Friend seeing married man?

newswoman13

newswoman13

Cathlete
Hi all.

I need some objective opinions. How easy it is to give advice when it's not to yourself!

I have a very close friend named "Sally". We've grown really close in the past year, and I love her dearly. We're mid-20s. We click on so many social issues and both have a lot of passion for ideas, dreams, values. Well, I thought we clicked on values.

About 5 months ago, she transferred to a different work unit and started getting friendly with a co-worker who's married w/ child. She carefully opened up about this saying they'd been to some drinks, a kiss here and there, etc. I immediately told her I do not condone that behavior, that she needs to check into why she feels so badly about herself to stoop to such a sick level. (and, I was pretty blunt, basically said those words) I also told her I know no one is perfect, but I would not support her or him in any sort of relationship and that I didn't want to have anything to do with it or her if it continued.

Let me preface this by saying infidelity runs in my family -- hitting "close to home" quite literally when I found a videotape sent to my mom from a P.I. of my dad and another woman when I was 12 years old. My parents divorced a year later. Now, I know affairs are layered by many other things, but like I said, I do not condone that behavior for a second. That's playing with fire.

Long story short, after the first clump of the affair, "Sally" cried cried cried and stopped it. She felt badly for doing such a "wrong thing" and that her parents would disown her if they knew. I told her she needed therapy to figure out why she did it in the first place; otherwise, she'd do it again. She sought therapy...Of course, I'm not sure if she's been honest about this issue w/ her therapist; that's none of my business to ask though we're pretty open/honest with each other about other things as we mutually share.

So, zoom down to a few months later. I live in a large city. We're talking 8 mill+. I pulled out of the bank drive-thru one day in a totally far away area of town from work (I'm off work that day), and I passed a Mexican restaurant, and I saw Sally and Jerk walking into a restaurant. At the time, I didn't know it was Jerk as I'd never met him or seen him. I called out her name from my car, but she didn't hear me. She came over later that evening as we were preparing to go out for dinner. I casually told her I'd seen her (having the slightest suspicion, but I gave her the benefit of the doubt), and she was stunned. Dumbfounded. Breathless. I pretty much knew. But, I didn't push the issue b/c we were headed to dinner w/ friends...A few weeks later, I casually asked via an IM at work who she was with at the restaurant. She says him. That it was a slip, a "relapse". She felt badly for not telling me the truth initially. I really didn't reply....it was time for me to go home.

So, here I am feeling like such a dummy. I thought I knew this girl, and I told her how sick it makes me feel for her to do that in the first place. And, it's not only about HER (what a concept!) and her compulsion, but it's about someone else's family. He may be a loser, but she doesn't need to contribute to the dirty cause.

I suppose my conflict is deciding if I should bring it up again, or if I should back off this friendship gently until she can come to terms with some underlying personal issues. I can't babysit or save her. It's up to her to act like a responsible, reasonable, healthy adult.

I guess I answered my own question...Her bday dinner is tomorrow night w/ about 6 girls. I feel like I need to tell her I still feel sick about the whole thing...I guess I was silly to expect her to drop it like a hot potato overnight. I just don't appreciate or enjoy that negative energy...and I don't support it. Any thoughts or similar experiences?

Thanks.


;-)
 
If it were me, I would stay friends with her. I would not drop the friendship over this. This is what friendship is all about...being there through thick and thin. I am not saying to support or condone what she is doing but as a friend, I think it's only right that you do not desert her simply because you disagree with her actions. Yes, she has delved into an area that caused you great pain in the past but she is not directly doing you any harm. Stick around and see if maybe you can make a positive difference. :)

JMHO!
 
I had a similar situation several years ago. I was good friends with a woman who was wonderful to me, but terrible to her husband and kids. She had an affair with a neighbor right under her husband's nose. He was friends with this neighbor and would invite the guy over for drinks, cookouts, etc. She did all kinds of things like that and I just couldn't take anymore - there were worse things involved that I can't go into on a public forum, but I couldn't just be supportive while she acted so selfishly and destructively. We eventually stopped talking - there was no argument or anything, but she could tell how I felt and I think she felt judged. We just stopped calling each other - I think it was unpleasant for both of us. We haven't spoken in over 5 years. I do miss her friendship, but I don't miss the constant drama at all.

Erica
 
I'd say drop her like a hot potato! I would never knowingly maintain a friendship with someone who was capable of such evil. Yes, I said EVIL. The guy's a pig but we're not talking about him. Look at it this way--if you were married and she was having an affair with your husband would you still want to be friends with her? Would you want to help her celebrate her birthday? Would you consider her to be honorable and trustworthy?

This woman has no respect for marriage OR friendship. When I consider my friendships I can tell you in no uncertain terms that I want my friends to be proud to know me. I want them to feel confident in the trust they place in me. I don't ever want to give them a cause to doubt my integrity. That is what friendship means to me. This girl only cares about herself, she has no time to worry about friends.
 
I agree, affairs are very, very common. That's not to say you should support it. It's just they are a simple human mistake. Relationships are hard and complicated. It's easy to say I would never! Find yourself in a midlife crisis and a stagnant relationship and what you never thought you would do you may end up doing. She's likely to get very hurt in this dynamic, and you judging her for her mistake will not be helpful or kind. She might end up supporting you through some ugly things too.
Heather
 
This is not a hypothetical for me. A friend of mine took up with another man while married to her husband, who was also a friend of mine. Her husband then took up with her best friend. They are now divorced (the original couple). Do I condone it? Hell, no, and they know it. But I'm still friends with all of them. Why? I don't really know but I would have to say that it is because I believe that my friends are more than their affairs, and that I have done some majorly stupid things in my own life. I've always been grateful for my friends' honesty and support when they could just as easily have thrown their hands in the air and written me off as a hopeless case.

HTH,

Sparrow


My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
This is not a hypothetical for me. A friend of mine took up with another man while married to her husband, who was also a friend of mine. Her husband then took up with her best friend. They are now divorced (the original couple). Do I condone it? Hell, no, and they know it. But I'm still friends with all of them. Why? I don't really know but I would have to say that it is because I believe that my friends are more than their affairs, and that I have done some majorly stupid things in my own life. I've always been grateful for my friends' honesty and support when they could just as easily have thrown their hands in the air and written me off as a hopeless case.

HTH,

Sparrow


My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
I guess I'm the black sheep here (nothing too unusual about that--lol). Just for clarification, this isn't a hypothetical for me, either. I'm not above forgiveness and I don't feel hatred for those who would defile another's marriage, but I'm not about to reward them with my trust and friendship. It would completely change the tone and tenor of my relationship with that person.

I'm not perfect by any means and I've done many things in life that I regret, but where do we draw the line? I always try to ask myself this question--would I like this person and want to be their friend if they did this to me? If the answer is no then I have to step away from the friendship. To me it's like saying that it's okay to do harm to so-and-so and we'll be friends just as long as you don't do that to me.


ETA that since GraceNote posted above I am no longer the black sheep:p . GraceNote, I agree with you completely!
 
I'd have to say that I wouldn't be able to be the same kind of friend to her if it was me. Integrity and honesty are pretty big items for me, and she seems lacking in both. I need to trust my friends and she doesn't seem to be giving off the 'trust' vibe. She's lied to you and is doing something that she says she knows is wrong. If you hadn't seen her, do you think she would have told you? If she considers YOU a friend, she should have. This speaks volumes to me that you had to catch her, so to speak.

This is a really biggie to me - affairs may be common, but not among the people I chose to associate with. And when did that become an excuse for bad behavior, anyway? Just because everyone else is doing it...oh wait, I'm turning into my mother for a minute there...but you know what I mean. If a thing is wrong, it's wrong no matter who does it. There's nothing wrong with supporting her if/when she's ready to turn her life around, but for now, what good can come from remaining in close contact with her? To be there for the daily ups and downs until he either 1.) dumps her or 2.) the wife finds out and the drama REALLY begins?

Well, just my opinions, here. Hope you find your way through this and that your friend gets herself straightened out before hurting any MORE people...
 
I agree with Wendy & Sparrow here. I think it's good that you were honest w/ her and I understand if you've lost some respect for her, but I wouldn't end the friendship, either. It's her mistake to make, IMO.
 
This is a terrible situation to be in, and I am so sorry that you are in it, or that anyone would have to be involved in something like this - especially his wife and child!!!! I don't have much experience with this and friends, but I do have some feelings!

I am such a huge fan of integrity and honor, but an even bigger fan of standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves - namely in this instance his wife and child. Who the heck is thinking about that child!?!? I don't know of anyone who is involved in anything like this, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to let them know that there is a person on the other side of this who this man has committed himself to and made vows to and that they have a child as a product of this precious union. Yes, she wants him and the desire is deep, but how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot and she was the mother waiting for her husband to get home from the arms of another woman with their child in her arms? What kind of future does she think that she has with him and what makes her think that he wouldn't/won't do the same to her?

As a friend, I couldn't stand by and watch someone I care about destroy a family and commit adultery. As a wife and a mother the whole thing is completely revolting to me and I have could never respect or trust someone who is willing to create heartbreak so she can have what she wants. I honestly don't know if I could continue to be friends with someone who is willing to do something like that, I don't care if it sounds mean or heartless. What they are doing is mean and heartless and it is my business because what if it was my man??? I have to stand up for all married women, not just myself.

One of my parents had an affair on the other, and without going into details I can tell you the reprocussions of that affair has affected the kids, and some of us are still struggling with it and messed up as adults, so much more than it did the adults. They got over it and moved on and we are still left to deal with insecurities and fear. Do that kid a favor since there is no adult that you know acting as an adult on his behalf, do what you can to knock some sense into your friend. If she really cared about him, she would care enough to want what is best for him and that includes his wife and child. She is only thinking on her behalf when she continues this affair.

Sorry this is so long, I really hope that everything works out.

ETA that my parent's affair did end in bitter divorce which did lead to a whole notha' can of worms and series of bad spouses and blah blah blah... but nobody was happy in the end, not even the other person.

Missy
 
>This is a terrible situation to be in, and I am so sorry that
>you are in it, or that anyone would have to be involved in
>something like this - especially his wife and child!!!! I
>don't have much experience with this and friends, but I do
>have some feelings!
>
>I am such a huge fan of integrity and honor, but an even
>bigger fan of standing up for those who can't stand up for
>themselves - namely in this instance his wife and child. Who
>the heck is thinking about that child!?!? I don't know of
>anyone who is involved in anything like this, but if I did I
>wouldn't hesitate to let them know that there is a person on
>the other side of this who this man has committed himself to
>and made vows to and that they have a child as a product of
>this precious union. Yes, she wants him and the desire is
>deep, but how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot
>and she was the mother waiting for her husband to get home
>from the arms of another woman with their child in her arms?
>What kind of future does she think that she has with him and
>what makes her think that he wouldn't/won't do the same to
>her?
>
>As a friend, I couldn't stand by and watch someone I care
>about destroy a family and commit adultery. As a wife and a
>mother the whole thing is completely revolting to me and I
>have could never respect or trust someone who is willing to
>create heartbreak so she can have what she wants. I honestly
>don't know if I could continue to be friends with someone who
>is willing to do something like that, I don't care if it
>sounds mean or heartless. What they are doing is mean and
>heartless and it is my business because what if it was my
>man??? I have to stand up for all married women, not just
>myself.
>
>One of my parents had an affair on the other, and without
>going into details I can tell you the reprocussions of that
>affair has affected the kids, and some of us are still
>struggling with it and messed up as adults, so much more than
>it did the adults. They got over it and moved on and we are
>still left to deal with insecurities and fear. Do that kid a
>favor since there is no adult that you know acting as an adult
>on his behalf, do what you can to knock some sense into your
>friend. If she really cared about him, she would care enough
>to want what is best for him and that includes his wife and
>child. She is only thinking on her behalf when she continues
>this affair.
>
>Sorry this is so long, I really hope that everything works
>out.
>
>Missy


Very well said, Missy. I wish I would've made as strong a statement as you did. I agree with you 110%.
 
It's not exactly hypothetical for me either. My old college roommate had a passion for married men. Never dated a single one as far as I know. Ended up marrying the superintendent of her school district (she's a music teacher) and destroying his marriage. I think it was the thrill of the challenge for her. I hung with her until I ended up going out (ONCE - and it was ONLY a dinner date - nothing more - not even a good night kiss!) with a married man, then I realized that her being my friend was warping my judgement. I haven't spoken to her since. As far as I know she's still married to the cheater. I wonder if he's cheating on her now...
 
I have always told my children that their choice of friends is one of the most important decisions they will continually have to make. I have witnessed too many people head down the wrong path because they allowed harmful "influences" into their circle. I believe that people often judge us by the company we choose to keep and I would hate to think that others may consider you to have the same values as your friend.

Would you feel comfortable keeping her as your friend if you were married?

I don't mean to be harsh, but if affairs become common in my "world", then I would feel the need to make some changes!
 
I also have a friend who is seeing amarried man. My friend was married during her first affair but that affair ended after 6 months. about a yr later she ended up seeing another married m an that had 4 kids. I told her if she wasnt happy in her marriage that she should end it,that it wasnt fair to her husband. she finally did divorce her husband and continued the relationship with that man. he finally left his wife about a month ago. they plan on living together and eventually get married . I dont support her on doing this but she has been my friend since kindergarten and although I have different standards than her, she still has been a good friend of mine. Having a friend since you where 6yrs old is hard to come by. her and I have always been way different when it comes to men. she has been more of a player and I am more of a commited person. I still love her dearly and she knows that I dont agree with seeing a married man especially one that has kids. I think that is totally wrong,she is messing up a family. I mean I have kids and if some woman came in and turned my family upside down, I would pull every hair in her head out. not just because of me but more because of my innocent babies . that is what bothers me the most. what about the children. they dont understand why daddy or mommy isnt there anymore. people need to think with their heads not thir hormones!
 
I must play a little (friendly!!!) devil's advocate to all who condone dropping the friendship. I'm not trying to start a fight here...just giving a little food for thought. :)

Suppose that any one of you found yourself in a bad situation and had a friend who was considering bailing on you just because they do not agree with what you are doing? How would that make you feel? Don't you think it just MIGHT make you question the friendship?? Don't you think it might upset you that someone who called themselves your friend chose to bail on you when you probably need them the most??

Just a few thoughts!:)

In addition, I just wanted to say that I am no stranger to this type of thing either. My best friend's DH was cheating on her. We didn't know it until after they had decided to divorce anyway but none-the-less, he was doing it. Well, I was friends with both of them and I had no intentions of dropping him for what he had done and my best friend told me straight out that she would never expect me to end the friendship! She knew I was very close with him and did not take it personally that he would still be my friend after all was said and done. :)
 
Interesting discussion. I respect everyone's opinion. I also think there is a difference between condoning a friend's behavior and standing by the friendship. I have made it clear to friends in this situation that I was not willing to discuss affair details (as in, "Oh John and I had a great time on the Cape this weekend!), socialize with them together, or provide any cover-up. That said, I feel that I would not be a very good friend if I jettisoned someone I loved and had a history with because her behavior was not up to the standards I saw as appropriate.

Sparrow

My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
Personally I don't hang out with people who don't share the same values as I do - I don't consider them friends - I may have aquaintences I have to run into now and then, but otherwise I choose very trustworthy, loyal, honest and DRUG FREE friends - I would not want to associate with someone who was willing to date a married man either - that is sick and demented, nor be associated with that person......

I have made mistakes in the past and one might be forgivable, but obviously if she already felt bad - and then went back to him - she is starting a cycle I would not want to be a part of - I would check her off my true friends list and put her on my aquaintence list and if you run into her - then no big deal, but I wouldn't trust her with a true friendship.......

Friends are there through the good and bad, but when she is purposely destroying a marriage - in my book - she needs a therapist, not a friend.....and a real hard look in the mirror..

No sympathy either from me.....
 
No one has really addressed this from the side I saw it from, so here goes. I was married for 10 years with two beautiful children. My husband had affairs and then one day left while I was out of the house at a meeting (we were supposed to be going on a family vacation to the beach two days later). At that point, the object of his misplaced affection was a secretary at the company that we co-owned.

I would just remind you, like some previous posters have, that your "friend" is very possibly helping this man to destroy someone's life. It was a very difficult task to put my life back together and knowing that a woman had chosen to take up with my husband while she knew about my family made it all the more difficult.

My issue with your friend would be that I don't think I could ever be friends with someone who was willing to do that to another person. I wonder about the level of narcissisism that is necessary for this kind of lifestyle. I could not trust someone who cared so much about herself and so little about others. This is not just about her and her married lover. This is about her willingness to help him break his vows, and disrespect his wife and child.

Could I go to that woman's birthday celebration? Not on your life. Ultimately, you have to decide what kind of things you expect from and can tolerate in your friends.

Good luck. I am sure you are having a very hard time with the situation.

Stephanie
 
She's a big girl. If she's "asking" you to "save" her, then I see your dilemma. If you don't agree with what she's doing, drop her as a friend. Simple. True friends stick by each other. If they don't like what's going on they voice their opinions, talk about it, and move on. Together or apart whatever the case may be.


Kali
 
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