Hypertrophy Specific Training??? (sorry it's long)

briee

Cathlete
I don't know if any of you checked out the site that Shaz posted in an earlier thread to Janice. If not here it is again, www.hypertrophy-specific.com . I would like to know what you think of this, I would love to know what Maribeth thinks. There seems to be lots of research on it, but I haven't the time to check out the footnotes thoroughly, so wondered if any of you have any experience.

In a nutshell, the system of HST is to do a two week cycle using 15 reps per set (for one or two sets) for a total of 6 sessions of lifting (MW and F and the same the following week). You find your max that you can lift in the 15 rep range and then subtract weight from that point so that your first session you are lifting not too heavy, but by session number 6 you are doing your max at 15 reps. Then the following two week cycle you do the same except at 10 reps, then the next two weeks cycle you do the same but at 5 reps. The concept is that you keep progressively loading your muscles so that by the 6th session you are lifting your heaviest. He also states that as you get used to this system you can play with it....as in you can progressively load weights starting Monday with high reps low weight and progressing through the six days of lifting with a heavy low rep day by day six. I hope I'm making sense here. I had to read it a few times to catch it all.

I saw the best results in muscle hypertrophy while I was doing the TTR rotation and as I looked at what I did (PS on Monday, CTX Upper on Wednesday and S&H All upper Friday and Saturday) it is somewhat similar to this concept although if I do this again, I would start Monday with CTX upperbody as it is a higher rep, lower weight workout, PS all upperbody on Wednesday as it utilizes 10 reps at heavier weights, and I'd conclude with heavy, heavy weights on Friday or Saturday, thus inducing the "progressive loaded effect". I'm trying to figure how I could make this work over a two week cycle so I can get the six session loading progression, but either way, I believe the concept is the same.

Also, Janice, I was thinking about how you said you felt like your heavy lifting is stagnating, just not going anywhere. This "system" should break this feeling, as you progressively load and you are not getting mentally frustrated staying at a certain weight all the time. I've been playing with this and I'm loving it. I used to get frustrated lifting "endurance type" high rep low weight workouts, but now I see their purpose. Also, supposedly, the high rep, low weight workouts help to increase resistance to injury as well as increase functional capacity and set up your muscles to get ready for heavier lifting, which I have seen to be true.

Last of all, after 6 weeks of this, they recommend a one week strategic deconditioning, which in the past I never did. I didn't want to "loose" what I have achieved, but while I was sick and pregnant, taking a few days off, not only helped heal a muscle in my back that had bothered me for weeks, but it seemed to set up my muscles to respond once again to heavy lifting. As I got "right back at it" my muscles felt that burn once again. Hope this made a little sense - I've been known for spewing my thoughts out and making little sense, which is especially true while I'm pregnant. For those of you interested in hypertrophy, read the site, it makes it much more clear. Sorry this got so long, but I'm REALLY interesting in your thoughts.

Briee
 
OOOHHH!!! Briee, very educated post here. I'm going to check this out! I think it might be just what the doctor ordered!

came back to say I wish the dang thing was in e-book format. I hate reading long stuff on the computer.
 
Briee..
Thanks for bringing this up again. To tell you the truth I had forgotten to check it out!! I have had so many new ideas in my head lately I am making myself sick!

I don't have the mental power to check this out tonight but will this weekend and let you know what I think. I will tell you however that the trainer I have been seeing on and off has told me that muscle gain should no longer be my primary goal. He seemed fairly amazed at how much mass I had for so little lifting per week! I guess that is a good thing!! So I might now try a program that requires much less time than full out one hour Cathe tapes and save the majority of my workouts for high intensity cardio.

I mean I have been looking into everything nowadays! Fighting the boredom, I have been boot camp training in classes, looking into kickboxing, buying kickboxing stuff, all new vids...you know how it goes. The trainer I have been seeing once per week has me doing heavy lifting but in a superset style that really suprised me in its intensity. I thought I would never find something as intense as Cathe, but if you look real good, you can!!
Talk to you more on Monday. Hope everything is going well for you and your almost new one!!

Janice
 
OOOOHHH... forgot to tell you....

As part of the package I got when I purchased the personal training sessions for my husband, I got a BodyGem session. The BodyGem is that little handheld device that measures your metabolism (it is really scientific!). Don't know about the accuracy of it..it is supposed to be pretty accurate...but I did it and it told me that my resting metabolic rate, that is before exercise and daily activities, was 2290 calories PER DAY!!! I thought that was pretty good considering I am only 5'0-5'1"!!

Of course, since I am not a lean mean machine, that also means I eat WAY TOO MUCH!! LOL!!! It started out as good news!!HA!
Janice
 
Janice...I swear, you have the coolest little devices, I'd love to measure my metabolism. I believe all your cross training will pay off and makes life a lot more interesting. I tend to get stuck in ruts and "breaking out" can be beneficial. I became interested in "why" the number one rotation that seems to help upperbody development is the TTR and I want to know why "scientifically". I believe the TTR could be tweaked and improved on to show maximum hypertrophy (if that is what one's looking for) if it is correlated to this training. Of course you can just use this training system as is (and I like that the system doesn't take much time, 40-45 minutes three days per week to do all sets), but I also find that when I'm doing higher reps/lower weight like those done in CTX upperbody...I have more fun doing them with Cathe and I stay focused and motivated doing them along with the group. Slow and Heavy lifting, I prefer to do on my own. I also like to split my upper and lower body days.

If I can at least grasp how hypertrophy occurs, then I can play with my workouts to follow this pattern, but it can be flexible enough that I can do a 6 week cycle or a two week cycle, etc. I can then fit in Cathe tapes that correspond to where I am at in my progression of progressive load layering (just to make it interesting). For instance, if I am starting out a cycle, I could do PUB, but go really light (it normally mentally kills me not to do my max....BUT now there is a purpose). And it seems to fit in with my normal bodily swings....as in some weeks I seem to have no energy...that's the week I should be starting my cycle at lighter weights/higher reps and mentally I'll be ready for a real heavy day by the end of the cycle. Make any sense????? Just some observations.

I'd really LOVE to hear from Maribeth...hint hint

Briee
 
Thanks, Briee this is fascinating stuff. I want to know how it applies to Cathe's weight workouts.

Bumping for Maribeth!:7

Julie
 
Hi Briee,
I'm hoping you see this because I would love to try a TTR rotation that uses the accomodation you mention above (doing CTX first) and also incorporates workouts from the Intensity Series. I confess I'm a little confused about the overall concept and I don't know how to adjust the original TTR for the above changes. If you would, could you layout a sample rotation for a week or two depending on how you would cycle it? Oh dear, I hope I've explained myself....-joy
 
Hi Briee! Well I train according to BodyRX which BTW is somewhat similar to this program but we have 4 cycles each one lasting 6 wks. The first cycle you lift weights as heavy as you can using good form but only eeking out 6-8 reps 3 sets & rest 3 min. in between each set. The 2nd cycle has you doing 8-10 reps 4 sets for large muscle groups & 5 sets for small taking only a 1 1/2 min. rest in between. The 3rd cycle your doing 5 sets for large & 6 for small but doing 12-15 reps & only taking a 1 min. rest. Boy this will get you; I'm exhausted by the time I'm finished! Cycle 4 is just all muscle endurance for 6 wks. I've never plateaued using this & I'm weight training for only 4 dys. opposed to this 6 dy. program; that's a lot in my opinion. This 4 dy. training is more doable. I've attained much more muscularture; even my husband comments on how beautiful my arms now look. This HST sounds interesting though. Kathy
 
Hi Kathy, I do have the BFL book and my husband has done this (for a period of time), but as I looked over the HST method, it differs quite a bit from BFL in that it continually loads weight with each session. In other words through out your 2 weeks (6 sessions of lifting) you start out doing a more endurance high rep/low weight session and by the end of the 2 weeks you are lifting your max.

I'm doing a kind of experiment at this time, kind of playing with the TTR and HST. I'm going to do CTX upperbody on Monday with lighter weights, PS upperbody on wednesday, using moderate weights and very heavy lifting on Fri or Sat (for upperbody), I may even do this all lighter the first week and then progressively increasing until the end of the second week I'm lifting my max. From what I can glean from this site, the main idea is to continually get heavier each session and then start over for the next session and always take a one week break every 6-8 weeks or so. For legs, I'm not going to alter my lowerbody routine at this time as I have seen so much development and wasn't even trying. I always do LL and PLB ball work on Tuesdays and then Slow and Heavy on Friday or Saturday with PLB ball work again. This just seems to work for me.

Almost any program you use seems to work until you reach that point where you're in pretty good shape, then things seem to slow down. I'm kind of at that point and would love to break through this with the HST (which is one of their goals). I would love to know what Jaishree does (from Cathe's video), she has become so incredibly defined and ripped since her previous videos - she has to be doing something intense!! :) :) :) :) :)

Briee
 
Briee,

I've got several questions for you on this. But I've only got time for this one: where does cardio fit in with the program? Do "they" offer any suggestions?

I have to say you've got this old ecto quite titillated with this new idea, because I have not seen exciting results in a while. Burned out on S&H, I think.

More later,

Julie:7

PS-Thanks, Briee, you're a dolly!:+
 
Hi Briee! I'm still debating whether or not I should try this; does sound interesting to go w/CTX & then PS & then S&H; never worked my muscles this way. Just came off from doing PS for 6 wks. & not that anxious to get back to it so soon. Right now I'm doing all muscle endurance for 6 wks.to see if that'll give me that ripped look. I too would love to know how Jai did it; she said she did have a personal trainer & her bodyfat got so low that's why your able to see so much of her muscles. Its not really the intensity its the diet. Love that look. Thanks for getting back to me. Your such a sweetie! Kathy
 
What cardio....cardio is for the birds!!! OOOOOKKKKKAAYYY, just kidding. Since I'm not seeing the Ecto chick thread, I'm going to post my week here.

Monday - CTX upperbody and C&W AB work only (I love C&W abwork)
Tuesday - LL and PLB ball work (you need that ball work to hit those hamstrings, I just don't work them enough with LL)
Wednesday - PS all upper moderate weight
Thursday - CARDIO (see there it is!! enjoy it and do a great blast, see Aquajock for great blasts, this is not my specialty)
Friday - Upperbody heavy, ala AJ (I'll have to try to email you this)
Saturday - I do IMAX II either half of all and then S&H legs from Cathe. And I sometimes add PLB again - ball work only.
Sunday - rest or usually a bike ride with the family

Now..... I am no expert in HST yet and I'm playing with this. I would go light on the CTX upperbody (in the past I got so frustrated with CTX upperbody because I was trying to do my max and I'm NOT an endurance queen, I swear I have no slow twitch fibers in this whole body, and it was literally the hardest video for me to finish and with obviously lighter weights than slow and heavy. Now I know there is a purpose for going lighter on this and my body seems just as taxed, but happier if this makes sense). As stated PS would be moderate weight and heavy is REALLY heavy.

Now granted this is only spanning a week and I want to span more of a two week cycle as they recommend.

I thought about doing a week of this

Monday PH really light (which would cover the whole body - doesn't it just sound fun doing PH light and still having purpose, maybe I could actually enjoy it :9 :9 :9 )
Tuesday - some cardio (HST recommends treadmill walking, but I'd probably do a Cathe step or maybe even IMAX II.
Wednesday - Maybe ME and go light to moderate with weights
Thursday - more cardio of ones choosing
Friday - How about PS moderate in weight upperbody and follow with some moderate lunges and squats and plies.
Saturday - Cardio
Sunday - rest

Then follow this week with the first week I listed. I DON'T KNOW....I want to stress I'm playing with this and my idea is to take those six sessions and progressively do weights heavier until by that sixth session I'm going really heavy. You can be versatile in the workouts you do. I would just start with workouts that are higher rep lower weight and progess to workouts with less reps and heavy weights by the sixth workout (end of two week cycle).

I am hoping this will help me break through some lifting plateaus as I feel like I'm kind of stuck. I will say it is helping me to avoid some injury that I was experiencing when I was lifting heavy 3 days per week. For others, heavy all the time seems to work and they do well, but for a period of time I want to try this and see if what happens. Sorry to ramble on so....but that's what this is forum is for, right? }( }( }( }( . (I'm just emptying my little HST intrigued brain on you all)

Briee
 
THANK YOU BRIEE!!!:D Keep on emptying that brain here. Editing to add that I looked at this closely and wonder what you think about using MIS as the workout for the Friday of week one (the week starting with PH) rather than PS Upper body + squats and lunges? -joy
 
Briee, tell me if I've run amok.

(Actually, Briee, I know, you know Julie's always amok.)

In your initial explanation you mentioned doing the 15, 10 and 5 rep w/o's for two weeks. So I'm thinking a feasible interpretation of that may be like so:

Week One
Mon-Power Hour Light weights
Wed-Power Hour Moderate weights
Fri-Power Hour Heaviest weights

Week Two
Repeat week one

Week Three
Mon-MIS Light
Wed-MIS Moderate
Fri-MIS Heaviest

Week Four
Repeat week three

Week Five
Mon-S&H Light
Wed-S&H Moderate
Fri-S&H Heavy

Week Six
Repeat week five

From there, incorporate the programs together in one week such as:

Mon-Power Hour Light
Wed-MIS Moderate
Fri-S&H Heavy

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Am I grasping the principles here? (I almost typed principals! Ha!)Be sure and correct me if not. I am so excited about this. I hope it works.

Thanks, Briee:7

Julie:p :p :p
 
Joy, sounds like a better plan than the PS and squats and lunges. I'd do MIS!!! Like I keep saying, this is an experiment to me!!:) :) I would love to hear from Maribeth or someone who has tried this method of lifting, but I'm happy to be a guinnea pig!!!

Briee
 
RE: Julie, I'm more amuk that you - trust me on this on...

Julie, I'm so sorry that I missed this - it's a pregnancy, mental breakdown kind of a thing (that seems to occur whether I'm pregnant or not).

I have thought about your plan and I think it's great and what I really like is that it is a 6 week plan that doesn't get boring, lots of change in there. I believe when he mentioned on the HST site that you can play with the increasing loads - that's just what you have done. One thing I will point out is that his original plan is to continually load in a progressive manner spanning the whole two weeks. In other words, he says, if your max for 8 reps of squats is 65# than in session number 6 you would be doing this weight and you would subtract 5# per session back to session number 1. In other words session one would be 40#, session 2 - 45#, session 3 - 50#, session 4 - 55#, session 5 - 60# and ending session 6 at your max. I believe he is also gearing his examples towards men as it's just not feasible to drop in 5# increments for all exercises that I do. i.e. if you do biceps curls at your max and this is 20# you really can't decrease by that much per session, (I refuse to do bicep curls with 5# pound weights!). So I guess I like adapting his plan to do just what you have stated and span the week, for two weeks in a row. I'm very tempted to get on his forum and ask some of these questions and just may do this (yikes, I've never even visited another forum before, and this consumes enough of my time!!!). Part of me wants to strictly follow his plan for 6 weeks and see what happens, and the other pregnant braindead part of me just can't function right now without Cathe telling me what to do. I intend to strictly follow his method either in a few weeks or post pregnancy.

I will say that I am seeing some shoulder definition starting to appear, of course this is really clear when I lift my arms up, like while doing shoulder presses, but I want clear definition while I'm NOT FLEXING (in any lighting, at any angle, and while standing closer than 20 feet from the mirror and wearing my contact lenses!! :p :p :p) and have I ever mentioned that I want that bicep vein?

Briee
 
RE: Julie, I'm more amuk that you - trust me on this on...

Briee,

I wanted to let you know that last week when I read your post that I found it very interesting to say the least. I have been weight training for years with Cathe's tapes. But I have always done rotations of all one series. I guess I never thougth of interchanging them.

It was like a light bulb went off in my head. Actually, I was just finishing up a 3 week rotation with the S & H series. So, I started a new rotation on Sunday - I am very excited, because I really needed some more variety and to break things up. So, I am going to try what you have said about HST.

Here is what my weight training will consist of:

Sunday:

Leaner Legs

Monday:

CTX Upper Body

Tuesday:

LBP

Wednesday:

P.S. Chest, Back, Shoulders, Tricpes and Biceps

Thursday:

S & H Legs

Friday:

S & H Triceps & Biceps

Saturday:

S & H Chest & Shoulders

I will only do my back 2x a week for I read in this forum before about only needing to do the back and chest 2x's a week. I will be doing my chest 3x's though, for I do like the S & H Chest workout alot.

I do my cardio workouts in the morning and my weight training in the evening, which has given me great results by breaking it up. I love experimenting with my workouts and of course we all need the change of pace.

I have always thought I needed to stick to one series at a time, why I have had that mentality I do not know - This has been fun and refreshing. But I must say going from S & H to the CTX Upper Body has been a real change - there is really no breaks in the CTX and when Cathe says to take a rest I laugh for it is only for about 5 seconds. My muscles realy do need this to shake them up a little bit.

Thanks for all of your information! How is your pregnancy going?

Cheryl
 
RE: Julie, I'm more amuk that you - trust me on this on...

Cheryl that's exactly how I felt when I read the HST info....like a light bulb went on in my head. I was at first thinking....that's why we get results from the TTR, although they could be even better, and it went from there. Your workout sounds pretty intense, I'm only doing my legs 2 days a week, but maybe I'll try this, we'll see.

CTX upperbody is a real change - I hate endurance tapes, I usually love pushups, but not in CTX.....I'm so fatigued by the time I get to these that they wipe me out. For some reason, the tricep pushups at the end are a little easier than those terrible half way/all the way down ones in the middle. I can't wait to see what results you get, keep us posted.

I forgot to add....the pregnancy is going....but I can't wait to get past this sick, yucky stage. Should be any day now!!!! Thanks for asking!!

Julie, I tried emailing you and it was rejected....I hate rejection :p :p :p, what's your email or just update it on the forum!!! :p :p :p :p :p
 
RE: Julie, I'm more amuk that you - trust me on this on...

Brie,

I get the best results from doing my legs 3x's a week. My legs have gotten very defined since I started that. When I did the S & H series, I did Chest & Back 2x's a week, Triceps & Biceps 2x's a week, and the Legs & Shoulders 3x's a week. The only reason I did shoulders 3x's is because it goes with the legs workout, plus I like to work my shoulders a little bit more.

My shoulders have definitely come a long way. When I did the P.S. series tonight I was surprised at how much more I could lift than when I did it before (which has been a year) - I realize now that I have made significant gains. I could do the decline pushups off the step without a problem. One year ago I couldn't even do the straight leg pushups, I had to do them on my knees.

It is nice to see all of you women who do weight training, especially concentrating on the upper body, too. I am 47 and I can wear tank tops with confidence - I surely don't want those flappy arms.

Cheryl
 

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