Vegetarian/vegan
- Thread starter janiejoey
- Start date
Miss Lee
Cathlete
Hi Janie,
A vegan is one who does not indulge in animal products of any kind. Vegans do not eat any meat, fish, dairy, etc., nor do they use personal items that come from animals, like leather shoes or furniture. A true vegetarian is a vegan, although some folks who indulge in eggs or dairy may call themselves vegetarian simply because they don't eat meat. HTH, and I hope you find all the answers you're looking for. I saw a snide post in response to a question you had and I was saddened by it. Take care.
Michele
A vegan is one who does not indulge in animal products of any kind. Vegans do not eat any meat, fish, dairy, etc., nor do they use personal items that come from animals, like leather shoes or furniture. A true vegetarian is a vegan, although some folks who indulge in eggs or dairy may call themselves vegetarian simply because they don't eat meat. HTH, and I hope you find all the answers you're looking for. I saw a snide post in response to a question you had and I was saddened by it. Take care.
Michele
Janie, I saw your post and the response, too, and had the same reaction as Michele. It is unfortunate that certain topics seem to invariably attract the holier-than-thou, even on the Cathe forum, which is, for the most part, incredibly diplomatic. I hope you know most people here aren't like that. And I think it's wonderful that you make the food choices which work for YOUR family. That's what's important.
Take care,
Marie
Take care,
Marie
Beavs
Cathlete
I too have noticed the rather snotty, holier than thou comments on this board. I have never chastised people about being vegan nor do I expect them to chastise me for my diet (One of my dearest friends is a vegan and this has never been a point of contention for either of us). Vegan types aren't going to "vegducate" me by showing me pictures of "carcasses" or recommending me books to convert me to their point of view, particularly because if we really start digging we learn that we are all hypocrits one way or another. Better not to throw stones if you know what I mean.
I've also noticed the flippant attitudes about food in general "Oh, I'm so enlightened now and I would never eat THAT! (insert your scapegoat food of choice here--mine is McDumpsters)" Whatever! I thought the point of this forum was for women to be supportive of one another--not look down our snoots at someone who eats/lives/perceives differently than some of us do in our pseudo enlightened worlds. Maybe while we educate ourselves about exercise and healthy eating we could learn a bit about respect for others and the effects of negative attitudes have on our well being. Wouldn't the world be a boring place if we were all exactly alike?
I've also noticed the flippant attitudes about food in general "Oh, I'm so enlightened now and I would never eat THAT! (insert your scapegoat food of choice here--mine is McDumpsters)" Whatever! I thought the point of this forum was for women to be supportive of one another--not look down our snoots at someone who eats/lives/perceives differently than some of us do in our pseudo enlightened worlds. Maybe while we educate ourselves about exercise and healthy eating we could learn a bit about respect for others and the effects of negative attitudes have on our well being. Wouldn't the world be a boring place if we were all exactly alike?
pixiesis
Cathlete
Hi Janie,
I'm also sorry that you got made fun of. It's an honest question and I also dislike when people are "snide" when other people use the terms differently than they do. I usually just explain my understanding of the terms, and only if it seems necessary. If you have any other questions about vegetarianism or veganism that haven't been addressed you can pm me.
Regarding Beavs's comment: I certainly didn't intend any disrespect to anyone when I started the thread, and for the most part it seems like it was a fairly pleasant exchange, which I thought many appreciated. Of course, it has been a controversial topic in the past so I can see why some are tired of the "vegducation". But I will say that your tone seems really angry when it comes to this issue. Are you saying that all of us "vegan types" here are holier than thou and are chastising the rest? If so, I think that's a little unfair. Being passionate about something and wanting to share it isn't wrong. As far as the comment you made about everyone being hypocritical, I have so say that I think you're right on here...
-Amy
I'm also sorry that you got made fun of. It's an honest question and I also dislike when people are "snide" when other people use the terms differently than they do. I usually just explain my understanding of the terms, and only if it seems necessary. If you have any other questions about vegetarianism or veganism that haven't been addressed you can pm me.
Regarding Beavs's comment: I certainly didn't intend any disrespect to anyone when I started the thread, and for the most part it seems like it was a fairly pleasant exchange, which I thought many appreciated. Of course, it has been a controversial topic in the past so I can see why some are tired of the "vegducation". But I will say that your tone seems really angry when it comes to this issue. Are you saying that all of us "vegan types" here are holier than thou and are chastising the rest? If so, I think that's a little unfair. Being passionate about something and wanting to share it isn't wrong. As far as the comment you made about everyone being hypocritical, I have so say that I think you're right on here...
-Amy
janiejoey
Cathlete
Hi Michele, Marie, Beavs, and Amy,
WOW! You are all so wonderful. When I was made fun of I was really hurt, and it bugged me all day. I even considered giving up using the forum and becoming a lurker. But then, I just realized that hey, I have a life outside this forum, and no matter where you are or what you are doing in life, there is always someone out there that is hurtful.
I must say though, with your great comments, and you supporting me from the bullies, I'll continue to express my feelings, and support people on the things I think I know about. I recieve so much from everyone else and would like to help people in return.
I can't tell you how much I loved reading your comments, (I'm back in the saddle again) thank you so much.
Janie
"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
WOW! You are all so wonderful. When I was made fun of I was really hurt, and it bugged me all day. I even considered giving up using the forum and becoming a lurker. But then, I just realized that hey, I have a life outside this forum, and no matter where you are or what you are doing in life, there is always someone out there that is hurtful.
I must say though, with your great comments, and you supporting me from the bullies, I'll continue to express my feelings, and support people on the things I think I know about. I recieve so much from everyone else and would like to help people in return.
I can't tell you how much I loved reading your comments, (I'm back in the saddle again) thank you so much.
Janie
"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
I agree with you Amy. I think Janie had a perfectly valid remark on your thread. I just hope that Beavs isn't lumping all vegans in her comments. Some, if not all us are really decent and caring people and we also tire of people constantly questioning and making snide remarks to us as well. I also think there is a difference between chastising someone and educating them on a topic you feel strongly about. This not only applies to diet, but everyday issues as well, including exercise. I've re-read the thread and I didn't sense any meanness or snideness at all. I will admit that it is difficult to convey meaning/emotions over the internet so sometimes things can be misinterpreted and we end up not understanding eachother. I've met some really great vegans on this board who have never said a mean word about their lifestyle choices and I commend them. They are the majority here and that needs to be recognized.
carolyn
ETA: I've realized that I shouldn't include myself in the "always nice" category here. I have to admit that I've let my emotions get the better of me in some situations(I think Michele know what I mean;-) ). But I'm working on being nicer. Afterall, we do have a lot in common on these boards and we should celebrate that as well
.
carolyn
ETA: I've realized that I shouldn't include myself in the "always nice" category here. I have to admit that I've let my emotions get the better of me in some situations(I think Michele know what I mean;-) ). But I'm working on being nicer. Afterall, we do have a lot in common on these boards and we should celebrate that as well
.
Miss Lee
Cathlete
Amy, I just want to say that I think your thread is great. I really only saw one post that I thought was unkind, the one in response to Janie's question. Look how many views and replies your thread has had! I knew it would be welcome, and I think there is something in there for everyone, including nonvegans.
Janie, I'm glad you're feeling better about things. That post would've upset me, too.
ETA that I'm lol at Carolyn! Hey, nobody is nice all of the time, well, except for me, of course-- :7. This is a big tent and there's room for all of us.
Michele
Janie, I'm glad you're feeling better about things. That post would've upset me, too.
ETA that I'm lol at Carolyn! Hey, nobody is nice all of the time, well, except for me, of course--
:7. This is a big tent and there's room for all of us.Michele
Beavs
Cathlete
Amy,
I know you didn't intend any disrespect and I can certainly appreciate the thread's relevance. I did not mean to imply that all vegans have the "holier than thou" attitude but some on this board do which is evident by their caustic comments. I've also seen a bit of the arrogance at my local food coop which I admit has shaped my view of things. Suffice it to say that I respect personal choice and expect the same from others.
Janie,
I also have thought about no longer coming the the forum for the same reasons as you. I'm glad to see you've changed your mind and will be hanging around asking questions. Maybe those who can't show a little civility can sit in the corner with a dunce cap
I know you didn't intend any disrespect and I can certainly appreciate the thread's relevance. I did not mean to imply that all vegans have the "holier than thou" attitude but some on this board do which is evident by their caustic comments. I've also seen a bit of the arrogance at my local food coop which I admit has shaped my view of things. Suffice it to say that I respect personal choice and expect the same from others.
Janie,
I also have thought about no longer coming the the forum for the same reasons as you. I'm glad to see you've changed your mind and will be hanging around asking questions. Maybe those who can't show a little civility can sit in the corner with a dunce cap
pixiesis
Cathlete
Janie, Michele, Marie, Beavs, Carol (Carolyn to non-relatives),
I'm so proud of us for working through our issues and coming to an understanding. We can and should get along, share advice and information, and be supportive to others, whether or not we agree about everything (although people who hate cardio are way beyond my understanding-what's up with them??? }( ).
-Amy
I'm so proud of us for working through our issues and coming to an understanding. We can and should get along, share advice and information, and be supportive to others, whether or not we agree about everything (although people who hate cardio are way beyond my understanding-what's up with them??? }( ).
-Amy
allwildgirl
Cathlete
"I've also noticed the flippant attitudes about food in general "Oh, I'm so enlightened now and I would never eat THAT! (insert your scapegoat food of choice here--mine is McDumpsters)" "
If you're referring to my "I can't believe I ate that" thread, I wasn't in any way implying that I or anyone else on this board is "enlightened". It was a FUN thread. Just like the title implies - I can't believe some of the weird/unhealthy things I used to eat. I don't give a rat's behind what people eat. I can't for the life of me figure out how anyone could make more of that thread than what was intended - a lighthearted look back.
If you're referring to my "I can't believe I ate that" thread, I wasn't in any way implying that I or anyone else on this board is "enlightened". It was a FUN thread. Just like the title implies - I can't believe some of the weird/unhealthy things I used to eat. I don't give a rat's behind what people eat. I can't for the life of me figure out how anyone could make more of that thread than what was intended - a lighthearted look back.
Janie,
Here is a good web site if you want to learn more about vegetarianism and veganism: www.vrg.org It includes recipes and nutritional info from registered dietitians.
FitDoggie
"The reward for work well done is the opportunity to do more."
Here is a good web site if you want to learn more about vegetarianism and veganism: www.vrg.org It includes recipes and nutritional info from registered dietitians.
FitDoggie
"The reward for work well done is the opportunity to do more."
pixiesis
Cathlete
Shelley,
I didn't catch that reference to your thread at first but I want to just let you know that I think the fun spirit of that thread was completely clear. For some reason, it's hilarious to look back and our wild and unbridled ways now that we have reigned ourselves in. I'd also like to add something about the "look at me I'm so enlightened now" thing. Thank GOODNESS that we have become enlightened about so much. Seriously! I'm grateful for all of the wonderful and enlightened information I find at the forums! And, though I don't want to come off as self-righteous about stuff like being vegan and working out, I'm willing to risk people seeing me that way for the sake of sharing something that has been so positive in so many ways. Maybe someday our "goody goody" words and actions will make a difference to someone.
-Amy
I didn't catch that reference to your thread at first but I want to just let you know that I think the fun spirit of that thread was completely clear. For some reason, it's hilarious to look back and our wild and unbridled ways now that we have reigned ourselves in. I'd also like to add something about the "look at me I'm so enlightened now" thing. Thank GOODNESS that we have become enlightened about so much. Seriously! I'm grateful for all of the wonderful and enlightened information I find at the forums! And, though I don't want to come off as self-righteous about stuff like being vegan and working out, I'm willing to risk people seeing me that way for the sake of sharing something that has been so positive in so many ways. Maybe someday our "goody goody" words and actions will make a difference to someone.
-Amy
kathryn
Cathlete
Hi Janie!
There are several types of vegetarians: the most typical, perhaps, are lacto-ovo vegetarians, who eat dairy products and eggs in addition to plant foods. There are also lacto-vegetarians (plants plus dairy) and ovo-vegetarians (plants plus eggs).
Back somewhere in the early 80's, when a lot of people were avoiding "red meat," some author (I read the guys book, but don't remember his name)invented the terms "pollo-vegetarian" to refer to those who ate ALMOST a vegetarian diet, but with the addition of poultry, and "pesco-vegetarian" for those who ate ALMOST a vegetarian diet, but with the addition of fish and seafood. Unfortunately, this has lead to some confusion, and there are now many people who refer to these diets as "vegetarian," though they really aren't. Of course, people can eat whatever diet they choose, but those who eat chicken and/or fish and call themselves 'vegetarian' are a source of consternation for those of us who wish to keep the real meaning of words.
As Michele stated, a vegan not only avoids all animal products in food, but also in other areas wherever possible (in practice, being a total 'vegan' may be impossible, but I see it as a continuous goal to strive for). Some people use the term 'vegan' to refer to diet only, while others prefer to use the term 'total vegetarian' or "dietary vegan' for those who eat vegan, but may still wear leather or wool, etc.
FYI: The term "vegan" was invented about 70 years ago by a British man (who just recently died) who was involved in a British vegetarian society, but wanted to go further. He formed an off-shoot organization, and called those who abstained from all animal products "vegans" (pronounced "VEE gn"...I had no idea how it was pronounced when I started reading about it!) by taking the beginning and end (the "extremes") of the word 'vegetarian').
There are several types of vegetarians: the most typical, perhaps, are lacto-ovo vegetarians, who eat dairy products and eggs in addition to plant foods. There are also lacto-vegetarians (plants plus dairy) and ovo-vegetarians (plants plus eggs).
Back somewhere in the early 80's, when a lot of people were avoiding "red meat," some author (I read the guys book, but don't remember his name)invented the terms "pollo-vegetarian" to refer to those who ate ALMOST a vegetarian diet, but with the addition of poultry, and "pesco-vegetarian" for those who ate ALMOST a vegetarian diet, but with the addition of fish and seafood. Unfortunately, this has lead to some confusion, and there are now many people who refer to these diets as "vegetarian," though they really aren't. Of course, people can eat whatever diet they choose, but those who eat chicken and/or fish and call themselves 'vegetarian' are a source of consternation for those of us who wish to keep the real meaning of words.
As Michele stated, a vegan not only avoids all animal products in food, but also in other areas wherever possible (in practice, being a total 'vegan' may be impossible, but I see it as a continuous goal to strive for). Some people use the term 'vegan' to refer to diet only, while others prefer to use the term 'total vegetarian' or "dietary vegan' for those who eat vegan, but may still wear leather or wool, etc.
FYI: The term "vegan" was invented about 70 years ago by a British man (who just recently died) who was involved in a British vegetarian society, but wanted to go further. He formed an off-shoot organization, and called those who abstained from all animal products "vegans" (pronounced "VEE gn"...I had no idea how it was pronounced when I started reading about it!) by taking the beginning and end (the "extremes") of the word 'vegetarian').
janiejoey
Cathlete
Good Morning Everyone,
Thank you so much for all your educated and life experiences, without any of you, how in the world could we learn? I've gone on the sites recommended, and I will continue to investigate vegetarian/vegan, because although I was in the dark about it then, I won't be now. Knowledge is so powerful, isn't it? This is such a great help to me.
I'm so proud of us all taking charge of our lifestyles and doing the very best we know how to do, and then sharing them with people who want to learn.
You are AWESOME!
Janie
"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
Thank you so much for all your educated and life experiences, without any of you, how in the world could we learn? I've gone on the sites recommended, and I will continue to investigate vegetarian/vegan, because although I was in the dark about it then, I won't be now. Knowledge is so powerful, isn't it? This is such a great help to me.
I'm so proud of us all taking charge of our lifestyles and doing the very best we know how to do, and then sharing them with people who want to learn.
You are AWESOME!
Janie
"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
kathryn
Cathlete
> I've
>gone on the sites recommended, and I will continue to
>investigate vegetarian/vegan, because although I was in the
>dark about it then, I won't be now.
I didn't see any mention of these sites, which also have good info:
www.vegsource.com
www.veganoutreach.com
>gone on the sites recommended, and I will continue to
>investigate vegetarian/vegan, because although I was in the
>dark about it then, I won't be now.
I didn't see any mention of these sites, which also have good info:
www.vegsource.com
www.veganoutreach.com
janiejoey
Cathlete
Hello, Kathryn,
These are great sites. Lots of information on them. I'll be able to spend hours at a time roaming through it, and learn, learn, learn. I do want to some day become a vegan, and my goal is just that. My DH (I think) would enjoy the process as well. I know though, we will take it slow and easy.
By the way, your sourdough starter is in the mail. Please let me know how your modifications on the bread turn out. I bet you will make a mean sourdough bread. And if it is as good as I think it will be, please give me the recipe.
If any one else is interrested in having fun with baking sourdough bread, I'm willing to share my starter your way. Just give me your address and I'll do that. It's a dry starter, and I'll hook you up to a site with all the free info you need to make a perfect bread, then you can modify at will.
Thanks again Kathryn,
Janie
"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
These are great sites. Lots of information on them. I'll be able to spend hours at a time roaming through it, and learn, learn, learn. I do want to some day become a vegan, and my goal is just that. My DH (I think) would enjoy the process as well. I know though, we will take it slow and easy.
By the way, your sourdough starter is in the mail. Please let me know how your modifications on the bread turn out. I bet you will make a mean sourdough bread. And if it is as good as I think it will be, please give me the recipe.
If any one else is interrested in having fun with baking sourdough bread, I'm willing to share my starter your way. Just give me your address and I'll do that. It's a dry starter, and I'll hook you up to a site with all the free info you need to make a perfect bread, then you can modify at will.
Thanks again Kathryn,
Janie
"If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all."
-My mother, Mary Cooper-
Beavs
Cathlete
I think we can all partake in that discussion and in fact I did (those damn Ramen noodles!) the the fact that it was meant to be fun was quite clear so my comment was not directed at you (or anyone in particular)
I just have noticed comments in various discussions over time to take an air of superiority in terms of eating styles when it just seems so damned silly. Women like to beat themselves up and occasionally each other over food choices--totally counterproductive to actually living a healthy life and enjoying it while we have it.
BTW, love the "limecat" pic.
I just have noticed comments in various discussions over time to take an air of superiority in terms of eating styles when it just seems so damned silly. Women like to beat themselves up and occasionally each other over food choices--totally counterproductive to actually living a healthy life and enjoying it while we have it.
BTW, love the "limecat" pic.
melodygirl
Cathlete
I really like it when we all share and play nicely.