muscle vs. fat.... fat seems to be winning

Stephanie0523

Stephanie0523

Cathlete
OK, ladies... I know I often bring this up, but I need some more advice from you all... As you know from one of my old posts, I have given up rest days for Lent... Have been working out every day since the week of Ash Wednesday. I take one day for yoga so I don't overdo it, and three days heavy weights (ChaLean Extreme Push phase) and three days of cardio (though this week it was two days of cardio and one day of Butts & Guts). I am seeing muscle gain in the upper body. I feel it in my legs/glutes. But the scales have only slightly changed (only about two pounds at most). I do Cathe's Nutrition Manager, so I know my diet is right on track. But the clothes STILL fit the same. My lower body seems to be clinging to the fat.

I thought muscle revved up the metabolism so that I would burn this off. In the past, this always has been the case. Any suggestions?? Sooooooooooooooooo frustrating!!!!!!:confused:

(This is the last time I'll bring it up... I'm just desperate for answers... Liann, no dead horse smileys please. ;) )
 
Stephanie, I don't really have any advice to offer, just wanted to offer a shoulder! I know how frustrating it is! Hope someone can offer some more insight for you!
 
The less body fat and weight you have to lose, the slower it is going to come off. I think you will find that if you just keep going for a while longer, all of a sudden, the body fat will just come off almost overnight- your body will stop holding on to it and try something else to get you to do what it wants you to do.
 
Thanks, Kate.. you're such a sweet person! :) The odd thing is, much of it is around my c-section incision (TMI??)/lower abs. I've always been able to shrink that area down more than it has this last time. Ugh!!!

Morningstar-I want to lose 10 pounds, 15 would be divine. So you probably are right. I've just been stuck for the past year and getting so frustrated. I really want it to start coming off before I go to the beach in July. I go to the doc next week and I'm going to find out if it could be anything hormonal.
 
Have you already tried completely shocking your body by doing one or more of the following?:

  • Eat more, not less
  • Eat different ratios of macro-nutrients
  • Take a break from your diet entirely for a month or two
  • Completely change the type of workouts you do
  • Move to low intensity workouts
  • Move to high intensity workouts
  • Take a complete break from working out for a couple of weeks
  • Take up a sport instead of a traditional workout

If you have been doing the same thing for that long without results, it may be time to try something non-intuitive and completely different for a short period of time, even if it goes against conventional wisdom.
 
If you're up for this, give it a try: eliminate gluten, alcohol, caffeine, sugar and animal products (eat vegan) for 21 days. I tried this and only made it 2 weeks, but it gave me good results in those 2 weeks. I did allow green tea instead of no caffeine, but green tea is great for you. Also, I took fish oil. Essentially, this is the clean diet from he**, but it's only for a couple of weeks!

Here's what I ate: breakfast was mainly steel-cut oats with dried fruit. Lunch I usually made an Indian dal (beans) which is naturally vegan. Dinner was the hardest but I usually did a grain like quinoa or rice, a salad, veggie chili, those sorts of things. Snacks were largely nuts. I also ate hummus, guacamole, apples with natural peanut butter. Corn tortilla chips are gluten-free so okay on this diet. Trying to stay true to the challenge I did not use any sweetener, but I think that agave or stevia something like that would be okay and if I try it again I would allow that.

I think as is the case with exercise, sometimes you really need to shake things up, in this case your diet, to see real results.
 
Morningstar-- Thanks for the suggestions! I did switch to a lower intensity routine for awhile. I did Brazil Body Lift and Muscle Endurance once a week to get some strength training in (plus, I had to keep Cathe in the routine! :)) I saw no results and thought my butt actually was getting bigger. :eek: So I went back to Chalean extreme... I did it after my son was born and got some good results... so I thought it would happen again this time around. I recently bought drill max and have added it into the mix once a week to shock my body a bit since the cardio in CLX isn't as intense. So maybe in time that will bring results. I don't really "diet." Just try to eat cleanly/healthy. And I don't want to change that because I'm a creature of habit, and if I stray away from this way of eating, I may not get back. After Easter, I'm thinking of taking a rest week, but I hate to get off routine... I LOVE my workout time each day. It's the only hour I have to myself. :p But I may need to just to reboot.

Geomom-- I thought about going vegetarian since I eat very little meat. Lately, thought I've been putting chicken into my salad at night ... I eat a salad nearly every night for dinner... to get protein. I'm not going to give up my glass of red wine. But I probably should only indulge once a week. But, I budget it into my calories for the day... I pretty much gave up caffeine. I drink a ton of tea during the day, though... I take a water bottle at night and fill it up (32 oz) and add four green tea bags to it. The next morning I have ready-made tea to sip on all day... no sweetener needed because I use flavored teas. I also love hot tea...My daily food intake usually goes like this:

Breakfast: high-fiber oatmeal made with skim milk, cup of hot tea
Snack: a clementine or strawberries sprinkled with wheat germ
Lunch: Ezekial English muffin with 1 Tbsp natural pb, cup of skim milk
Snack2: apple with pb or other fruit
Dinner: 2 cups of salad greens, 1 grilled chicken breast, a tad of parmesan (maybe 1 TBSP at most), Lite balsamic vinegrette... 1 Ezek English muffin (I eat it as if it's french bread and dip it into olive oil with herbs because my nutrition guide said I wasn't getting enough fats) and a glass of red wine
Snack 3: vitatop muffin (I am one of those people who need something sweet to end the day)

Sounds like a lot of food, but it averages about 1500-1600 calories at most, which is within my recommended food allotment.
 
Ummm, nope it doesn't seem like a lot of food. If you are working out the way you say you are, you are chronically undereating. No wonder your body is holding on to every bit of fat! Eat more, go for a smaller calorie deficit and try zigzagging your calories.
 
What do you mean smaller calorie deficit? When you look at my daily intake, what would you suggest adding? It seems like I'm eating all the time. (p.s. Thank you soooo much for taking time to offer me some advice.)
 
I think you have a fairly high carb diet, which I don't think is a problem if most of your workouts are high intensity and use glycogen as the primary fuel source. However, you may want to add in more calories from protein sources and add in way more veggies- two cups of salad greens in a day is not sufficient.
 
I'll start by saying we are all different but you situation sounds similar to mine which began a few years ago in my mid 40's. Used to be able to drop 5 lbs but exercising a bit more or eating just a little less. Not so any longer. The late 40's and early 50's are very trying for me ! :confused:

What helps me is to totally cut out the bread/rice/pasta items except once in a while I'll have double fiber bread, low carb/high protein tortilla or oatmeal but only once per day at the most and typically in the AM.

I add in loads of veggies and reduce my fruit intake to once per day in the AM also.

Upping my protein works for me too. By doing this for a couple of weeks with a cheat here and a cheat there, I can lean out a bit. (Lately have been doing STS and it makes me hungry so I'm not doing too well right now :rolleyes:)

In reviewing what you are eating you may be able to try one or more of these eating changes and see a difference. Lots of water helps too - though sounds like you get quite a bit. I aim for about 3 qts to a gallon and it also helps flush out the fat. ;)

Your workouts seem fine to me but switching things up monthly tends to help. Have you tried a "freestyle" type of rotation for the LB?

Just some ideas which I know you have researched - I do think it may be the eats . . .
 
Thanks, guys. I am a carboholic. I guess I thought since I was eating whole grains/high fiber/Ezekiel stuff that it was excusable, but I do need to up my veggies and protein.

Thanks again for all of your input!! I very much appreciate it!! :)
 
Well remember some people can do carbs just fine. I have found for me, however, that when I limit them to just veggies and fruits or in the AM it works best. At least you were eating good grains !

Playing around and switching things up with your food as well as your workouts is the only way to find what will work for you. That was what I did all of 2008 and part of 2009 - experiment with different things until I know what works for me at this point in time. I am sure it will change again ! :eek:
 
Have you considered changing your snacks? Possibly substituting more raw veggies, like red or green peppers, raw cauliflower, even raw asparagus tips for your fruit?? Veggies will have less sugar and more fiber. Maybe pair that with a hard-boiled egg or string cheese? (Though not sure if you eat eggs). Then have the fruit with wheat germ at night in place of your muffin? Just some "food for thought" ;)
 
Stephanie0523 said:
Thanks, guys. I am a carboholic. I guess I thought since I was eating whole grains/high fiber/Ezekiel stuff that it was excusable, but I do need to up my veggies and protein.

Thanks again for all of your input!! I very much appreciate it!! :)
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Absolutely- but, again, I think you need to up your calories too. Seriously. A low calorie diet simply doesn't work over the long term - your body has adjusted completely to it and you aren't getting the results you want. Low calorie eating only works in an intermittent basis so your body doesn't have time to adjust. Maybe try going for a small average deficit everyday - say, 250 calories, but zigzag to get there, like so:

Day 1: 1850 calories
Day 2: 1600 calories
Day 3: 2100 calories
Repeat

That would give you an average of 1850 calories a day without giving your body time to adjust. I actually think you should aim for about 2000 calories a day or more on average, depending on your weight and activity level outside of working out; this is just an example. And I would maybe go for a couple of weeks at about 2300 calories a day every day just to reset your body's expectations. If you pick higher quality caloric sources, you also gain really valuable nutrients that are harder to consume on a low calorie diet.

I know that this is scary- once you've managed to find a nutritional plan you can stick with, messing with it feels like you'll never get back on the right path. But you know how to eat low calorie now- and truthfully, is it still working for you, or is it time to try something a little different? You can always go back to semi-starving yourself if if doesn't work.
 
I afreee with Morningstar...your diet is healthy but largely carbs. Try 4-6 meals of greens plus lean protein...healthy fats like olive oil and avacado, nuts. Carbs like fruit and oatmeal around the time of the day that you work out. Make sure that a couple of times a week your weight workout is "past comfort level" Tweeking the diet is the hardest part and figuring out what works The diet part can get "boring" but this should work....oh, make sure you take in enough calories during the day. You want to mainly keep your insulin from spikeing. When insulin is put out into the system the body loves to store fat.

Good luck!
 
ideas

First: try all the stuff MStar suggested (she is super smart at this.)

The additional calories seems counter intuitive but works. I often lose on my higher calories days rather than my lower calorie days.
But, uh, the red wine can be the issue. Alcohol makes me gain, and drinking that may be preventing the loss you seek. Set it aside for the time being and add it back in after the 10-15 pound loss. Do twenty minutes of yoga instead for a chill moment every night.
Since Chalean is not as intense that may be a problem. You may need more intensity in your cardio.
I don't think the chicken in your salad is a problem at all, I don't see a necessity to stop eating that. As far as I can tell, its allowed on all diets from Atkins to McDougall.
And, a 3 day weight split seems more strength intensive rather than weight loss focused. Some people lose on that and you may have in the past but I suggest switching to a two day split with 4 days of cardio, not three.

Just m 2 cents, I hope this helps.
 
If you need just a little bit of something sweet, a cutie is a super small serving of fruit in a convenient size package. They come in at 1.5 ounces (without peel) and about 5 grams of carbs each. I love those on a salad with olive oil and avocado. Its really tasty.
 
Ooh, I love cuties! That's what I eat for a snack most mornings...
RapidBreath-I have tried a more cardio-focused workout plan, but my body doesn't respond well to it. I love my weight workouts. I think that the Chalean weight workouts are very effective and intense. I just make sure to lift HEAVY. As I said earlier, I sub in DrillMax for one of the CLX cardios each week, and I oftentimes instead of taking a yoga day, I'll do another cardio. I really think my workouts are spot-on, that's what's boggling my mind. I really do think it's the diet. In the past when I've gotten super lean, I've done so on a low-cal diet very high in fiber. That's not working as well this time around. I'm very scared to add in calories 2000 calories each day really scares me. When I was a kid I was very very chubby. When I entered my early 20s, I lost it all and got down to a size 4 by starving myself. I seriously ate one meal a day and averaged probably less than 1,000 a day. I'm not that stupid anymore... but I still equate high calories with weight gain. Ugh... And as I get older (I'm 36), it seems like it's becoming such a crazy balancing act.
 
Stephanie0523 said:
Ooh, I love cuties! That's what I eat for a snack most mornings...
RapidBreath-I have tried a more cardio-focused workout plan, but my body doesn't respond well to it. I love my weight workouts. I think that the Chalean weight workouts are very effective and intense. I just make sure to lift HEAVY. As I said earlier, I sub in DrillMax for one of the CLX cardios each week, and I oftentimes instead of taking a yoga day, I'll do another cardio. I really think my workouts are spot-on, that's what's boggling my mind. I really do think it's the diet. In the past when I've gotten super lean, I've done so on a low-cal diet very high in fiber. That's not working as well this time around. I'm very scared to add in calories 2000 calories each day really scares me. When I was a kid I was very very chubby. When I entered my early 20s, I lost it all and got down to a size 4 by starving myself. I seriously ate one meal a day and averaged probably less than 1,000 a day. I'm not that stupid anymore... but I still equate high calories with weight gain. Ugh... And as I get older (I'm 36), it seems like it's becoming such a crazy balancing act.
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You may have gotten super lean on a low calorie, high fibre diet because you were pooping all your calories out! How was your muscle mass at that time? I think that your workout program's great as is, and I think you're right that it is the diet. I totally get being scared to change it, because you equate eating more with giving up control of your eating, and that you will immediately turn fat again. But what if you focused on eating more in an even more strict fashion than you eat now? What if you gave yourself permission to eat more, but only under very specific circumstances, in controlled conditions, with tight monitoring? That way you would feel that you were still in control, that it was part of your nutrition plan and that you wouldn't be chancing getting fat again.

Fitness is supposed to be about health, vitality, fun and joy, not counting every calorie and being afraid to eat. But you aren't in that place yet - you are still in the fear place. And I get it. But that fear is keeping you from some very specific body composition results. So you might as well use that fear as a tool, and just use it in a different way than you're currently doing. You are very dedicated and committed and have shown yourself to be a pillar of dietary restraint- even when it's not working for you.

Maybe once you reach your goal, and you will, you will feel that the goal itself was only an illusion after all, and you will feel that a life of fitness is so much more than 10-15 pounds on the scale. Reaching one's target weight isn't the same as reaching happiness - and you may find that when you get there that all this angst about such a small amount of weight wasn't really worth it. Maybe putting more energy into being happy with yourself and proud of your current level of fitness would lead to way more happiness than 10lbs on the scale ever could.

I speak from the point of view of someone that lost a helluva lot of weight and became much healthier, but much less happier. And really, high weight, low weight, rich, poor, stupid, smart, isn't what we all want, deep down, is to be happy?
 
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