10-7 = 3 Right? Not according to "New Math"

I hate that my daughter has trouble with math. I see her getting so frustrated and the tears start falling. Then there's the whole "I'm so stupid", which is definitely not true. It's hard for me to teach her myself because it's so easy and natural to me, I don't really know how to break it down. And then I just get frustrated because I can't believe she doesn't get it and I think she's faking. This is why I don't homeschool.

I just try to help her by getting her to understand that it wasn't always easy for me. I struggled with math all the way up until about 11th grade, then it sort of clicked. Though, I never made it past Calc 2 in college. Psych major... why bother?
 
Hi Gloria!

Thahk you for your insights. I will definitely ask the teacher for a reference book and you are right on with the teachers at my son's school. They were not happy with this new way of teaching either. I will talk the priincipal and suggest to her that she organize something similar to your "no tears" approach! What a great idea!

Pam
 
Hi Midgetdogg,

I totally agree with you about the correct answer being marked wrong because it wasn't a ballpark # and incorrect?!?! This is just soon insanely wrong.

I also cannot agree more with ALL of you who mention that they are NOT learing the original "old fashioned" basics to give them a solid foundation to then advance to learn more sophisticated concepts.

I would bet (a ball park number of course!) that other countries that are far superior in math are not learning bizare money wasting concepts. They probably learn the way many if not most of us learned as did generations before us. Let's get basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, etc. under their belts so they have a fighting chance!

Pam
 
My DD is in 3rd grade and is in the middle of what you're talking about. I guess it makes sense to me, though. At our school, they're getting a healthy dose of 'math facts' in addition to the 'new math' concepts, but I can see where they're going with the newer concepts.

Maybe I'm just the odd one out, though. As I was learning math, I always thought it was common sense type stuff - math is very cut and dried, it always makes sense, and it's always true to its own rules. I never understood why you would have to memorize 'math facts', because if you just do the math in your head, you have the answer. Does that make sense?

When we drill math facts by pure memorization, we're not teaching 'math', we're teaching memorization - the 'what', not the 'why'. It always seemed odd to me, because if you teach the 'why', the 'what' makes so much more sense... Math is about patterns and logic rules, and I can see where the new math education is trying to teach that. Learning to estimate is part of it - it gives a ballpark judgement to logically determine if the precise answer can be right, and is one step on the way to building better logical thinking.

JMHO, though. I've actually learned a little from DD's book - it's interesting to see how they approach topics, and I love that there are tons of word problems. To me, that's the real test - translating concepts into numbers and functions can really show if they understand what they're doing vs. just memorizing answers.

ETA: spelling correction
 
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GraceNote said:
My DD is in 3rd grade and is in the middle of what you're talking about. I guess it makes sense to me, though. At our school, they're getting a healthy dose of 'math facts' in addition to the 'new math' concepts, but I can see where they're going with the newer concepts.

Maybe I'm just the odd one out, though. As I was learning math, I always thought it was common sense type stuff - math is very cut and dried, it always makes sense, and it's always true to it's own rules. I never understood why you would have to memorize 'math facts', because if you just do the math in your head, you have the answer. Does that make sense?

When we drill math facts by pure memorization, we're not teaching 'math', we're teaching memorization - the 'what', not the 'why'. It always seemed odd to me, because if you teach the 'why', the 'what' makes so much more sense... Math is about patterns and logic rules, and I can see where the new math education is trying to teach that. Learning to estimate is part of it - it gives a ballpark judgement to logically determine if the precise answer can be right, and is one step on the way to building better logical thinking.

JMHO, though. I've actually learned a little from DD's book - it's interesting to see how they approach topics, and I love that there are tons of word problems. To me, that's the real test - translating concepts into numbers and functions can really show if they understand what they're doing vs. just memorizing answers.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this post! You are so right!

I posted about how we do spelling based on patterns. The kids are given 20 or so words that have the pattern and they are only tested on ten. On Friday I pick the ten words. They have no clue what the words will be. It is based on whether you learned the pattern or not.

As far as marking answers wrong because it was supposed to be an estimate....follow the directions. It is that simple. If the teacher doesn't teach them HOW to make an estimate, that is a whole different story.
 
I may be a little late on the conversation, but this hit home. Before I moved on academically, I taught school - math and science. Around the same time, my son was having a hard time with math. I am by no means a math genius, but it has always come easy to me. The same could be said of my DS, until then. I found by talking with and working around other teachers that many just don't want to think more than they have to when it comes to the way children think and learn differently. DS got in trouble because he got the answer, but the teacher could not "see" how he got it and said he was cheating. Nope, took him down to that teacher and told her to give him another problem and let him "show" her how he did it. He got he correct answer and the teacher learned a new way of doing that math problem...easier for the kids it turned out. Teaching is hard especially when the district is telling the school a curriculum needs to be this way or that and they are trying to fix something that is not broken.

My college prof's children both became teachers and found out through them that some teachers just do not know how to teach productively to children. He started going to the schools on the teachers work days and teaching science and math teachers how to better get the points across to the students. He by the way was fantastic; he had people from other campus' and waiting lists. He was not easy, but he made the info learnable. It is not always the teachers fault; many schools/districts teach to do better on the school ratings tests and if a teacher does not meet the "standards" of teaching towards the test, they are disciplined.

I did not leave teaching because I disliked it; I loved working with the kids. I left because the district' s super imbezzled money and literally left the district destitute. The teachers/coaches in on the imbezzlement did not get charged...I got disgusted. The football team got new equipment, but I couldn't get A computer in my lab.

I will step off my soapbox now, thanks for listening. Go talk to the teacher like already advised - good advise. That is always step number one. One thing I did learn from DS, if I "dumbed down" and had him teach me, he usually found his way. Added benefit, I learned something new too every now and then.
 
then in high school...

I'm late to the conversation too, but I have some observations...My kids are in college, when they were in high school they participated on the "scholars bowl" team. They both took up to Algerbra III (tri and geometry) and during bowl competitions some of the math questions blew me away, they used terms I'd never heard before, but the kids would be working away for the right answer and would do great, then one day one of the math questions was something like "how many ounces in 7 gallons?" (something like that) and I swear, both teams sat there with the most confused looks on their faces for a few seconds, then the figured it out. I thought finally one I could get and they don't have no clue.
And when I helped the kids in the concession stand, they could not make change. I tried to explain how if the cost was 2.25 and they were handed a 10, just count up from 2.25 to 10. They could not get it! These kids were smart and scored very high in math test. My son told me that year, "mom, we can't do basic math anymore!" I'm glad for advanced math as is does teach critical thinking, but basic math is important in everyday life.

Susan
 
Hi Susan!

See, that's my concern as well is the basic math issue. What about times-tables and carrying the 1?? Ack!! :eek: I'm going to have to meet with his teacher AGAIN about the "logic" behind the way they are teaching math these days.

Thanks for sharing!! And from the teacher's points of view - those are very valuable.

Pam
 
GraceNote said:
When we drill math facts by pure memorization, we're not teaching 'math', we're teaching memorization - the 'what', not the 'why'. It always seemed odd to me, because if you teach the 'why', the 'what' makes so much more sense... Math is about patterns and logic rules, and I can see where the new math education is trying to teach that. Learning to estimate is part of it - it gives a ballpark judgement to logically determine if the precise answer can be right, and is one step on the way to building better logical thinking.
Click to expand...


I agree with what you are saying here about patterns and logic but I think the memorization helps some people "see" those patterns. I couldn't do the math in my head until I could visualize the numbers and patterns and how they relate to each other. You shouldn't need to stop and think about what 3 x 4 is. That should be a reflex answer - 12. My son still (8th grader) needs to stop to do the addition in his head to get the answer. This slows him down when trying to learn advanced concepts. Although not really because now they allow and encourage the use of calculators. I think they had to allow calculators because so many kids can't do the basic facts quickly enough...like the PP said about being able to make change. If they have mastered the basic facts then they can do those types activities without a calculator.
 
You're right to be concerned...

"See, that's my concern as well is the basic math issue. What about times-tables and carrying the 1?? Ack!! I'm going to have to meet with his teacher AGAIN about the "logic" behind the way they are teaching math these days. Thanks for sharing!! And from the teacher's points of view - those are very valuable.
Pam"



There is no reason kids can't "memorize" math facts and learn advanced math at the same time. I do math in my head everyday! I don't think a business would go very far if they "estimated" your change.

(BTW, I was just a parent helping out, not a teacher.)

It comes down to common sense!!
 
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