For Cathe: Question about age and STS

[tinkerbelle]

A number of us over at VF are wondering if STS needs to be modified for people over 50 or 60 and up - we are finding we need more recovery time or we are still sore when the next workout for the same muscle groups comes up - should we space the workouts farther apart, use lower weights than our 1rm indicates, or just ignore the soreness?

Should we be working to failure on all the exercises, or just some, or none? I am doing each week twice, and am just into the third week of Meso 1 - I even had to go down on some of the weights from Week 2.

Thanks for your answer, and if this topic has already been covered could someone please point me to the thread?

 

[Miss Lee]

Good question tinkerbelle! I'm 53 (54 is nipping at my heels ) and I'd like Cathe's input on this, too . I'm doing the 6 month rotation and I'll be starting my 2nd week of discs 7 - 9. I've had permanent DOMS in my upper, inner back and rear delts ever since I started the program. It's not so sore that I feel like I can't do the exercises, so I've been doing them, I'm just surprised that the soreness persists, especially since this is a one body part per week program.

I am not lifting to failure for every exercise, but I am for some -- mostly shoulders -- but they are my weakest area.

 

[lightening16]

I was having DOMS all week too

Hi

I'm 36 and I was having DOMS all week during Meso 1 into the next week as well. I had to take lots of baths and did the stretch segement alot to try and relieve some of the soreness. Now that I am into Meso 2 I am not finding that I have DOMS as bad for upper body... but the leg segments still get my butt everytime. I have not ever done heavy weight training before and had been doing some of the Jari videos. I was talking to my cousin ( a sports medicine guy) and he said that over 60 and strength training is really important because you can't build muscle endurance then only strength. I am not sure really what that means but anyways. Usually I try and make sure that the weight I am using is close or at failure by the last set at least.

Hope this helps
Heather

 

[Peaceful Rainbow]

Not quite there yet, as I'm only 48, but I don't feel like I'm having any problems with STS. I'm doing the 6 month version and repeating each week and I found that while I got quite sore the first few weeks that tapered off and while I had some soreness in the later weeks it wasn't nearly as noticeable. It also never hit me hard enough that I had to delay my workouts. Warm baths, epsom salts and lots of stretching does wonders. I just started a ritual of always taking a hot bath after my leg workouts and that helped a lot.

 

[ImFiddY]

My opinion is that you should listen to your body, if it does not feel right then modify. If you feel strong then increase the weights. With anything you get what you put into it.

I have to modify the legs and I cannot do the whole routine 100% and the others I just go with the weights that I feel I can lift safely. I'm gonna be fiddy in a couple of months and have had knee surgery last year.

 

[tinkerbelle]

That is an interesting statement that one cannot build endurance after 60. I don't know where that is coming from - maybe you can't become a champion cyclist, runner, whatever starting that late, but surely anyone can improve endurance by building up gradually.

 

[shoegoddess]

I've seen news reports that any age benefits from weight training. I'm 55 and I'm loving STS. Having great results!

 

[cocob1]

This thread caught my attention because I'm kinda' embarrassed over how hard I'm finding doing Cathe's STS workouts and her cardio rotation suggestions. I am so tired and I have upper body DOMS all the time.
I'm on disk 19 right now. Do I cut back the intensity of the cardio? I've already decided to cut back on my 1rep suggestions because I don't have a barbell rack and I'm afraid of getting hurt again.
I hurt myself for the first time EVER doing my 1rep tests last January. I tore the rotator cuff on my right shoulder when I pushed myself and did over two hours of testing so I could finish the darn tests. I worked for over two weeks testing. The darn 1rep tests go on forever. I wish I just kept at the weights I knew I could do and added percentages up as the program progressed.
Someday I'd like to do a retest but I wish Cathe could come out with a DVD or a "Cathe TV" video of how to do 1rep testing in a guided format like a Cathe rotation.
STS has been a confusing time between pushing and going heavier and not getting injured or over training.
I've felt like a Cathe wimp ever since STS started.
Oh well. I guess I"m learning more about my own fitness journey at 55.
Colleen

 

[lightening16]

I've seen news reports that any age benefits from weight training. I'm 55 and I'm loving STS. Having great results!

What my cousin said was that strength training is the most important thing to do for those over 60 but endurance training will not build more endurance.

I'll have to ask him more about where he got his information from and what it means.
Sorry for the confusion
Heather

 

[dorothyrd]

Interesting because as we age, we lose more fast twitch muscles, and older people have more percentage of slow twitch, which is your endurance muscles.

I just finished week 1 of meso 2, and I do the leg work-out twice, doing UP, legs, rest a day, UP, legs, rest two days. On the first and second rest day, and on all weight days, I do cardio at a different time of day. The last rest day is full rest, no exercise. This has worked well for me for a long time, and I am 47. If my sleep is worse than usual, I may skip cardio, but never weights

Meso 1 did not leave me exceedingly sore. Disk 13, did, the legs did not, disk 15 was moderate. I did my second day of legs today and tacked on a 3 mile run, and I feel pretty good.....but I got extra rest because of the weekend.

 

[Runcrazy]

It's interesting how our workouts affect us all differently. I'm another 50 something girl. I'm doing the 6 month program and am in my second week of week 1 of Meso 2. I was the sorest ever from Disc 13 but have had different bouts of DOMS throughout. What's been interesting for me, is I feel like I have increased energy and have really kicked up my cardio! So I'm doing all the recommended cardio plus a couple other sessions here and there. I also think it matters than I'm eating super clean because when I'm not, I do not have this level of energy to give to my workouts, especially the cardio when I'm taxed from lifting! Anyway, my point to all this, is for me it has nothing to do with my age but everything to do with my eating, my sleeping and my consistency.

Jo

 

[caseysmomgo]

I'm 50-something and doing the 6 month rotation, and this week is my second week of week 1 of meso 2. I've had various DOMS throughout STS so far, but also like Jo stated, I have increased energy, have done more cardio than ever (and I never even liked cardio before!) and I feel stronger than ever also!

I don't think it's an age issue, because everyone's fitness levels are different.
I love STS!
Denise

 

[drover]

i am also 54 and very interested in cathe's input here. i am sore, sometimes more than others, mainly i am tired, but i am always tired, even before STS. i did the first workout of meso 3 today, back & bi's, and i actually had to go heavier than my workout card said. hmm, not sure why, maybe i didn't do my 1 rm's correctly.

now, i am a bit concerned about the legs in meso 3 though. i'm gonna try both and sese which works best for me. i don't think i can do all the jumping in the plyos. tuck jumps are pretty much impossible for me. so, we will see what happens. what are you other over 50's planning for legs?
cathy

 

[PhyllisG]

I am not sure about the "legs" in Meso 3 either. I don't have a squat rack and besides am concerned about injury using heavy weights for squats. I also am unsure about the jumps. I figure I will just see when I get there and may have to modify somehow.

 

[loniram]

I would like to hear Cathe's reply to Tinkerbelle also. We're all at different starting points due to our current fitness level, age, amount of time available to devote to workouts each day, goals, genes, etc. I really like STS, but can't guite figure out the best way to make Meso 1 work for me. My trouble is both DOMS recovery and workout length. I'm going to try a two day rest period between STS weight workouts and see how that works.

 

[kathryn]

I think it's wise to listen to your body, and that we DO need more recovery as we get into middle age and beyond. Heck, even Martina Navritalova takes more recovery between her workouts.

 

[drover]

phyllis, did you see the post about using a backpack and putting weights in it. that is what i'm gonna do. that is even better than a weight vest, cuz you can change the increments. then the barbell doesn't have to be so heavy. and i am gonna do the squat rack legs when my husband is home. don't want to be messing w/that heavy a weight when no one is here. i can't wait to try them. i'm doing my first squat rack legs tomorrow. i'll let ya'll know how i do.
cathy

 

[babindy]

I'm 52. I've been doing heavy weights for years. I get DOMS with Cathe but I've always gotten DOMS depending on the exercise. It's always worse with new exercises or a weight increase. I expect it. Actually at times I welcome it I rarely have soreness (from DOMS ) that lasts over 2-3 days. I'm just about finished (Back and Biceps to go) with Meso 2. Looking forward to the rest week!

That said, I agree you have to listen to your body. I modify ALL THE TIME. I can't do much impact so that goes. I can't do those blankety-blank deep lunges. My back is always waiting to 'snap' so I don't do heavy deadlifts (the stability ball is a good alternative for me) and I'm very, very careful on my form. Especially when moving the weights around

I'm also trying to lose weight. That's always a challenge when lifting. You need to fuel the muscles and still burn the fat. That can be extra hard after 40 and post menopause. But weights are my exercise of choice so I keep at it. I do cardio because I have to, NOT because I actually enjoy it. Cathe keeps my boredom factor to a minimum and challenges the heck out of me. Although I did vote for the lower impact alternatives be included on the STS cardio

 

[cocob1]

"I'm also trying to lose weight. That's always a challenge when lifting."
Is this true? I'm not losing anything doing STS. In fact I'm hungrier than usual and staying the same weight because I'm sure I'm giving myself bigger portions even though I eat pretty clean. I didn't lose even giving up my nightly glass of wine for a month. Does this happen with heavy weights?
Are there any good books on fitness for over 50 that don't dumb things down? I get insulted by the "sit in a chair and swing your arms" fitness videos for over 50 and yet things are changing for me and I feel like I'm in new territory fitness wise.
With STS I'm really tired the next day after lifting heavy and I drag myself through my cardio. If I don't do any cardio and just STS I'm fine. I'm never going to lose the 5 lbs I gained this winter and 10 lbs total I want to lose for good health.
Sorry to be so long with my posts but my STS journey has been very challanging and I get jealous reading about those of you who are having more energy and dropping tons of weight. Ok, I'm off the pity pot now.

 

[babindy]

"I'm also trying to lose weight. That's always a challenge when lifting."
Is this true? I'm not losing anything doing STS. In fact I'm hungrier than usual and staying the same weight because I'm sure I'm giving myself bigger portions even though I eat pretty clean. ...
Sorry to be so long with my posts but my STS journey has been very challanging and I get jealous reading about those of you who are having more energy and dropping tons of weight. Ok, I'm off the pity pot now.

For me it's ALWAYS a challenge to lose weight. Mostly I know what would happen if I didn't work out. As far as losing weight and lifting weights I think it's the nature of your goal. I'm no expert but I think if you're trying to BUILD muscle mass you have to feed the muscle. If you're trying to LOSE weight you need a caloric deficit. There are TONS of discussions with experts out there. With lot of viewpoints. I subscribed to BFFM (Tom Venuto) for quite awhile.

Personally I've been overweight (to morbidly obese) a lot of my life. I've lost and gained probably a ton over the years. I still need to lose a lot. Menopause and an injury didn't help. My goal is to build as much muscle mass, lose as much fat as possible and control my eating disorders.

My current program:
Exercise: Cathe STS weights 3x/wk, cardio 3x/wk, rest 1 day.
Food: Raw vegan as much as possible. Cooked vegan otherwise. I've found that raw vegan really helps control my eating. I do almost no grains. Primarily it's veggies, some fruit and nuts. Protein is primarily from whole foods with hemp thrown in. My major cheat - cooked sweet potatoes on lifting days. Unplanned cheats - no comments. :-( But it's much better than it ever was and it's still vegan.

Result:
"Objectively": I don't use the scale so I can't tell you with that. My clothes fit looser and items I couldn't fit into a few months ago now fit. My mom (visiting recently) says she noticed a big change around my middle.
Subjectively: I feel "tighter" and have noticed muscle development since STS (And I'm used to lifting heavy). After the initial transition period I'm amazed by my energy levels. I just feel healthier. Just wish the weight was coming off faster...

I'm sure others have better advice than me. I've found lots of helpful posts around here.