Lean Body Mass/Protein Intake

[morningstar]

For those of you that prefer to keep your protein intake relatively low (compared to, for instance, levels recommended in most fitness magazines) or prefer to only use vegetable sources of protein, I would be curious as to your body composition is, in terms of what your Lean Body Mass is in proportion to your body fat level. As protein is used to build and maintain muscle tissue, I was wondering how someone would build a strong body without the use of complete proteins in reasonable amounts. I know we all tend to have our ideas about proteins and what is right; I am wondering how our beliefs in this area translate to actual results on a physical level.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[LaughingWater]

Here's a page I found yesterday that addresses vegan strength training. I just started a vegan diet (2 weeks into it), and I started Meso #2 this morning, so I'll let you know how things go. I felt pretty good doing Disc 13.

RE: Protein

Right now, I've replaced skim milk with almond, rice, or hemp milk. I grind up hemp seeds and add this along with fruit for a protein smoothie that comes to about 17 to 22 gm of protein.

I've also added whole grain bread, flax, nuts, and beans to my diet, which helps. I'm shooting for 16% of protein, which for me is about 60 gm. I am having difficulty right now getting my numbers up there ~ averaging about 50 ~ but I had trouble in the beginning back when I started with animal protein a year ago. As time went on, I got better at it, so I'm hoping it will be the same with plant protein.

What I've noticed is that my total fat intake for the day is higher. It's not high in saturated fat, and I think I'm getting enough Omega 3 to stop taking my fish oil pill, but still...I don't like seeing such a high number. For example, to get 17 gm of protein from hemp seed, I also get 13 gm of fat.

I may find myself investing in an official Vegan protein powder down the road.

On the bright side, I'm no longer eating cheese, which I'm sure is what spiked my cholesterol from 176 to 200+ in the last year. I'm looking forward to bringing that down.

 

[hiitdogs]

The focus on the importance of protein in the diet is one of the major reasons we have been led down a path to dietary suicide. We were taught to equate protein with good nutrition and only animal proteins are "complete" proteins. If we hear something time and time again, we just accept it as being true. The myth that is being repeated over and over is that animal proteins are complete and plant proteins are incomplete and need to be complemented for adequate protein.

You don't need complete proteins (animal proteins) to build a strong body. Our body builds protein from amino acids, 9 of the 22 are not produced by our body and need to be supplied through food. Whereas animal based protein contains all essential (all 9) amino acids it also comes with the additional "perks" of saturated fat and arachidonic acid which are detremental to our health. The essential amino acids in animal protein have to first be broken down for our body to be able to digest and use it.

In fact, peas, green vegetables, and beans have more protein per calorie than meat. But what is not generally considered is that foods that are rich in plant protein are generally the foods that are richest in nutrients and phytochemicals. By eating more of these high-nutrient, low calorie foods we get plenty of protein, and our bodies get flooded with protective micronutrients simultaneously. Animal protein does not contain antioxidants and phtyochemicals, plant protein does.

Instead of improving our health this "we need complete proteins and only animal protein is the way get it" mantra has brought forth a heart attack and cancer epidemic.

Vegetarians actually have a better chance of increasing their strength and size (as in muscle size). Eating animal based proteins can actually slow down your metabolism because it takes so much energy to digest it whereas with a vegetarian diet, your body actually speeds up its digestion.

In my case, I had been increasing the protein in my diet on several occassions because I had also bought into the myth that I needed complete proteins and higher amounts of protein to lose body fat and gain strength. The only thing I gained was that I couldn't sustain my workouts anymore and had cravings and binge eating attacks to boot. Let's not even go where my weight ended up and how my bloodwork changed for the worse.

Personally, I would say, that I would not sacrifice my health over short term gains in my body composition or look but in fact during that time my strength and endurance increased, I am able to run 10 miles which I have never done before even when I was really fit and at my ideal weight, I just finished my Slow and Heavy rotation. During that rotation I lost not only 10 lbs but also dropped 7 more % in body fat. The fat is taking a hike and there actually is visible muscle underneath.

I don't build muscle easily, I was always toned before I gained the massive amount of weight but this is the first time that I my muscles are visible.

For me this works because I believe that my body gets all the nutrients it needs, I eat so I can fuel my workouts and be able to go longer and more effective. Proteins won't do that, the right carbs do.

Whereas I do eat fish once or twice a week, my main source of protein is leafy vegetables, spirulina, hemp, nuts, seeds and lentils/beans.

 

[Jennifit]

I love you, Carola!! As a veggie head for 17 years, you said it all for me!

 

[LaughingWater]

Sometimes I think we worry too much about this stuff. Not that I don't see the value in keeping track and making necessary changes, but worrying about 1 g per kilo vs 1 g per pound, soy vs. whey, carbs in the AM vs carbs in the PM, how much protein per serving, yadda yadda...it all gets annoying after a while.

Did BM2 Cardio Blast this morning and knocked out 20 push ups on my toes for the first time though. I keep waiting to see if my energy level will drop off since giving up animal protein, but so far, that isn't happening.

 

[messyjess]

Sometimes I think we worry too much about this stuff. Not that I don't see the value in keeping track and making necessary changes, but worrying about 1 g per kilo vs 1 g per pound, soy vs. whey, carbs in the AM vs carbs in the PM, how much protein per serving, yadda yadda...it all gets annoying after a while.

Did BM2 Cardio Blast this morning and knocked out 20 push ups on my toes for the first time though. I keep waiting to see if my energy level will drop off since giving up animal protein, but so far, that isn't happening.

Amen I could've not said it better myself. Sometimes I feel like this takes a life all of its own! A while ago I was so concerned about carb/pro/fat ratios and eating enough protein and taking bcaa's and glutemin and all sorts of other stuff. WHY? WHY?WHY? I'm not a athlete. I'm just me. Someone's mom someone's wife and friend. I am just me. Who the heck cares? Once I let it all go I felt so much better. Now I just try to eat the best I can so what if one of my meals isnt 100% clean and I had a lean cuisine for lunch? Sorry for the rant!!!!

 

[janie1234]

Sometimes I think we worry too much about this stuff.

Agreed! I've got to much to worry about. This is why I don't weigh myself or count calories. By the way good job on those push ups. Isn't it funny how empowered you feel when you realize you can do "boy" pushups?

 

[SRP]

I agree with Carola and others here. I just don't think that protein in excess of a normal, healthy diet is necessary - unless you are seriously into body building and gaining lots of muscle mass. Then you probably will have to make some major diet changes.

I've been a vegetarian since... oh, 1989 I think, and lately I'm getting a bit closer to veganism. I've got decent muscle, and I've never had trouble getting the protein I need. I've never counted grams, mixed and matched foods, or anything. As long as you eat a sensible, healthy diet, there's plenty of protein to go around.

 

[morningstar]

I appreciate all your responses, but no one answered my actual question. Which is cool, whatever.

 

[hiitdogs]

I appreciate all your responses, but no one answered my actual question. Which is cool, whatever.

I thought your questions was "I am wondering how our beliefs in this area translate to actual results on a physical level."

Actual results 98 lbs lost, body fat from 52 % to 34 % so far, with 10 lbs and 7 % body fat lost in the last 21 days on a Slow&Heavy rotation with only plant-based protein at an average level of 10 to 15 %.

It seems like you prefer complete proteins? I am curious as to what do you eat and what are the results?

 

[morningstar]

I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian for the last 23 years. I get my protein from a variety of sources. For most of those 23 years, I got very little protein. I now get lots- over 100g per day, most days. I lost 125lbs, lost about 30%body fat, and currently have a lean muscle mass of 115lbs and body fat of 32%.

 

[deanie]

Hi,

I was a vegetarian for years, got pregnant, craved red meat and ate meat for about 10ish years before going back to vegetarianism about 3 years ago.

That was a great question about how much protein and how it affects muscle growth. I started tracking my calories with Fitday about a year ago, trying to stay with in the ratios of:
fat 20%
protein 25%
carbs 55%

I was finding this very hard as a vegetarian. Beans, fruits and veggies are all high in carbs. I am now at the point where I want to give up fitday, but I am worried about too many carbs!! I do eat fish 2X a week, but otherwise my protein also comes from tofu, beans, veggies and some dairy. its all very confusing to me. The only thing fitday really helped with was that I wasn't eating enough calories. I did bump my calories up with no weight gain.

The reason I started tracking was because I workout, but wasn't "looking like I work out" I wanted to eat more protein and get more muscle.... even after almost a year of fitday, I still pretty much look the same. (not looking to lose weight I'm usually a 2 or 4 petite)

Am I correct in thinking if I eat lots of fruit and veggies, beans, fish, tofu 2X a week and my daily greek yogurt, I am getting enough protein and the "right" carbs and I can stop all this obsessive tracking? its really driving me crazy!

sorry if my post is all over the place its a great question the od posted and I've been thinking about it since this post.

PS~ Carola:: great response about the protein thing! I also put on some inches when I upped my protein!

 

[SRP]

Morningstar - I've never actually taken/meaured my actual body composition. But like I said in my first post, I have pretty good muscle mass, and I'd say a normal range body fat - definitely not low like competitive body builders have!

As for your question about "how someone would build a strong body without the use of complete proteins in reasonable amounts," - well, I think several people answered that by saying that as a vegetarian, you don't really have to worry about it. A healthy vegetarian diet provides plenty of the protein the body needs.

I hope this helps!