously cardio would not be my main focus on a rotation like this.

Maribeth, if you're "tuned in" let me know if there's something I could do better here. Do you think there would be too much doubling up as far as repetive moves go?

Thanks you guys!:) This thread is definitely a "printer".

Julie
 
RE: Glad you posted this!

Now, I'm REALLY gonna get on a roll here--lookout!

Julie, what are your goals and can you describe your body type? If your goal is just to increase strength, the training plan will be different than for increasing muscle mass, from a fine-tuning perspective. It will also vary with your particular body type. Your body type really makes a difference--this is why what works well for one person won't work worth a hoot for another.

I'm sure you have seen wonderful physiques on people who will perform resistance training for a particular body part two or more days in a row. Although the typical guideline has been to allow 48 hours between resistance training workouts for a muscle group, it depends on the body type, level of resistance and rate of recovery of the individual.

Another example is the person who never lifts a weight at all, but is very muscular from cardio only. But, if you examine their workout program, you'll most likely find that it includes lots of power/plyometric moves, which have very similar effects on specific muscle groups as does resistance training. For some people--easy gainers in particular, a "cardio" class or workout on an inclined treadmill or stairclimber will result in sculpted glutes and legs.

Uh-oh, I feel a very long post coming on--I'll quit before I get out of hand. Julie, feel free to e-mail me directly or post and we can see if there's anything different you could be doing to tweak your program!
Maribeth
 
RE: Glad you posted this!

Very interesting, Maribeth..


Jeez, why can't we just have it all??!! Seems logical to train for strength at first and then move into a program that will maximize muscle gain, for that "bodybuilder" look. I know I for one feel alot better when I weighttrain when I feel strong rather than weak. I find I want to do it much more often when I atleast think I am stronger. It just really sucks when you feel weak. It helps very much when I think that there are several ways you can gain strength. If you can lift 20 lbs one week and the next you can lift 30 with the same number of reps, you are stronger. BUT also, if you have to drop down in weight but can complete many more reps than the week before, you are also stronger. I try to remember this rather than concentrating so much on poundage.

I would love to try a rotation such as this, but I really am afraid of overtraining. Just seems like 45 min. a day devoted only to one bodypart would have to be overtraining. And I would be so afraid of working the same muscles consecutive days. Seems like a better rotation would be as Maribeth says, with UPPER and LOWER body alternating. Couldn't you just do it like that all week?? Seems safer for maximum strength gains atleast...Just a few thoughts...Janice
 
And then Julie said . . .

Hi Maribeth, I guess I should have pointed out that I'm definitely an ectomorph who has fat mainly in the area of the torso to loose. I am 5'6" tall and I weigh 139 on my home scale and 143 on the scale at the local club. I just turned 40 last month :). My goals are: increase definition and muscle mass, lose fat covering the muscles. I've learned the hard way that increasing cardio does nothing for me as far as fat loss goes. I was doing 5-6 hours of intense cardio per week and PS for strength once per week and getting absolutely nowhere. Wrong program for me. Three weeks ago I cut back cardio to 90 minutes-2 hours total keeping intensity medium to low and stopping when I 've had enough. For strength I have been doing Tank Top Arms for the last 8 weeks, but I have seen noticeable results (size & definition) in the time I have reduced cardio.

Maybe I should re-word my original question: Will I reach my goals more sucessfully by working one part per day? Or would a variety of total body and split routines help me more?

One more thing that's bugging me. If you don't mind. Who said a rotation that runs in 7 day increments is best for a human body? Anyone? I realize it fits well into our lives because we measure time in weeks but this seems kind of arbitrary to me. Is the science there to back it up?

Thanks so much Maribeth. I think you're great:D.
 
RE: And then Julie said . . .

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-02 AT 12:58PM (Est)[/font][p]Oops, forget to mention my eating is about 80-85 % clean. I am generally following the Plate Plan outlined in Prevention (April 2002). I won't use supplements other than a post-weightlifting protein shake and a multi-vitamin.
 
And Maribeth Responds...

Hey, Julie,
You brought up an excellent point! 7 day rotations most definitely are NOT best for everyone! I have to work body parts at least twice a week to see improvements, especially in the lower body area. It all depends on the body type, goals, nutritional status and activity level.

I have a friend who has an incredible body--definitely a mesomorph, though--who works legs and glutes at least 5 days per week. No history of overuse injuries--she's been instructing for almost 20 years, no muscle wasting, and a body fat percentage that is remarkable. She also shuns fad diets, eating in moderation and enjoying 3 glasses of red wine per day--not advocating the wine, necessarily, but relating her habits.

You have a body type that is similar to mine--thin limbs, carry any excess fat on the trunk (lower abdominal area and hips, not buttocks and thighs). I, too, see much more in the way of results when I focus on strength training vs cardio. Right now, I think you could go either way with the total body vs split routines. If you are going to work on increasing muscle mass, ultimately a split will allow you to add the volume you need without spending hours on end with your exercise program.

As far as the cardio goes, you may want to have a couple of days of high intensity, shorter duration work and a day of more moderate intensity, longer duration training. Whether you choose to do cardio on leg days will be a matter of experimentation. Some people will do very well by adding a plyo type cardio workout to the leg days, since the plyometric nature of the cardio workouts will provide a very significant load on the legs. Others feel too exhausted by the heavy leg training to do anything in the way of a cardio workout.

There are also training methods you will want to use in your strength work to maximize increase in muscle mass. I can post more about this if you are interested.
Maribeth
 
RE: And Maribeth Responds...

OK, why in the world would you want to work your legs 5 times per week..especially if you are a mesomorph!! Seems like there is a lot of wasted time there. Your friend looks good, Maribeth, but my guess is she probably would look just as good if she worked her legs 2 days a week. I just cannot understand this volume of training unless she is only working her legs for a few minutes a day. Big difference between a few minutes and a Leaner Legs workout, you know?? As an instructor and a mesomorph, why does your friend feel she has to spend so much time on her legs?? Does it really make her look significantly different?? Just wondering..Janice
 
RE: And Maribeth Responds...

Hi, Janice,
My point with the case of my friend is that the rules aren't hard and fast. She works that much because she likes it and experiences no negative effects from it. And, her leg training is tough--very tough--from a local muscular endurance standpoint. She probably spends at least 30-40 minutes per session on leg work. She doesn't lift heavily at all because she says she gets much larger than she wants.

If you lift heavily, you need longer recovery time. But lifting maximally isn't necessarily the way to ensure maximal muscle growth. Some people respond better to more moderate loads imposed more frequently.

Could my friend do less leg work and stay just as strong, muscular and toned? Most likely, yes, but again, my point wasn't to suggest everybody train this way, but to illustrate the differences between individuals and to indicate that the guidelines are just that--guidelines, not hard and fast rules.

My personal goal is to get maximum results in the least amount of time necessary. My friend's goal is to get maximum results and feel that she has worked the heck out of a body part.

In rehab, we sometimes have people work the same muscle group several times a day. They typically will be pretty weak and will have to use a light resistance to start, so they require more frequent workouts to see improvements.

It's a continuum--lower resistance, more reps and more frequent workouts-----max resistance, few reps and much less frequent workouts. For optimum muscularity, the average person will have to fall somewhere between the two. Training where the primary goal is increasing strength isn't done quite the same way as training where the primary goal is increasing muscular hypertrophy.

Take care!
Maribeth
 
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