An important article with great reminders about hamstring training and hyper-flexibility

[TurquoiseEyes]

I really enjoyed reading this article. It came out about a month ago. One thing I notice about so many modern workouts is the lack of concentrated hamstring work (standing or floor), far too many hamstring stretches, and not enough quadriceps stretching. This article delves into the nitty-gritty of a side effect coming from a lack of proper hamstring development: knee pain. I have experienced this personally, and feel the warning against developing hyper-flexibility in hamstrings is right on target.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/145984-hamstrings-knee-pain/

 

[MomInVT]

Thanks for sharing this, Lizzie.
I've actually had a question recently about hamstring hyper-flexibility. (I think my hamstrings are over-flexible from years of dance and yoga, not from overdoing specific hamstring stretches before/after my workouts.)
When I read about deadlift technique, everyone seems to say, 'bend your knees when your hamstrings catch' and... my hamstrings don't catch. So... when to bend my knees? I haven't seen anyone address this issue specifically...
Also, Dave Dellanave talks about biofeedback testing using your hamstrings (and when they first 'catch') to determine which movement variation to use... but I can always easily get my palms flat on the floor any time of day.
I think my concerns above are tangential to the article, but still... wondering if you or anyone else has insight.
Roz

 

[catwoman7631]

I've been doing a lot of barre workouts lately, and I am finally starting to see my hamstrings develop. Deadlifts just don't do it for me. Like MomInVT, when I do deadlifts, I never feel my hamstrings 'catch', no matter how heavy a weight I use.

 

[desertambrosia]

I've been doing a lot of barre workouts lately, and I am finally starting to see my hamstrings develop. Deadlifts just don't do it for me. Like MomInVT, when I do deadlifts, I never feel my hamstrings 'catch', no matter how heavy a weight I use.

I agree, I feel it in my butt, but really have to concentrate and contract to feel it in my hamstrings. Sometimes, It's just not there. Really doesn't matter how heavy it is. Ball rollouts, and barre, is what I use to feel my hamstrings working. I love doing deadlifts, they fry my butt. Hamstrings, sometimes.

 

[firemedic]

I have to stand on the high step w/3 risers, like in Gym Style legs. I find that is a much better deadlift for me and I don't have to go so heavy that I strain my back or use bad form.

 

[TurquoiseEyes]

Thanks for sharing this, Lizzie.
I've actually had a question recently about hamstring hyper-flexibility. (I think my hamstrings are over-flexible from years of dance and yoga, not from overdoing specific hamstring stretches before/after my workouts.)
When I read about deadlift technique, everyone seems to say, 'bend your knees when your hamstrings catch' and... my hamstrings don't catch. So... when to bend my knees? I haven't seen anyone address this issue specifically...
Also, Dave Dellanave talks about biofeedback testing using your hamstrings (and when they first 'catch') to determine which movement variation to use... but I can always easily get my palms flat on the floor any time of day.
I think my concerns above are tangential to the article, but still... wondering if you or anyone else has insight.
Roz

I really don't know what to tell you about your form question regarding the traditional (knees-bending) deadlift. Since I train alone and only feel the stiff-legged or Romanian deadlifts, that's the only kind I have mastered. I think heavily-weighted traditional deadlifts can be really difficult to do correctly without a spotter to watch your form.

Form is still everything with the stiff-legged kind, and I don't feel it's the only hamstring exercise we need. But it's much easier to master good form and just feels better on my knees, IMHO. I also have overly flexible hamstrings from years of dance and a natural ability to hyperextend in the knee. I focus heavily on bridgework with legs closer together and tablework with a wide range of angles to help work my hams. Curls are good if one has access to a machine. I definitely feel the stiff-legged variety of deadlifts in my hamstrings, though- yowsah! I feel the bent-knee kind just keep the focus too much on my quads, too. However, that could just be my own physiology there.

 

[Justinef]

Deadlifts FRY my hamstrings, even though I consider myself reasonably flexible. Same with hip thrusts. It's very heavy kettlebell swings to activate my glutes...

Roz, are you very flexible everywhere? You could use a different bio-feedback flexibility test (T-spine mobility is lousy for me, so I have been using that). How's your balance - you could test that way?

 

[FitSaxe]

Deadlifts FRY my hamstrings, even though I consider myself reasonably flexible. Same with hip thrusts. It's very heavy kettlebell swings to activate my glutes...

Roz, are you very flexible everywhere? You could use a different bio-feedback flexibility test (T-spine mobility is lousy for me, so I have been using that). How's your balance - you could test that way?

Same here for me...i feel my hamstring, glutes within second. Deadlift feels as a fry and stretching at the same time. I prefer the wide
stance cause I feel more. Deadlift on high step is even better. What put my mind at ease is the fact that i do
not feel any pain whatsoever in my lower back.

Ball rollout is a total Evil frying process
In all honesty I have learned to love it to the point to start playing with variations.

My concern is my inner thigh flexibility---

Glutes strength certainly contribute to both hamstrings and knee wellbeing IMO.

All the best everyone

 

[TurquoiseEyes]

Same here for me...i feel my hamstring, glutes within second. Deadlift feels as a fry and stretching at the same time. I prefer the wide
stance cause I feel more. Deadlift on high step is even better. What put my mind at easy is the fact that i do
not any pain whatsoever in my lower back.

Ball rollout is a total Evil frying process
In all honesty I have learned to love it to the point to start playing with variations.

My concern is my inner thigh flexibility---

Glutes strength certainly contribute to both hamstrings and knee wellbeing IMO.

All the best everyone

I also prefer a slightly wider stance, but then my hips are wider. Whatever works and feels good. My weaknesses are a bit different. My adductors & lower back are too flexible (combination of dance + genes), while my abductors and quads are just the opposite. I do a lot of inner leg lifts and a fair amount of spinal erector exercises to balance my body out. It's hard to avoid using quads more than hams in training or daily life...

I wish instructors stretched with a bit more emphasis on anterior deltoids, the serratus (sp?), feet, ankles, hip flexors, quads, and outer thighs/glutes. I find many final stretches are overly focused on the wrong areas, like the rear delts or hamstrings. However, I am always willing to switch out exercises or stretches to support my own goals and needs.

And those stability ball hamstring exercises like the ball rollout- YOU AREN'T KIDDING! "Fried" is right...I really ought to do those more often again. I should get back to my hip thrusts, too. Not because I a) want buns of steel more than life itself, b) want to impress Bret Contreras (cuz the dude is brilliant but obsessed!), or c) get a new man due to my awesome gluteus maximus. Nope. I just love the strength it gives me.

I believe glute and ham training does help keep our knees, hips, and lower back strong. That's the reason I train. To each their own, but I simply cannot focus my training on sheer aesthetics. No judgment on anyone, I would simply find it demoralizing to focus more on my looks than on how I feel.

 

[FitSaxe]

And those stability ball hamstring exercises like the ball rollout- YOU AREN'T KIDDING! "Fried" is right...I really ought to do those more often again. I should get back to my hip thrusts, too. Not because I a) want buns of steel more than life itself, b) want to impress Bret Contreras (cuz the dude is brilliant but obsessed!), or c) get a new man due to my awesome gluteus maximus. Nope. I just love the strength it gives me.

I want a glute of steel...I am not going to lie. Not because i want to impress anyone.
I want to impress myself and look back and see how I have improved not just in the way it look.
I know one of the way of gaining a more developped gluteus minimus is to squat below parallel. It is a challenge
I see myself embracing.Like you strong glutes is powerful and that is what gives strength

ps: Did I mentioned I want a more developed glute too ha ha ha

 

[tslop49]

Jealous of "hammie flexibility". I can't get to my ankles if my knees don't bend!!! .... A LOT!!

 

[FitSaxe]

While we are on this topic of flexibility and deadlift, here is an technical instruction from
Elliott. He's known for swearing but his instruction are spot on. There are some blah blah but it is
worth to be patient cause the message is helpful IMO.This is one of the best I have come accross
containing techniques. There is another really good but in French therefore I can not post.

What I personally find help is coordinating the hinging motion and knee bending.

HTH

 

[TurquoiseEyes]

Jealous of "hammie flexibility". I can't get to my ankles if my knees don't bend!!! .... A LOT!!

I'll be glad to share my hammie flexibility with you! I can't kneel worth a darn because my quads are so absurdly tight. I can't do Hero posture to save my soul, even with props. If anyone can do something like this, I'll trade you flexible hams in a heartbeat!

Nope, this is about as far as my knees allow. Pathetic.

It's not an aging thing, although I believe all those darn splits and straddle stretches I did as a teen along with a knee injury at age 28 did not help. However, I was never great at Hero pose, even as a young teenager. My mom, grandmother, aunts, great-grandmothers on both sides were ALL the same way- couldn't kneel well, if at all. On the other hand, I could always do splits, straddles, backbends, and touch my toes. Oddly, I can do this just fine.

I've given up trying to find the origins of my body's weird developmental quirks of flexibility, I just keep plugging away at the basics of cardio/weights/core work/stretching, focusing on what I can do well. Okay, most of the time. A year ago I couldn't lay on my knees at all, so maybe next year by this time, I'll be closer to managing Hero pose. However, I'm proud of my body regardless of that.