Do Squats and Deadlifts Make One Blocky? Bret Contreras Weighs In...

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Bret Contreras said:
Hi Cathe and Cathletes! This is my first post on the forum so kudos for promoting strength training for women. We're on the same team I promise. I was notified about this thread by Google alerts so I decided to join the forum and chime in.

@TurquoiseEyes - did you read the article you linked? The entire article is about how squats and deadlifts WILL NOT make people blockier. It's even the title of the article??? There's another article I wrote on the topic that's very similar here:
https://www.t-nation.com/training/is-your-ab-workout-making-you-look-fat (T-Nation changes the article titles and edits our articles, so please know that this was not my choice of wording).

So I DON'T think that squats/deads will make women appear blocky, but I DO think that ab/oblique training in some circumstances can.

In the article I linked above, you'll notice a picture of a woman by the name of Andrea Galea toward the bottom of the article - she emailed me to inform me that she'd gained 4 inches around her waist via high frequency, heavy abdominal/oblique training. She was under the impression that this training would reduce the size of her midsection, but instead it increased it. She was frustrated and disappointed. I have heard similar stories from several women over the years. I may write another blogpost about this as I don't feel that T-Nation did that portion justice.

As a personal trainer, I tailor each of my client's training toward their goals and their physiology/biomechanics. Every once in a while, I have to omit certain exercises when a woman complains to me about a certain muscle becoming too big for their liking. If I had my clients do weighted ab work four times per week for an entire year with an emphasis on setting PRs/progressive overload, my guess is that half of the ladies would love the way they looked and the other half would feel that their abdominals/obliques were becoming too muscular for their liking. For this reason, I'm not highly concerned with progressive abdominal/oblique training for female physique clients. For female strength clients or athletes, then I'd prioritize core strength to a greater degree, but I mostly train physique clients. Basically, it always depends on the client.

I believe that women focused mostly on strength and not physique should not bash women who are focused mostly on physique and not strength, and vice versa. Male powerlifters and bodybuilders have been going after each other for decades but they seem to be more comfortable around each other in the past several years.

My sincere apologies to anyone I've offended over the years in my writing; sometimes I don't come across well online.
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Yes, Bret, I knew your opinion is that squats and deadlifts do not make women blocky. I am very familiar with your writing. My question or thoughts were/are directed at Cathletes, but my point was that I agreed with you. I don't see where I ever initimated you were of the opinion these two exercises made women blocky. If anything, I posted this originally to bring attention to the (what I believe to be well-informed) opinion of a trainer and research buff like yourself to readers of the Cathe forum.

I don't believe I've ever engaged in any bashing of fitness competitors or anyone purely focused on physique. There are certainly far more benefits to exercise than figure improvements, but to each their own.

I do disagree with objectification, any commentary that makes women feel bad about themselves based on some purely physical attribute, or anything that encourages what is an unhealthy (and unhappy) obsession with changing one's body to the point of insanity. For that, I cannot apologize. I hope my reasons are self-evident based on my own previous Cathe forum posts. I don't believe you've ever intentionally done any of those things I just mentioned. I applaud your scientific bend, your obvious dedication to improving training, and commitment to passing on information with real meat to it- not just opinion or fluff pieces. I have disagreed with your approach at times. I've made no bones about that.

My hope is that women (humans, period) realize their value as a person is not in their looks. I see no problem with believing in that as much as I believe in a commitment to fitness. I think a dedication to working out should make a person feel better about themselves over the long run- I firmly believe you would agree with that. Sometimes a message can be misconstrued. Not everyone has the self-esteem or confidence to work out and do so out of self-love, but will work out due to self-hatred. I sincerely hope that you can appreciate why I think that way.

Regardless, I respect your work and research, and have personally benefited from the knowledge you've passed on.
 
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TurquoiseEyes said:
Yes, Bret, I knew your opinion is that squats and deadlifts do not make women blocky. I am very familiar with your writing. My question or thoughts were/are directed at Cathletes, but my point was that I agreed with you. I don't see where I ever initimated you were of the opinion these two exercises made women blocky. If anything, I posted this originally to bring attention to the (what I believe to be well-informed) opinion of a trainer and research buff like yourself to readers of the Cathe forum.
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My apologies @TurquoiseEyes, I interpreted what you wrote totally wrongly. Thanks and I'm glad that this has been a pleasant experience here on the Cathe forum. Other forums aren't always very nice and understanding. :)
 
Bret Contreras said:
My apologies @TurquoiseEyes, I interpreted what you wrote totally wrongly. Thanks and I'm glad that this has been a pleasant experience here on the Cathe forum. Other forums aren't always very nice and understanding. :)
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@Bret Contreras Glad you have had a pleasant experience interacting with us. Feel free to revisit:):)

I may post another question. Can not help myself! I get bored when I do not learn:)

Thanks again and kind Regards,
 
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TurquoiseEyes said:
My hope is that women (humans, period) realize their value as a person is not in their looks. I see no problem with believing in that as much as I believe in a commitment to fitness. I think a dedication to working out should make a person feel better about themselves over the long run- I firmly believe you would agree with that. Sometimes a message can be misconstrued.
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@TurquoiseEyes

Wow Liz, what a message.:) 2 sentences highlighted above are so true. Working out did and still does make me feel better.;)
I agree. Messages can indeed be miscontrued/Mis-interpreted;)

Yep, Neither do i see any problem believing in looks values as much as much as commitment to fitness.
In fact I would (IMO) add as much as in intellectual abilities, competence ...

To all: Working out does make a WOMEN feel better about themselves therefore improve mental health! which BTW
is one of fitness component:):) Feeling good about ourself can be mis-interpreted as a quest for opposite
sex attention/attraction:eek:. This is another misconception amoung people! In my personal experience I have come across this misconception more from
my own gender than from Men. Wrong!!

There is nothing as wrong as working out for a MAN (IMO)!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I do not believe in "solely" pursuing an aesthetic goal! When done properly, there are health benefit.
There are also gains in terms of being able to perform new tasks.

Oh Well sorry for going off topic.
I could not keep my thoughts for myself as usual;)

Take care;)
 
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I love this thread! And I have never heard of Bret so now I have to look him up!
Bret have you worked with middle aged women? Oh gosh I hate saying that! Middle aged! When did I get here!? Lol
I just wonder if your training method is different based on age and if you have seen women around 45 start doing body building or what I would like to do is not really body build but look like one before I get to old. Just wondered if u have and what success did they have? Is it still possible or is it a dream that is out of reach?
I know u can't say anything about me personally but in general have you trained any one like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
nckfitheart2009 said:
This "looking blocky" phobia goes IMO hand in hand with the "looking bulky" myth.
Mind you both words just differ by one vowell from the spelling point of vue!:D:D
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While we are in this "looking blocky/bulky" subject, here is another video.
A bit off topic so feel free to skip the first 5:50. I suggest you view the full vid just to clearly get
the point. The message comes from a woman claiming to be a former skinny fat.:)
Lol while this clip is a little bit off topic, I have just found out Elliott is a myth buster.
He's hilarious and I like him Lol.

 
Beth-B-Fit said:
From what I've read, squats and deadlifts do not make you blockier. Too much oblique ab work and weighted ab work can add inches to you waist.

Beth
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Yes Beth, It can as Bret confirmed.

High frequency/ doing it more often can cause it.
I suppose it is all about balance. Too much of it is not good.:)
 
What a knowledgeable and informative thread.

Thank you, Bret Contreras, for becoming a member on the Cathe forum and chiming in, to our conversations in a respectful and professional manner. Kudos to you! Justinef couldn't have said it more eloquently:

Justinef said:
Bret, welcome, and thank you for replying. It takes a brave man to face us lot!!!! I appreciate you saying that you don't come over so well online. It can come across as objectifying women. I hope you don't mean to do that.....
We're a mixed bunch here, and we generally respect others' goals - whether they be fitness or aesthetic ones. I'd say we're mostly focused on being as healthy as possible, though.
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nckfitheart2009 said:
I have read this thread with a lot of interest:):):) I have heard of this complain in social media.
Turquoise eyes I 100% agree with your sentence above.

This "looking blocky" phobia goes IMO hand in hand with the "looking bulky" myth.
Mind you both words just differ by one vowell from the spelling point of vue!:D:D

Bret does not ab train his bikini competitor for reason. They need to keep the midsection
less muscular compared to figures or physiques! competitions requirements being different,
training protocol need to be designed accordingly.

As to me personally, I am happy to embrace any challenge abs, weighted russian twist
leg raise, reverse crunches etc.... My body tend to hold onto the feminine curves/hourglass therefore this phobia does
rarely cross my mind! Especially knowing I have tiny endomorphism.

As to squat and deadlift, they offer one of the most enjoyable way to work my core.
I like the way they work stabilizers. Front squat bring a feeling i would describe as if my core were
wrapped in a corset:p:p. As I am travelling up and down it feels as someone was pulling those laces!
Those squat and deadlift have definely left a mark on my midsection.This motivates me.
I am not giving this up for sure!

:)
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Figure and fitness competition is interesting to review historicaly. As a longtime serious fitness buff and magazine reader, I remember reading about the methodology and competition wins of Rachel McLish, Cory Everson, Monica Brant, Mary Rust as they occurred...the women who were winning competitively back in the 80's and 90's. One thing is for sure- competing has been through MANY different phases of evolution when it comes to body type for women. I truly hope it will continue to evolve, and not in an unhealthy way. Personally, I think it would be very cool if a competitor won who came out and said, "I don't care if weighted ab work or squats or whatever makes me blocky in some opinions out there. I am training to have the most balanced, fit, strong body I can get. I'n not going to follow drastic contest prep dieting, I'm training to be healthy and at maximum fitness for a lifetime. I don't care whether people think my waist isn't small enough, my chest isn't big enough, my butt isn't high enough, or my tan isn't dark enough. I'm here to represent the true face of my OWN peak fitness level. This level is challenging to reach and is admittedly still a full-time effort, and I acknowledge my body is my business enterprise. However, I won't follow a trend just to follow it. If I have a small waist, great. If not, that's okay, too. I'm at peak fitness, and I'm proud of that fact."

All right, back off the soapbox I go. ;)
 
I remember all these women. Especially the first two. Rachel McLish (McDish) would be a perfect bikini competitor now. Cory Everson was a guest poser at one of my competitions. She had great muscle, was tall, very nice legs. I'm not that familiar with Monica Brant and Mary Rust. It's interesting to see how things have changed and what the judges are looking for. I think all these bikini competitions came into vogue, because it was a time that some competing women, were plunging a two inch needle into their butt every morning. We had one female guest poser, at a competition that was beyond scarey. Women were wanting to be bigger and bigger. I'm glad things have changed.
 
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While we are on the subject of competitions, I can recall Cathe posting her picture while competing.
I was not surprised, I already sensed she entered such competition. She inspires me beyond I could possibly describe!
She does do, walk and talk the talk:):):)
 
Karen, I read the top of your post above.

I do not know what you are talking about!
I will not answer to any toxic post/ATTACK. Without intending to be Rude, I have better things to do.

I bet three or four of users will click on like. And we all know who they are!!!
As I mentioned before you can not fool anyone. Enough of cyber bullying!
 
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I don't care what you read. The whole forum can read it. Yea, I know, you haven't done anything, and your just reading this so exasperated, and amazed. You always put such a kind face on, how could anyone think this of you? I don't know, lets ask Maddiesmum, Cupcake, 112toGuru, Justinef, MominVT, and myself, how kind and understanding you are. You are an extremely nasty person, and I'm done with you. Do not contact me again. Ever.
 
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desertambrosia said:
I don't care what you read. The whole forum can read it. Yea, I know, you haven't done anything, and your just reading this so exasperated, and amazed. You always put such a kind face on, how could anyone think this of you? I don't know, lets ask Maddiesmum, Cupcake, 112toGuru, Justinef, and MominVT,how kind and understanding you are. You are an extremely nasty person, and I'm done with you. Do not contact me again. Ever.
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I am not a nasty person. I will always stand up to defend myself against any attack/cyberbullying.
Please feel free to report to admin and let them do the job to see how "nasty" you are claiming I have been.
I do not need any approval from you on my opinion. And I will not tolerate any bullying in any shape or form!!!
 
nckfitheart2009 said:
I am not a nasty person. I will always stand up to defend myself against any attack/cyberbullying.
Please feel free to report to admin and let them do the job to see how "nasty" you are claiming I have been.
I do not need any approval from you on my opinion. And I will not tolerate any bullying in any shape or form!!!
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I'm way ahead of you. I have already reported you. Have a nice day.
 
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