You burn the fat first......right?

C

cjbate

Cathlete
I am trying to lose more fat...i.e., reduce my bodyfat percentage. My weight is actually ok...I am a slender person, don't weigh much, infact, I lost my last 20 lb of babyweight through WW, and I am actually now at the bottom of what they consider my weight range. They don't take into consideration frame size (I am a very small frame). However I still have fat over my muscles and a sort of a "bike tire" around my waist. Anyway, so I am thinking about apply WW techniques (clean eating) to lose another 5 lbs or so of fat....but I don't want to lose my hard earned muscle. So, as I am losing weight, I will be losing the fat first....right? I won't lose muscle as long as I eat enough protein? Is this a silly question? THANKS GUYS

Jen
 
Reduced calorie intakes do lower metabolism. Depending on your calorie intake your body can use muscle mass to function. Not a nice thought. Can i ask you what you eat daily? How much protein do you take in? What is your exercise routine like? 1g or protein per pound of lean mass is a good idea me thinks. For me, whenever i increase protein (regardless of my calorie intake) my muscle mass improves. Have you tried metabolic typing? Is pretty good. I can recommend a really good book for you its called Eat, Move and be Healthy. You can order it from http://www.chekinstitute.com It covers everything. I really hope this helps.

W x
 
Calorie staggering

I have tricked my body into losing fat and keeping muscle with calorie staggering. It is psychologically and physically easier to do. I've been at it for months and may just do it indefinitely. Here is the website I got it from:

http://www.allyourstrength.com/nutrition_1202_cs.html


My calorie counts for a week are 1200, 1500, 1800, 1200, 1500, 1000, 2200.
 
RE: Calorie staggering

I also have been doing this... mine is as follows (bare in mind that i can lose weight on 2500 calories a day)

2000, 1800, 2000, 1500, 2200, 1700, 4000 repeat. W x
 
RE: Calorie staggering

I am so happy with this method I am recommending it to anyone who will listen. I do some personal training, and told a 350 lb woman about it and she has lost 65 lbs. Of course, it's those last 5-10 lbs that are tough, and that's what I've been dealing with on my own body. I have lost 10 lbs and have maybe 5 to go. It is slow and steady, and the muscles are growing at the same time. I haven't changed my exercise routine at all, just the food. I also avoid simple carbs, even healthy ones like whole wheat bread, a lot more than I used to. I eat a mostly vegan diet too, but I do eat eggs from the farmer's market several times a week.
 
RE: Calorie staggering

This method does rock! I heard about it years ago from Charles Poliquin about how to avoid rebound weight. It does work. I don't follow a vegan diet, mine is high in fat, meat and vegetables and fruit. I eat very little grain. This is the first time that i can eat something and go without eating for hours without being hungry. Eating this way is so good for me. I feel much better. :)
 
Thanks guys. WOW that CS thing sounds interesting!!!! Crazy...but makes sense too? I trust you that it works...4000 calories? holy moly.

My workout rotation currently is 4 days of weight training, no aerobics right now (I have 3 kids under the age of 5 and have to cut corners somewhere...plus I am an ectomorph and I (obviously) really want to gain some muscle and I am experimenting with rotations). I am doing MIS, then the PS series. Getting ready to switch to MIS/SH.

I am also playing with my diet...WW would be 25 pts per day, a rough guess of calories on that would be 1250 MAX per day. Of course things like vegetables are 0 points, Fruits are 1 point, etc. Foods that are high in grams of fat you have to add points to, foods high in fiber you get to subtract points from. So might be more calories than 1250? not sure. I did find that when I relaxed on tracking stuff after my WW time period was through (I decided I was done losing the weight) I did NOT gain the weight back, so hopefully the metabolism is intact. But my bodyfat as near as I can tell is 28 percent so NOT GOOD NOT GOOD NOT GOOD

Recently started a low glycemic index way of eating to control some skin problems, keeping blood sugar level helps acne...it HAS DONE MIRACLES in me. I have cut out sugar, and most ( but not always) simple carbs. Has you eating protein at every meal, adding nuts, flaxseed, and staying away from the "white" foods (rice etc) with the exception of dairy. I have been doing this since Sunday with nothing short of miraculous skin results. Of course lots of fresh vegetables, fiber, slow cook oatmeal. Lotsa water. Green tea.

ANYWAY yesterday was this:
Bfast: Slow cook oatmeal, strawberries, flaxseed, lowfat sugarfree yogurt.
Snack: pumpkin seeds, some cashews
Lunch: cold boiled shrimp with some cocktail sauce, carrots, a bit of hummus, a few almonds
Snack: Grapes
Dinner: Small serving pasta with marinara and turkey sausage,Salad with lettuce, tomatoes, cukes, with lowfat dressing.
After dinner: herbal tea

Protein wise it came to about 68 g protein. Day before I had salmon so it was closer to 90 g.

WW points wise I THINK it would have been 25. I haven't figured it up. I have been using www.fitday.com because it is free and WW's points calculator is NOT (free) but if I sat down I could probably figure it up on my own. Fitday calories says 1220, fat was 53 g, fiber 21 g, protein 68 g

Kinda high percentage wise on the fat...the nuts I guess. They're good for your skin.

I weigh 125, using an online calculation for bodyfat measurement I am assuming I am 28 percent bodyfat (although I have measured as high as 32 percent for some calculators). Lean body mass therefore is....90. So should be shooting for 90 g perday protein sounds like.

Any further thoughts? Sorry so long. I am going to read more about the metabolism thing and the CS idea....that sounds intriguing! I trust you guys... I can't believe it really works but it must...did you find you had to sign up for the guy's service or could you do it on your own? I am assuming on your own...

THNKS
Jen
 
I did it on my own. Remember in the calorie counts that icklemoley is a man!

I am 5' 8" and weigh 132. My goal is 125.


Remember that for most people, the more carbs you eat, the more you crave and often the more you end up eating. Wayne is eating pretty low carb, as do I. This just makes it easier on your hungry low calorie days. And makes it easier to get in all the other nutrients your body needs. I don't worry about fat grams at all, but I only eat healthy fats, so it's not a problem for me.
 
Hm...OK! Got it!! Can you tell me how you determined your total (maintenance or otherwise) calories? The site says to use your weight times 15, which gives me 1875 maintenance calories per day. Fitday I think somewhere assumes 2477 assuming that my lifestyle is "light activity...housework" (accurate I suppose). Doesn't include my weight training. So, that is quite a difference from 1875.

If I use CS's method for weight loss...8.5 times my weight, it gives me 1062.5, times 7 days in the week, that is only 7437.5 for the entire week. Difficult to get any kind of a wide variation for the lite days and heavy days...without being starving to death on anyone's terms on the lite days!! Under 1000? That sounds like metabolism freak out time? :-0 Y/N? Based on your weight you would be similar to this, Mogambo, right...but I add your CS dailies up and they are 10,400. You are fairly active as I recall...how did you determine?

perhaps 1875 daily maintenance calories is for someone my weight who is on bedrest?!!! :)

Last thing, Mogambo...what do you eat to get your protein, since yo don't eat meat... I am looking for more ideas to get protein and also up my fiber. THANKS for your time!!!
Jen
 
I am embarassed to say that I don't remember how I got my numbers. I think I used his formula and found them too low, so I lowered his "highest day" and raised the more starvey days and the average is 1485, which is comfortable and I lose a pound or less a week, some weeks I seem to break even, but I'm smaller in size which is what counts. Even if this turns out to be maintenance, at my age and size, I like it because I get to eat comfortably 4 days of the week, and 2 of those days treats are possible. Only 3 days are challenging. Today is one of them x(

I don't worry about metabolism freak-out because that is the whole "trick" to the calorie staggering, you can go low because the next day you go up and the next day you're on a maintenance day and your metabolism never really resets, and your muscles never really get glycogen-starved.

For protein I eat some free-range eggs, beans of all types, soy milk, soy yogurts and kefirs, bee pollen, soy flour in baked goods, rice protein or soy protein mixed with liquids, tofu, tempeh, peanut and almond butter, nuts of all types, flax seed, sunflower seeds. The occasional dairy yogurt. And very occasionally I eat meat in restaurants or in people's homes when they invite me. (It won't kill me, it won't affect the success of factory farming or doom the environment. 95% vegan is 95% as good as Veganism as Religion and 95% is good enough for me.) I eat meat maybe once or twice a month. And when I do, of course it isn't fried or slathered in cheese. I don't eat cheese at all, vegan or otherwise, but I don't like it. There are lots of yummy things like steaming tempeh and making "chicken salad" out of it, I love the fake deli slices. I don't eat wheat gluten but a lot of people like it. I like Quorn naked cutlets and I love Gardenburger Riblets in a sandwich or on a sweet potato. Lightlife makes some great "meatballs" for sandwiches or pasta sauce. Of course some of these choices are not appropriate for very low calorie days. I fill up on vegetables on those.

Otherwise I eat a huge quantity of vegetables, salads, thick soups with beans. I rarely eat bread, grains, potatoes or pasta. On my high calorie days I LOOOOOVE to have some French bread and butter, or a Boca burger with everything on it, or some sushi with avocado.

Fiber is never a problem on a mostly plant-based diet, but another tip is to eat psyllium seeds in water on low calorie days to fill up.

I'm sure Wayne and I will be happy to answer any other questions you may have. Good luck!
 
Question for Mogambo re: Staggering

K....I'm so stupid...but I tried to do the math for myself and I could not get out of bed on my low days. I am 5'5'' and 140. I would like to be 130. I planned out my days based on the calculations from the link you posted....it would be 840(yikes!), 1050, 1750, 840, 1050, 700, and 2450. Is this right? I must be doing something wrong. Please help...this sounds very interesting and doable(if I don't have to go as low as 840 on my low days!)....thanks!
Angela:7
 
What a fascinating idea! I get the staggering concept, but I am wondering if you should schedule your workouts a certain way to correspond. More calories on a weight training day...less? On a cardio day?

Thanks!!!!!

Gina
 
I actually have less calories on harder days so that the calorie burn is much higher. I seem to do alright, but then again but calorie intake isn't that low either. W x
 
Hi Wayne,
I weigh 140 so my maintenece would be 2100 right? I did 15 x/ my weight. Thanks!
Angela
 
You could try this, it will leave you about 1900 down per week. But with exercise, life, weight training and running around here and everywhere, it should work pretty well.

1800, 1400, 2200, 1200, 2000, 1500, 2700. You get one over feed day, plus one normal day, and then another normal ish day (2000) and the others will help with the fat loss. Hope this helps and is "ok"?

W x
 
Yes, I just tweak the numbers so I end up with a 1/2 pound or so loss a week. I don't worry about matching easy and hard workouts to calorie days, that's too much work and it truly doesn't seem to matter. I have enough energy even on lowest calorie day to run a hilly 5 mile loop if that's what's on the schedule. In fact, it helps me get through the day because it kills my appetite for a good long while and kills time and I feel very very virtuous. The hardest thing is having a boring and inactive day on a hungry day, then I have nothing to do but think about food.
 
I am thinking when I was on WW I did something (sort of) similar...I would eat my 20 pts, aka 1000 calories daily (actually it was more like 1500 as I got extra for breastfeeding), plus whatever exercise points I had, then bank about 35 "flex" points per week that I would consistently use on the weekend. That would be an extra...1750 calories dispersed through Sat and Sunday. Interesting, I had no idea that was the better way to go and was helping. I would have a lovely weekend with my calzones and fish tacos. I am going to try playing with my calorie numbers.

For those trying this for the first time....LOTS OF VEGGIES AND FRUITS on your down days. They do keep you from getting hungry. The fiber and the extra water does, that is. If you eat too many simple carbs and try and get into low calorie territory, you are going to be one hungry kid. Some type of protein at every meal also helped me.

I think the great thing about this program is that it gives you a mental break from being so strict each week and you get to have some treats. The best eating plan is the one you'll stick with!

THANKS for the info!
Jen
 
Wow! This sounds like it's exactly what I need. I am stuck at approximately 180lbs (I'm a 5'9" woman) and I can't seem to get past this sticking point. I want to get to 155-160lbs. I would love to get to 145lbs but I'm not sure if that's realistic. I work out 5-6 days per week, 4 days cardio (sometimes mixed with some strength) and the rest are strength days. The weight just refuses to budge! I try to eat properly (although that is the hardest part for me). But this may be my answer.

Okay now, I've done my numbers. Can anyone tell me if this sounds right: 1100, 1350, 2250, 1100, 1350, 900, 3150?

Sanchia
 
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