more on the pet food recall

>Well according to PETA's website....you can have a pet as
>long as it comes only from a shelter, it is not caged if it is
>a bird, it is not allowed outside if it's a cat (unless on a
>leash) or if it is a dog that is never chained, or crated. And
>don't you dare breed your animals.....and that comes right
>from their site.

Granted, some of PETA's tactics are extreme (the "rather go naked" campaign and others that exploit women makes me cringe), but I don't see anything extreme about this. They are just guidelines for being responsible companions to animals.

What "human rights" are being valued over animal rights? The right to chain a dog in ones backyard?
 
>What "human rights" are being valued over animal rights? The
>right to chain a dog in ones backyard?

ROTFL, Oh Kathryn, you just crack me up sometimes, I know I shouldn't be laughing about this but you have such a dry sense of humor and it just so hit the nail on the head in one or two sentences.

I was writing a long paragraph about it and ended up deleting it because I thought it sounded offensive.

Said it much better in a few words than I could have in a whole paragraph! Gotta work on that :)

Carola
 
>>Well according to PETA's website....you can have a pet as
>>long as it comes only from a shelter, it is not caged if it
>is
>>a bird, it is not allowed outside if it's a cat (unless on a
>>leash) or if it is a dog that is never chained, or crated.
>And
>>don't you dare breed your animals.....and that comes right
>>from their site.
>
>Granted, some of PETA's tactics are extreme (the "rather go
>naked" campaign and others that exploit women makes me
>cringe), but I don't see anything extreme about this. They
>are just guidelines for being responsible companions to
>animals.
>
>What "human rights" are being valued over animal rights? The
>right to chain a dog in ones backyard?
No ofcourse that is not a human right I was talking about. My post said value of human rights and lives.....as in PETA being against charities like the March of Dimes.

Charities such as the March of Dimes use donations from private citizens to fund experiments on animals, and the FDA requires all drugs to be tested on animals.
http://www.peta.org/actioncenter/testing.asp

Now I understand that there are a lot of things that do not need to be tested on animals, but if there needs to be testing on animals to put and end to diseases, and create new advancements in medicen, so be it. And I don't think it is right of PETA to try and put a stop to it. And I think it is horrible that they want to stand in the path of medical advancement.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY NEXT STATEMENT:
I am all for the protection of animals, and the end of UNNECESSARY cruelty to animals.
I even agree with most of what PETA stands for.....I DON'T agree with PETA or the way they choose to get thier message across with scare tactics and violence against people. And I truely believe that when they put an artical out such as that one concerning the petfood recall, that they have a personal agenda.
 
Well, I am sorry to say that, but you are just changing your statements as we go along. First it is that PETA doesn't want us to have pets at all, then you get caught on your so-called info website being a lobbist, so you change your tune on that, because nothing on the PETA website says anything like that. So now it is the March of Dimes. WTH, where do you get this from??????

You are going over the deep end on how can PETA even dare to ask for the humane treatment of pets (not chaining, not letting cats roam free, not declawing them, etc) and now it is not standing in the way of medical advancement. You agree with most of what PETA stands for???? Give me a break!!!

It's one thing to test and make medical advancements but it is another to make animals suffer needlessly, you can test and make medical advancements without having animals suffer to this extent!!!

I think it is the right and the obligation of PETA to point out questionable practices of companies. You don't agree with the scare tatics of PETA, what scare tatics? There are some things that I don't agree on with PETA, where I think they are going overboard, but in general they make a pretty good case and they do expose questionable practices and rightfully so!

You don't think it is the right of PETA to put a stop to this???? Whose right is it????? So, you think the pharmaceutical industry has a right to make animals suffer, and noone is allowed to question this practice?????

PETA has a personal agenda on a petfood recall????? What kind of personal agenda would they have??? Unlike the pet food manufacturers or the FDA, they have no stake in this, financially or politically! What would they win??? They sure have bigger fish to fry than the pet food recall!

I really have to say, whereas I think you are a nice person with good intentions, I have a hard time containing myself on statements like that. I am NOT a PETA supporter in any way, shape or form but statements like yours just make my blood boil!!!!!!

Carola
 
I think it is very disturbing when people think that animals should be tested on for any medical advancement or any reason at all.
:-(

I think any creature that is forced to suffer cruelty for the so called advancement of another species is truly unspeakable.

There is never a need to be cruel.
Just my opinion.
Becki
 
>Well, I am sorry to say that, but you are just changing your
>statements as we go along. First it is that PETA doesn't want
>us to have pets at all, then you get caught on your so-called
>info website being a lobbist, so you change your tune on that,
>because nothing on the PETA website says anything like that.
>So now it is the March of Dimes. WTH, where do you get this
>from??????
>
>You are going over the deep end on how can PETA even dare to
>ask for the humane treatment of pets (not chaining, not
>letting cats roam free, not declawing them, etc) and now it is
>not standing in the way of medical advancement. You agree with
>most of what PETA stands for???? Give me a break!!!
>
>It's one thing to test and make medical advancements but it is
>another to make animals suffer needlessly, you can test and
>make medical advancements without having animals suffer to
>this extent!!!
>
>I think it is the right and the obligation of PETA to point
>out questionable practices of companies. You don't agree with
>the scare tatics of PETA, what scare tatics? There are some
>things that I don't agree on with PETA, where I think they are
>going overboard, but in general they make a pretty good case
>and they do expose questionable practices and rightfully so!
>
>You don't think it is the right of PETA to put a stop to
>this???? Whose right is it????? So, you think the
>pharmaceutical industry has a right to make animals suffer,
>and noone is allowed to question this practice?????
>
>PETA has a personal agenda on a petfood recall????? What kind
>of personal agenda would they have??? Unlike the pet food
>manufacturers or the FDA, they have no stake in this,
>financially or politically! What would they win??? They sure
>have bigger fish to fry than the pet food recall!
>
>I really have to say, whereas I think you are a nice person
>with good intentions, I have a hard time containing myself on
>statements like that. I am NOT a PETA supporter in any way,
>shape or form but statements like yours just make my blood
>boil!!!!!!
>
>Carola
>
>

I suggest you go back and re read my post. I haven't changed my tune at all. I was clarifying what I ment by the value of human rights and lives to Kathryn....and I included the link to PETA's website where I quoted thier stance on charities like March of Dimes. And they have a personal adgenda with the petfood recall, because they are already fighting with Iams, and have used this unfortunate mix up as a reason to spread more fear about Iams by saying that it isn't the wheat gluten and that Iams is telling lies.
I didn't say anything about not agreeing with them about declawing cats, i agree that it is a cruel thing to do. But I do think it is your personal choice if you want to chain your dog in your yard or have it in a pen. I don't think it should be that way all the time, that would be cruel.
And again go back and re read my post with your pointing finger aside and see that I said that I did not agree with (again I will put this in capitals so you will see it, just like the first time....) UNNECESSARY cruelty to animals.
For the last time, and listen up, because I'm not going to argue this with you any more. It is PETA I have a problem with, not animals!
 
Oh really, I have read your posts very carefully, you sure have changed your tune! You have changed your statements in 5 different posts, every time you got caught on baseless accusations you came up with a new accusation totally ignoring the previous response.

The March of Dimes research is a pretty poor example, it was used to manifest the detrimental effects of nicotine, alcohol and cocaine to the fetus. Why the heck do we need to conduct experiments on animals, for what we already know, alcohol, nicotine and cocaine is detrimental to a human fetus' health, duh!!

The other thing is, the FDA does NOT require testing on animals. That is a CHOICE of the pharmaceutical industry. Where do you get that the FDA requires animal testing?????

"The unfortunate mix-up"????? You make this sound like an oopsie, pets are dying out there!!!! This is not an unfortunate mix-up!

PETA is exposing Iams on a totally different level, they are accusing Iams of cruelty with practices on their feeding tests. I think that is undisputed! And it has nothing to do with the pet food recall!!! Iams' is just one of the MANY companies that contracted out the manufacturing of their pet food, but also included respected companies like, Wysong, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, etc. etc. VERY troubling!

You think it is a "personal choice" if you want to chain your dog in your yard!? I respectfully disagree!!! It is cruel, it is unnecessary and there is NO excuse for it!!

I am listening very carefully! And what I am hearing is VERY troubleing to me. I am NOT pointing fingers, you are doing a pretty good job pointing the finger at yourself! But to be fair, what IS UNESSECARY cruelty to animals???? I guess, in your book, whatever works is necessary!

Well, of course, you have no problem with animals, they can't speak up for themselves or defend themselves, they just suffer the cruel treatment and therefore, of course, you have a problem with PETA or any fair-minded person!

Carola
 
I was afraid arguments would start when I mentioned PETA in my post. Unfortunately the over zealous people in PETA have given the whole organization a bad name. I don't feel like I can completely trust what they say either. I was also wondering if they are using the pet recall as leverage against IAMS since they have issues with them on animal cruelty. I feed IAMS to my cats and am thinking of switching because of the animal cruelty, but I just wish I could believe PETA 100%. It's too bad that PETA has a bad reputation because I know that their intentions are good. Unfortunately in this world it's getting harder and harder to know who you can trust. And I know large corporations are not one of the ones you can trust. It really is too bad.

I called my vet's office and they said www.avma.org has a current list of which foods are safe. Hopefully more won't be added to the list. This has been a terrible, terrible thing that has happened and is so scary. I'll never feel completely confident when I feed my cats ever again.;(

Amy
 
I was going to leave this thread behind but I can't. I don't know about now since Iams has been bought out by P&G, but it was a GREAT company. I personally knew several of their employees; sales people from my days as a vet assistant, and a couple of their scientists are personal friends. I can tell you, there is, or at least WAS, no animal cruelty going on at Iams.

PETA is a lunatic fringe group hell bent on advancing their agenda. They are so impassioned as to be irrational, and their outrageous campaigns have forced me to turn a deaf ear. Impassioned activist groups like PETA cannot be trusted to tell the truth. They are too invested in their ideology.
 
>I was afraid arguments would start when I mentioned PETA in
>my post.
>

I'm sorry for my part in turning your post into that. I just don't like it when people put words in my mouth.

>I called my vet's office and they said www.avma.org has a
>current list of which foods are safe. Hopefully more won't be
>added to the list. This has been a terrible, terrible thing
>that has happened and is so scary. I'll never feel completely
>confident when I feed my cats ever again.;(
>
>Amy

I know what you mean about not feeling confident. My one cat was acting out of sorts, and so I took her to the vet. Now granted she has a bad tooth, so I figured it could be that. Her blood all came back fine, and the vet figure it is just her tooth. It needs to come out, but I don't have the $800.00 to pay for it. The vet wanted me to put her on wet food until her appetite came back. She suggested Chicken and broth babyfood. Then she said I could try some of the wet food they sell.....Well I just used the baby food for a day and a half then she decided to go back to her kibble. Thank God because the food the Vet office sell is Hills Brand. I know Hills said that they were pulling thiers just in case, but still I would have been worried sick if I had fed her that food. This whole thing still has me wondering about food. We feed only dry food, so we should be fine. Like I said in my first post, I think I may try the organic petfood store down the street. Do you have access to anything like that in your area? I might be worth a try.
 
Iam's cruelty is well documented, with an investigation of the Department of Agriculture which found the following:

Failure to provide pain relief in experiments that caused pain or distress
Failure to ensure that personnel were trained to perform experiments on animals
Failure to provide veterinary care and to observe animals daily
Failure to properly ventilate housing facilities for dogs and cats
Failure to house cats with a sufficient number of litterboxes and resting surfaces
Failure to keep animal-housing facilities clean and in good repair, resulting in injuries
Failure to maintain comfortable temperatures in animal-housing facilities
Failure to provide animals with sufficient space

But I don't need this investigation, or PETA telling us it is wrong, I just need to watch the video!

You may have met some great people there and some of them may be your friend, but with all due respect, just because you like them and they are "nice" doesn't mean this is not happening.

I don't agree with everything PETA does, but just because they do things that I don't agree with, doesn't mean EVERYTHING they are saying is wrong. That IMO is a little extreme!

Carola
 
>I don't agree with everything PETA does, but just because they
>do things that I don't agree with, doesn't mean EVERYTHING
>they are saying is wrong. That IMO is a little extreme!
>
>Carola

Carola, this is my last post here but I just want to say again; PETA is an irrational, activist, lunatic fringe group. I didn't say that every comment they make is a lie, but then lets not forget that every good liar relies on a certain amount of truth or else no one would follow them. Just because I tune out PETA doesn't mean that I am ill informed or extreme. PETA is not the be all and end all.
 
>I just want to say again; PETA is an irrational, activist, lunatic fringe group.

I am not sure why you had to repeat that.

I never said you are ill informed, I don't know you. I don't agree with some of your statements but this is the beauty of a free society, we all are allowed to have our own opinions and be outspoken about it :)


Carola
 
Slimmingmom,

I am going to look into organic pet food, I haven't seen an organic pet food store, but I know the health food store near me sells it so I will look into that. I didn't do it before because my cats love their IAMS and they do really well on it, but I think I will switch because of the pet food recall and also the animal cruelty issue. I'm wondering if any of the foods that were recalled are supposed to be organic. Hopefully not.

Have you checked into how much another vet would charge you to pull your cat's tooth? I'm sure you really like your vet and I don't know all the details about your cat's bad tooth, but one of my cats needed a tooth pulled and it was somewhere between $150 and $200, I don't remember exactly how much, but I know it wasn't anywhere near $800. Just a suggestion.

Good luck with everything.

Amy
 
Michele,
I understand that PETA is occasionally drastic, but what exactly have they lied about? And how exactly are they irrational and lunatics? Just wondering.

Carolyn
 
cat food

Amy,

there are also some online retailers with pretty good prices. In general much cheaper than the Health Food Store.

I think www.vitaminshoppe.com sells PetPromise which got pretty good reviews, I think it is endorsed by Dr. Andrew Weil. The vitaminshoppe is the cheapest I have found .

One of my cats will only eat kibble, so I have been feeding her Nature's Variety. I think it is a great brand, all humane grade ingredients, good reviews. You can find a local or online retailer on www.naturesvariety.com.

I don't know where you live, in my town they have a pet food homedelivery service - free delivery, maybe worth checking into.

I make the food for my dogs and one cat, the best book with the best recipes I have come across is Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Cats and Dogs. Some of the receipes are a little time consuming (for my taste :) ) some are pretty easy.


Good luck!

Carola
 
RE: cat food

Thanks Carola

I will look into your suggestions. I was worried about the cost of buying pet food at a health food store. I was planning on looking into Nature's Variety because I think they sell that at Petsmart.

I've been curious about making pet food, but it does sound time consuming. Maybe I'll look at that book you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Amy
 
RE: cat food

>there are also some online retailers with pretty good prices.
>In general much cheaper than the Health Food Store.

www.onlynaturalpet.com is a good source for human-grade natural foods for pets. None of their foods are affected by the recall.

I changed my cats over to Nature's Variety several weeks ago and their fur has never been softer! The vet said Bobsie feels like a chinchilla! I just hope it's doing as much for their insides as their outsides.

The price looks high at first, but the quantity of these premium foods that you are to feed them is less than with lesser-quality foods: I bought two large bags, and it looks like they are going to last my three cats 2 1/2 to 3 months.

I'd rather spend more money now on quality food that may reduce their risk of disease (which is costly to treat) in the future.
 
RE: cat food

>One of my cats will only eat kibble, so I have been feeding
>her Nature's Variety. I think it is a great brand, all humane
>grade ingredients, good reviews. You can find a local or
>online retailer on www.naturesvariety.com.

This is the food my cats are eating now.
One suggestion (if it will work): cats who eat only kibble take in much less water than cats who eat wet food, which can cause kidney problems in the future. They don't have a strong thirst drive, so won't take in the extra water to compensate on their own. I deal with this (and with my aversion to dealing with wet pet food) by putting some water in their bowls before I put the kibble in, then they end up drinking the water before they even start eating the kibble. Although sometimes they might give me dirty looks for doing this (on those days when I'm a bit heavy-handed with the water), they drink all the water.
 
>Slimmingmom,
>
I'm wondering if any of the
>foods that were recalled are supposed to be organic. Hopefully
>not.
>

It shouldn't be, because the reason for the recall was a pesticide used in China. And as we all know, Organics should have that! ;)

>
> Have you checked into how much another vet would charge you
>to pull your cat's tooth? I'm sure you really like your vet
>and I don't know all the details about your cat's bad tooth,
>but one of my cats needed a tooth pulled and it was somewhere
>between $150 and $200, I don't remember exactly how much, but
>I know it wasn't anywhere near $800. Just a suggestion.
>
>Good luck with everything.
>
>Amy

Thanks, we are moving in May to a town that has a Vet college. So we are going to see if we can take her there and get it done at a cheaper rate. That was the first time I had been to that vet, and I thought she was a little out to lunch on her price.
 
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