Dog lipoma question (long)

[Afreet]

Hi all: this question is about my two mini schnauzers, who are both 9 years old.

They are littermates (sisters) and both have developed lipomas (or at least, we think they're all lipomas) in the last two years. All the bumps are small, and the ones the vet tested (he didn't remove them and biopsy them, he just took a few cells with a needle and looked at them under a microscope) appear benign.

The first vet I consulted told me that I should definitely have them removed. He also recommended that I do a professional tooth cleaning for both dogs. Unfortunately, they both also have mild heart murmurs (although they're essentially very healthy, happy, & well-exercised), so they'd need to be taken to the cardiologist first. So: cardiologist, tooth cleaning, lipoma removal. Altogether the estimate came to about $1700. PER DOG. (insert the vet's "cha-ching" noises and my screams of doom here).

So, I took them to another vet. I didn't tell him about the previous vet visit at first, just had him provide a routine physical exam and recommendations. He thought their teeth looked "really good" (I do brush them regularly, and they look very white with minimal tartar) and said that while they do both, indeed, have heart murmurs, and should possibly be taken to the cardiologist at some point in the future, there was no reason to do so right away.

He also said that lipomas were very common in the breed, and that he recommended the needle test for them, but that if they were benign and I kept an eye on them, there was no need to have them removed.

I love my dogs profoundly, and I would cheerfully spend whatever money is necessary for their health and happiness (although I might have to sell a kidney or something). Right now, lipomas, heart murmurs and all, they still act like 2-year olds. They are right on target, weight-wise, and are just as feisty as ever. My point is, they seem happy and healthy as they are, and I'm inclined to "wait and see".

So, my question is: does anyone know or have a dog who had lipomas, and what did you do? What was the outcome? I know there are lots of dog-lovers on this forum so feel free to chime in.

Thanks!

Lisa

 

[meowracer]

One of my husband's dogs has them, one of which is quite large (they are big dogs though - not sure if that makes a difference in how they form but the size isn't as freakish on him as it would be on yours...this one is bigger than an egg.) The vet was not the least bit concerned and I've known this man for years so I trust him. Too many vets go overboard, IMO. Why put them through all of that? It is just too risky. As long as they stay healthy and happy, I say let them be. Since they have both developed these, and they are littermates, and it is common to the breed, and you have had the biopsied, I would not worry. (Or at least try not to!) You do much more for their teeth than most and putting them under, especially at that age, is not worth it either I would not thing, especially since you do brush the teeth and the one vet thought they looked fine. As for the heart, there are some natural substances you can give them to support heart health. I would think that, as suggested by Vet #2, a visit to a cardiologist is in order at some point in the future. For now, I would follow your heart and let them continue to enjoy life, which they seem to be doing quite nicely, thank you very much, Vet #1!!

 

[ivorygorgon]

I completely agree with the above poster. I have a lot of experience with lipomas in dogs; ones I have had removed, and also ones I have chosen to leave. Basically they are not harmful. It is mostly a cosmetic thing, really. My Springer, Jeremiah, is 13 and has several of these, including one quite large one on his abdomen. I have chosen to leave them. The vet even said he "wouldn't touch" the one on his abdomen. Essentially it comes down to a quality of life issue. If it isn't harmful, it doesn't hurt or bother them, then what does it hurt to leave them? Surgery is so stressful for them, it just seems senseless to make them undergo the procedure when there really isn't a health issue.

 

[skimi]

i agree. i had a dobie that had a large one on his rib cage near her front leg. the vet tested and it was benign. he said it didn't need to be removed unless it interfered with mario's ability to run. even if you had the current ones removed, couldn't more appear? it could be a never ending battle....it sounds like your dogs are happy and healthy so i say let them be.

 

[icumom]

Our beloved Golden Retriever had a grapefruit size lump on his throat that was disfiguring. He was 8...our vet, young, a cowgirl, loves surgery, said to go for it....8am the thing was impinging on his carotid artery and for 80 minutes she dissected the massive lipoma (think big thing of chicken fat) out.....and Danny was home by 3pm...he's almost 10 now, still beautiful and has his boootiful face! AND she charged us 380.......that's an honest Vet...in NYState the vet would've charged Mom 1800....

 

[tsagona]

I had a very sweet shih tzu, Chewy, who had bumps and lumps on him. The number increased as he got older. He was 15 when he died and he died of lymphoma. The little bumps and lumps you feel and can tell they are like little fatty knots and they don't seem to cause them any pain or grief. However, the lymphoma he developed was quite different. It was about the size of a large marble and felt very different than the usual bumps and lumps. He was no longer acting himself and he had rapid weight loss. Chewy went through a round of chemo which was very hard on him and us and if I had to redo that I would not opt for the chemo. He did live another 8 months or so but they weren't quality months but he did have some really good days. But the bad days were bad. If your dogs are still fiesty and normal in their day to day routine then I would leave well enough alone. Having all that work done, especially if you have conflicting recommendations from the vets, I would do nothing at this point. You'll know when it's time to make a different decision or do something different. Little dogs live a long time. Enjoy those babys.

 

[Afreet]

Thanks everyone for your replies! These little girls really are my best friends. It's astonishing how complicated it can be to figure out how to be THEIR best friend, sometimes. It's not all walkies and super-premium dog chow anymore.

The lipomas they have are all pretty small (the largest is about the circumference of a quarter), and none of them are obstructing movement or bodily functions. They are basically healthy and happy, and hopefully they'll get to remain so for years to come!

Anyway, thanks again!

Lisa

 

[buckeyegirl]

Lisa,

As long as your veterinarian performed fine needle aspirates and confirmed they are in fact lipomas, then they are ok to watch. I usually do a FNA, measure and moniter yearly with the understanding that if they change considerable in size or character, then we should re-evaluate them. The only time I recommend surgical removal is if they are in a bad spot and especially large - like in the ventral neck area as one poster described, or are affecting their mobility (I have seen some the size of grapefruits in their armpits and in groin area that warrant surgery...)

Having had schnauzers and seeing their mouths a lot, I will tell you that dental disease is pretty rampant in the breed - any small breed,for that matter, but schnauzers, poodles, and dachshunds are over represented breeds that are predisposed to periodontal disease. In light of their murmurs, as much as you'd think that general anesthesia is too risky, it's the dogs with murmurs that especially need good dental health/care. Don't let the tartar build up too much or it can compromise their underlying heart disease. We do dentals on old dogs with murmurs - we just take extra precautions preanesthetic-wise -- pre-op rads, ECG, and bloodwork.

And, lastly, not all vets are in it for the mighty buck. We do have to make a living, you know. I went to school for 8 years and work my tail off for my clients and patients. That being said, I do realize the cost differential between vets can be mind boggling - not all vets are as kind as others. I'm just kind of sensitive to blanket statements being thrown around here at times that in some way we are hardened professionals just in it for the money. It stings to us veterinary professionals that are compassionate, caring, and love our jobs.

Heidi

 

[Afreet]

Heidi;

Thanks very much for your reply! I hope I didn't appear to be dissing the veterinary profession. The doggies and I owe far too much to too many vets to ever do that. I've had some really wonderful vets and a few that didn't work out so well, but I respect them all and would definitely be totally distraught without the people who have the compassion and intelligence to pursue the profession. I have often thought of how thankless the veterinary profession seems, how long the hours are and how difficult it must be to deal not only with the health of the multi-species patients, but also the intense emotions their human companions share with them.

I think I'm in a difficult situation because I have moved several times in the last few years, and haven't had the opportunity to establish a relationship with a veterinarian who can get to know the dogs (and me).

Now I am trying to do that, but at the same time the dogs have a host of new problems and are entering a new stage of life. Plus, everything is much more expensive in the DC area than it was back in Texas, so I get a little frustrated! But you're right, neither vet offered unreasonable advice. So far the lipomas are all coming back as "just lipomas" (the second dog has her appointment tomorrow), so waiting and seeing is still OK. I know that tooth-brushing is no substitution for professional dental treatment, but they actually do have unusually good teeth. They are also super-intelligent, of the sweetest disposition, and might actually be the cutest, best, most fabulous dogs in the entire country, if not the world. Just sayin'.

 

[buckeyegirl]

Thanks for your reply- I didn't mean to get a bit defensive about my profession, and you did hit the nail on the head about it being thankless in a lot of ways. BUT, I have a wonderful clientele established after being in practice 15 years that I wouldn't trade for anything. I feel a deep connection and friendship with a lot of my clients and their pets (some of which now are on their 2nd or third pet since I've known them...) There are the rotten apples out there, yes, but I feel very grateful for my clients and patients and what I do on a daily basis.

Yikes...DC area is a much more expensive area - in every aspect, I bet! I used to live in the DC area and visited for a week last summer. Sure made me appreciate my midwest way (and cost!) of life here in the sticks in OH And,I know what you mean about schnauzers. I just lost my 15 year old gal about 5 months ago, and am really missing her. They are great little dogs (and the non-shedding sure adds to their package, lol!) I'm just now trying to find another dog for my lonely Border Terrier who is really wanting a playmate.

That's great that their teeth are in such good condition - I think you are fine in just monitering the teeth and lipomas. Are you right in DC or in the suburbs? That is a saturated area with vets - I used to work for vets in the Wheaton and Gaithersburg area...but probably wouldn't recommend either unfortunately. I have lots of classmates in that area, though. I find word of mouth is the best way to find a good vet vs. the looks of the place/location, etc.

Heidi

 

[Afreet]

I just lost my 15 year old gal about 5 months ago, and am really missing her. They are great little dogs (and the non-shedding sure adds to their package, lol!) I'm just now trying to find another dog for my lonely Border Terrier who is really wanting a playmate.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. That must really have been/still be hard! Hope your little Border finds a good playmate soon, though. I have a not-so-secret love affair with Border Terriers. I used to pet-sit for one and he was soooo sneaky and energetic and intelligent, and he had a great sense of humor (my girls, on the other hand, take themselves VERY. VERY. Seriously).

I actually live in Annapolis, MD. My office is in DC and I work all over the area: Maryland, DC, Virginia. Most of the people I know around here (Annapolis) have a FANTASTIC veterinarian - who only does cats! Dang!

Whenever I have to buy anything out here, I miss the midwest a little bit. But I'm getting used to it. The second vet I visited seemed to be pretty good. My dog liked him, and he really took a lot of time asking questions and answering all of mine.

Lisa

 

[buckeyegirl]

Hey, I have a technician friend that just moved to Annapolis - she's missing Ohio badly and is having a hard time with how expensive things are in that area. She works at a vet clinic in the area - which vet clinic are you going to? We love the Chesapeake Bay area - I lived in Gaithersburg for years and my grandmother lives on the eastern shore of VA. I love that area and Chincoteague especially - ahhh...the beach...

And, yes, I love my Border boy. He's silly, but I love the terrier tenacity and silliness.

Heidi

 

[Afreet]

I go to Bay Country Veterinary Hospital, which is technically in Crownsville but is really only a few minutes from Annapolis.

I LOVE the Eastern Shore. I've been working on a project out there for YEARS, and I've gotten very attached. Some people freak out about the Bay Bridge but I kinda like it. I like the bridge/tunnel down in VA, too, although the first time I took it and the bridge disappears midway across, I was, um, confused ("confused", i.e. my brain was screaming "Where the h$#& did the bridge go??").

Lisa