Did I lose my Cardio Fitness?

Gobias

Cathlete
Hi All,

Background: I started exercising about 20+ years ago. I did all 60-min steady state cardio because that was the "thing" back then. I incorporated weights a few years later, but they were 5 lbs and looking back were not challenging in any way. I did the same 4-ish video tapes for about 15 years. I never knew to change things up or challenge myself. Even though I did the same cardio workouts over and over, I must have been in pretty good cardio shape because I could hike, walk, go up stairs, etc. without breathing heavy. I also take the stairs whenever possible (at work, in public, on vacation) and never take elevators/escalators if I can help it. I could talk no problem while hiking or stair climbing.

About 5 years ago I found Cathe. I started out with just her cardio (again, I thought cardio was the "thing" to do) and mainly did Imax 3, Step Blast, Body Max 2 Cardio over and over (again the 60-min steady state cardio thing). I was still in great cardio shape when I did my extracurricular activities.

A few years ago I started doing Cathe weights and loved it. I still did my cardio, but incorporated weights in about 4 times per week. I broadened my video collection to include ALL Cathe videos and changed it up daily. Still in great cardio shape - I could do X-77 without issues, Imax3 while talking, The 30-minute HiiT videos seemed like a warm-up, therefore I would do two of them. All cardio I did was at least 60 minutes long.

Then fairly recently I focused mainly on weights and incorporated cardio into my rotations. And the cardio I did incorporate was mainly HiiT at around 20-30 minutes. I did a couple rotations based on heavy weights - the rotations only had 1 day of cardio included. I didn't feel it was enough, therefore I would add 1 or 2 more cardios in the week. However, all cardio was short (30-ish minutes) and HiiT-ish, not steady state.

I have noticed that my cardio fitness is just lacking now. I went hiking a couple weeks ago and was easily able to hike, but I was breathing heavy - I have never done that and usually talk during the entire hike without issue. At work, I am used to running up and down the stairs all day long, while carrying equipment and talking on the phone, without any huffing. After I noticed this, I decided to incorporate more cardio back into my rotations. I had a hard time! I started with RwH Plyo (I know it is a harder one, but I wanted to start with a shorter video) and I had to modify the majority of the workout. I then decided to do Imax3 (a workout I loved but never had an issue with), and I had a very hard time. I did PRS (such a fun workout that I could carry on a conversation throughout - I know, not ideal, but my household seems to think that my workout time is their talk time), and again, while I could finish it, I felt the heavy breathing.

What I have really noticed is that my recovery time is taking longer and longer. If I was a bit out of breath before, I could easily and quickly recover in the timeframe Cathe gives between moves. Now, I either have to pause the video or go into the next move spent.

Now I am wondering what to do. With the heavy weight training + (minimum) HiiT cardio, I got great body results - very cut, visible muscles. With mainly cardio workouts with some weights mixed in (what I was doing prior), I don't gain weight, but I notice I am just....skinny. Almost like skinny-fat.

I do have severe (yet controlled) asthma - which is why I got into cardio in the first place. Having great cardio stamina really helps me control and recover from my asthma. I was thinking of doing half-and-half (3 days cardio and 3 days weights), however, that is what gave me the skinny-fat results.

I know I am obviously 20+ years older than when I first started, but this loss in cardio fitness seemed very rapid and tied to the fact I was only doing 1-3 HiiT-ish cardio sessions per week. I feel I really need 60 min steady state cardio several times per week despite all the studies showing otherwise.

Has anyone had this happen to them or any advice? Thanks!
 
I feel the same way. I used to always do Cathe's longer step workouts like Intensity, Power Step, IMAX (any of them) and rarely had to hit pause. It seems like when I started doing more HiiT and shorter intense workouts, I lost all of that. I did Intensity a few days ago and could not believe I had to hit pause 2 times during the step portion, same with To The Max. I feel I still got a great workout, but where did all my endurance go???
 
Long steady state cardio does improve your endurance. But, as Gobias stated, it doesn't build muscle. If you like doing three days a week of cardio, make two of them Hiit, and one long steady state. Three days of heavy lifting. Maybe switch up the weeks. One week of two Hiit, and one day of steady state. The next week, two days of steady state, and one of Hiit. Variety, is the spice of life, right?
Now days my cardio consists of kettlebell swings. Two days a week max.That's just me. Never was a cardio fan, love heavy weights. Only did cardio, because years ago, that's what we were told to do.
Years ago I was an "aerobics instructor" cardio was the least favorite part of the class. Like I stated before, that's just me.
 
I am the OP - thank you all for your input, please keep it coming. Justine - yes...the word "endurance" is probably what I was looking for. I seem to be able to do short intense workouts still without issue (except that one try at RwH Plyo - that was a bear for me). Still, my recovery time seems to be a lot longer now.

Funny that article link was referenced - I had read that a week or so ago when I was thinking about my decline in cardio fitness. I certainly think that is part of the issue, but I don't think that is entirely what is going on with me. I did just hit my 40's, but this decline was so rapid and sudden. I traced it back to when I stopped steady state cardio and only did HiiT while also decreasing the amount of total cardio.

Luckily, I have learned to love variety and made a rotation where I did not repeat a workout in the entire 3 months (thank you, Cathe for the oodles of options!). However, I notice for me to achieve muscle definition where I can actually see/feel it, I needed to do almost entirely heavy lifting (at the expense of cardio endurance). If I want my old cardio endurance back, I need to cut back on the heavy lifting and increase cardio (at the expense of my beautiful muscles). There just doesn't seem to be a middle ground for me that I can find.

I am naturally gangly skinny and even though I knew I had muscle, I just couldn't see it. I was really really sick of people telling me to eat a burger, calling me Olive Oil, telling me to eat more candy and tell me I didn't need to exercise (all unsolicited advice, mind you) - so when I actually got some muscle definition, it was nice. (albeit small definition!)
 
Hmmm, seems everyone's capacity and conditioning needs for aerobic vs. anaerobic fitness is different huh?
I know I definitely need steady state (although usually moderate) cardio at least twice a week to keep my energy up & circulation going. I am also naturally willowy and gangly looking (have a hard time gaining any mass in my shoulders etc) & have received strange/rude/ignorant comments in the past regarding this Gobias. Maybe us gangly girls have more energy in our limbs to try and release? lol. I know - that isn't scientific at all!! :)

I'm wondering with your asthma, have you spoken to your Dr. or pulmonologist regarding this issue? Have you noticed if it's more effort during a certain time of day or something? I have two parents with COPD & chronic asthma and my grandma with pulmonary fibrosis and not to alarm you at all, but I think you ought to at least have these things looked into. Just to be on a safe side and get a bit more insight.
 
Luckily, I have learned to love variety and made a rotation where I did not repeat a workout in the entire 3 months (thank you, Cathe for the oodles of options!). However, I notice for me to achieve muscle definition where I can actually see/feel it, I needed to do almost entirely heavy lifting (at the expense of cardio endurance). If I want my old cardio endurance back, I need to cut back on the heavy lifting and increase cardio (at the expense of my beautiful muscles). There just doesn't seem to be a middle ground for me that I can find.

I am naturally gangly skinny and even though I knew I had muscle, I just couldn't see it. I was really really sick of people telling me to eat a burger, calling me Olive Oil, telling me to eat more candy and tell me I didn't need to exercise (all unsolicited advice, mind you) - so when I actually got some muscle definition, it was nice. (albeit small definition!)

I understand exactly! I have the same body type. I have FINALLY figured out what works for me. I used to run miles and miles. I still did Cathe and strength training, but could never figure out why I didn't have nice muscles. I decided to quit running so much, and started doing boot camp classes that include both cardio and weights, and increased my strength training. I now have nicely defined arms, shoulders and back. All that running was just burning off the muscle. The boot camp classes are really the best of both worlds. Of course I have to heavy up in the classes when possible, and my separate strength training has to be pretty serious.

I run about 10 miles a week, and that's down from about 30 miles per week in my prime running days. I have found that I am not any slower, nor is it any tougher to run when I do. Again, that intense cardio in my boot camp classes is keeping my cardio fitness right up there like it's always been. I'm turning 60 this year, by the way. :)
 
Thanks for all the comments above...interesting thread. I too am over 55 and, yes, my cardio endurance was better in the past when I was training for a half marathon. But, although my endurance isn't as high as it was previously, it is still at a level that provides me with ENOUGH energy to complete all my leisure activities in a fun and rewarding way. I am guessing yours is pretty good too! Us Cathlete's tend to have high expectations for ourselves - maybe you are still in great shape, just not what YOU are used to. After all, one does not need to do X77 without a pause to be in great physical condition! And one doesn't have to spend hours and hours on cardio each week in order to be in excellent physical condition.

I had a fitness assessment by a certified personal trainer (recently and also five years previous) and found that the 2-3 Hiit and/or metabolic workouts and the 1-2 steady state workouts I am now doing each week are doing the trick - my overall cardio- vascular fitness levels actually improved over the 5 years and are above average for my age. Perhaps a fitness assessment would make you feel better about your achievements. I believe the trade off you have made is a super sensible one - you have sacrificed some endurance, but as long as it is has not decreased dangerously low (and a medical assessment will let you know this), in return you have gained lean muscle mass, overall cardio-vascular fitness and strength - all very, very important in overall health. I use my percentage body fat, my measurements, my VO2 max, measurements of joint flexibility (especially low back) and sit-up and push-up strength test results as my guides to whether or not my program is working for me.
 
I'm wondering with your asthma, have you spoken to your Dr. or pulmonologist regarding this issue? Have you noticed if it's more effort during a certain time of day or something? I have two parents with COPD & chronic asthma and my grandma with pulmonary fibrosis and not to alarm you at all, but I think you ought to at least have these things looked into. Just to be on a safe side and get a bit more insight.

Elsie - thanks for the concern. My asthma is well-monitored and well-controlled. It is just *very* severe when I get an attack (and the recovery takes months). I know what my triggers are and try to stay away from them. Exercise has never caused an asthma attack in me, nor has time of day or weather conditions. (In the past weather was a trigger). The reason I brought the asthma up is that I am hyper-aware of any breathing or lung function at all times. I started doing cardio 20+ years ago to give me better lung function (despite being told otherwise from the medical community!) and it made a night and day difference fairly quickly, therefore I just kept on doing that long steady state cardio.

As Jane mentioned, I am probably still in better cardiovascular shape than the "average" person, but I was taken aback at the fact I struggled to talk during the hike (This has never been the case, in fact I am a chatterbox during hikes) and running up and down the stairs at work is causing me to take deep breaths. It really bothered me the other day because some days I work from home, but must keep my phone nearby for certain calls. I was exercising and when it rang, I usually take about 1-2 rings to calm my breath and then answer. Last week I had to take 5 rings before I answered and I was still out of breath. I am sure the other person on the line was wondering why I was breathing heavy.

Again, I am hyper-aware of all things lung/breathing related. I think I am going to tweak my next rotation to incorporate more SS cardio with MWT/CT and add about 2 days of heavy lifting. I now realize this will get rid of my gorgeous definition, but I want to see if my higher lung function will come back. Then the following rotation I will just split heavy weights and SS cardio. (I really started loving the short workouts of HiiT so somehow need to fit that in - there just aren't enough days in the week!)

You know, Cathe has great muscle definition and great cardiovascular endurance - she *talks* during the entire cardio video without seeming to huff. Wonder how she manages to get the best of both worlds.
 
Hi All,

Background: I started exercising about 20+ years ago. I did all 60-min steady state cardio because that was the "thing" back then. I incorporated weights a few years later, but they were 5 lbs and looking back were not challenging in any way. I did the same 4-ish video tapes for about 15 years. I never knew to change things up or challenge myself. Even though I did the same cardio workouts over and over, I must have been in pretty good cardio shape because I could hike, walk, go up stairs, etc. without breathing heavy. I also take the stairs whenever possible (at work, in public, on vacation) and never take elevators/escalators if I can help it. I could talk no problem while hiking or stair climbing.

About 5 years ago I found Cathe. I started out with just her cardio (again, I thought cardio was the "thing" to do) and mainly did Imax 3, Step Blast, Body Max 2 Cardio over and over (again the 60-min steady state cardio thing). I was still in great cardio shape when I did my extracurricular activities.

A few years ago I started doing Cathe weights and loved it. I still did my cardio, but incorporated weights in about 4 times per week. I broadened my video collection to include ALL Cathe videos and changed it up daily. Still in great cardio shape - I could do X-77 without issues, Imax3 while talking, The 30-minute HiiT videos seemed like a warm-up, therefore I would do two of them. All cardio I did was at least 60 minutes long.

Then fairly recently I focused mainly on weights and incorporated cardio into my rotations. And the cardio I did incorporate was mainly HiiT at around 20-30 minutes. I did a couple rotations based on heavy weights - the rotations only had 1 day of cardio included. I didn't feel it was enough, therefore I would add 1 or 2 more cardios in the week. However, all cardio was short (30-ish minutes) and HiiT-ish, not steady state.

I have noticed that my cardio fitness is just lacking now. I went hiking a couple weeks ago and was easily able to hike, but I was breathing heavy - I have never done that and usually talk during the entire hike without issue. At work, I am used to running up and down the stairs all day long, while carrying equipment and talking on the phone, without any huffing. After I noticed this, I decided to incorporate more cardio back into my rotations. I had a hard time! I started with RwH Plyo (I know it is a harder one, but I wanted to start with a shorter video) and I had to modify the majority of the workout. I then decided to do Imax3 (a workout I loved but never had an issue with), and I had a very hard time. I did PRS (such a fun workout that I could carry on a conversation throughout - I know, not ideal, but my household seems to think that my workout time is their talk time), and again, while I could finish it, I felt the heavy breathing.

What I have really noticed is that my recovery time is taking longer and longer. If I was a bit out of breath before, I could easily and quickly recover in the timeframe Cathe gives between moves. Now, I either have to pause the video or go into the next move spent.

Now I am wondering what to do. With the heavy weight training + (minimum) HiiT cardio, I got great body results - very cut, visible muscles. With mainly cardio workouts with some weights mixed in (what I was doing prior), I don't gain weight, but I notice I am just....skinny. Almost like skinny-fat.

I do have severe (yet controlled) asthma - which is why I got into cardio in the first place. Having great cardio stamina really helps me control and recover from my asthma. I was thinking of doing half-and-half (3 days cardio and 3 days weights), however, that is what gave me the skinny-fat results.

I know I am obviously 20+ years older than when I first started, but this loss in cardio fitness seemed very rapid and tied to the fact I was only doing 1-3 HiiT-ish cardio sessions per week. I feel I really need 60 min steady state cardio several times per week despite all the studies showing otherwise.

Has anyone had this happen to them or any advice? Thanks!

Very astute assessment! This really rings a bell for me as I have noticed a decline in my endurance since focusing my cardio on HIIT, and eliminated the steady state I used to do so much of. I have difficulty tackling many of the mountain hiking excursions I used to be able to do in record time, not that long ago, so age is not the only thing going on here.
I took the suggestions in this thread to devote a day or two to steady state cardio yesterday and pulled out "Cardio Fusion". I used to think it so easy it was boring, but whoa, it kicked my butt, and not by doing butt kicks. Interesting. I will certainly add a day or two to my schedule to include steady state from now on.
Thanks for posting this. Eye-opening.
 
I noticed this too...your opening post perfectly captures my fitness history as well. Although I never have run an actual marathon, when I was younger, I went on a 22-mile run with friends who were and I was completely fine. Then in my late 40s, injuries began piling up and my fitness suffered as I ran shorter, slower, and less frequently.

When I found Cathe, I was 15 pounds overweight and out of shape. Even Basic Step had me puffing! I stuck with it though, and added weight training too. Now I am much stronger and love workouts like To The Max and Cardio Leg Blast.

My injuries are gone and I have been running once or twice a week, but 3.5 miles is plenty to wind me. This year, I am determined to run a 10k in May. I am sure I won't break 55 minutes (46:06 is my PR), but I just want to finish.

I told my husband that despite all the hype about HIIT, I believe there is still a place for steady state cardio in a fitness program.
 
I can hike all day, and do hiit, but it's the medium intensity stuff I'm currently struggling with. I think it would help my lifting if I improved at 60 minute steady state (heart rate sub 160 stuff). Thanks to this thread I'm going to be adding in some of Cathe's older workouts once a week.
 
I really appreciate all of the ideas and input, it is always good to know when you're not alone! I also really liked the link to Cathe's article on aerobic capacity going down with age. I am in the over 60 age group, and when I started trying to use heart rate to measure my exercise intensity, I found that I could not get my HR up to the levels of the younger people in the class. Made me mad, since I felt like I was working harder!
One idea I would like to add to this thread, especially for the older people is that it is essential to have cardiopulmonary assessments annually if you are having any problems with fatigue, any unusual exercise response you weren't expecting. Most people have some heart and blood pressure abnormalities in their 40's thru 60's and beyond of course, which may be kind of blown off as a part of aging. But i f you check these out early, they have so much better chance of correction! Just saying that if you notice activity tolerance is really declining, it is good to checked out by your doc. There may be some underlying medical factors in your endurance problems. They can you narrow these down and find solutions!
 
Great points made. :) Cathe has stated that Hiit should only be done 2-3 days per week so the suggestions above work in well with this.
http://cathe.com/is-it-okay-to-do-hiit-training-every-day
http://cathe.com/which-is-better-for-weight-loss-hiit-tabata-or-steady-state-cardio
I like to do low impact hiit as one of my 2 or 3 hiit workouts to prevent injury.

And yes, I agree completely that 45-60 minute steady state cardio at 65-75% max heart rate is ideal to do on other cardio days. I like to mix in cross-country skiing, biking, swimming, running, brisk walking or hiking and some Cathe dvds for my steady state workouts. My question is, which Cathe dvds are steady state? There seems to be a fine line between hiit and steady state cardio with a lot of her workouts. I have been using her kickboxing workouts, spin bike and some step workouts for some of my steady state days since they do not have rests between specific drills as do her hiit dvds, but they can seem pretty intense with bursts requiring higher energy. :p Perhaps new steady state workouts would be a good idea for future Cathe dvds?
 
Great points made. :) Cathe has stated that Hiit should only be done 2-3 days per week so the suggestions above work in well with this.
http://cathe.com/is-it-okay-to-do-hiit-training-every-day
http://cathe.com/which-is-better-for-weight-loss-hiit-tabata-or-steady-state-cardio
I like to do low impact hiit as one of my 2 or 3 hiit workouts to prevent injury.

And yes, I agree completely that 45-60 minute steady state cardio at 65-75% max heart rate is ideal to do on other cardio days. I like to mix in cross-country skiing, biking, swimming, running, brisk walking or hiking and some Cathe dvds for my steady state workouts. My question is, which Cathe dvds are steady state? There seems to be a fine line between hiit and steady state cardio with a lot of her workouts. I have been using her kickboxing workouts, spin bike and some step workouts for some of my steady state days since they do not have rests between specific drills as do her hiit dvds, but they can seem pretty intense with bursts requiring higher energy. :p Perhaps new steady state workouts would be a good idea for future Cathe dvds?


Apart from the Imaxes, all Cathe's step workouts are steady state. Also, most of her kickbox is too. Try also Circuit Max. There's plenty opf steady state in Cathe's fitness library. Not so much since Xtrain, but plenty before that.

Clare
 
I've really noticed the decline in endurance doing the shorter Hiit workouts also. I used to do CAthe's old step workouts which are all 60 minute steady state except for the "max" ones. It really seemed to work best for fat loss and endurance for life in general. But now I am lazy and enjoy those 30-40 minute workouts so much more. I guess its just "how in shape do you really want to be?" kind of thing. I'd rather be less in shape and have more time! I also think weight training is more critical for aging than doing long, steady state cardio. Also power workouts (like plyo) are also better for aging because they keep those fast twitch fibers alert to prevent falls. So I can't run up 10 flights of stairs anymore, who cares?
 

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