Update on Minnie

LauraMax

Cathlete
She is now at the vet. She's been there since Saturday morning. After spending all kinds of money on Nature's Miracle & Feliway (Donna, that stuff is expensive! That little 2 oz bottle cost me $33! No static mat--apparently they've been discontinued) & leaving my bedroom door open Friday night she peed AND pooped all over my couch. I was SO PI$$ED Saturday morning I couldn't stand the sight of her. I called the vet & asked if they had any appointments, they said no, so I asked them to just take her & board her for the weekend so she 1) wouldn't pee on the couch AGAIN & 2) I didn't wrap my hands around her little neck & throttle her.

The vet will run tests from her urine today & let me know if she's sick. Strange that I'm praying my cat is sick! If there's nothing physically wrong w/her we'll discuss other options (the nurse mentioned valium--I can't believe I'm considering putting my cat on valium!).

I'm really struggling w/this (although Max seemed OK without her all w/e). She's no Cosmo but it'd break my heart if I had to lose another family member so soon. :-(
 
I'm wondering if she's picking up YOUR stress now, and that could be aggravating the problem. Maybe you should both go on valium, LOL!

(Cats are very good at sensing our moods: when my father was ill with cancer, and I was stressed out, my cat Sweat-Pea started pulling out her hair, and ended up with several bald spots. There was nothing physically wrong with her, and it resolved itself after my father died and that tension was over, but it was obviously a hard time for her as well.)
 
Hi Laura,

did Minnie start that behavior after Cosmo was gone? Or did she do it before?

A lot of times when cats pee outside the litterbox, like on the sofa (or like mine peeing in my clean laundry in the laundry basket, arrrghhh!)etc. it can mean that she is disturbed by recent adjustments in her life or surrundings - a new person/pet in the household, a person/pet missing, a more anxious attitude from the owner because of stress.

If she started it after Cosmo left, together what you are describing about Max's behavior, it maybe that your emotional stress over Cosmo's passing and/or your work is the culprit. Cats and dogs will pick up a lot of our emotions that we don't even know we project and they get stressed out as well.
Peeing somewhere, is a cat's way of expressing aggitation, not a personal message to you.

Wow, valium is kind of drastic, I don't know, I probably would consider this a last resort, if nothing else works. But then again, I am not the one whose sofa gets peed on. I know I was pretty pissed at my cat when we got him and the the first 2 months he would pee and poop anywhere BUT in the litter box. He eventually stopped it.

Good luck, keep us posted on Minnie!

Carola

ETA, Oops, I guess Kathryn and I had the same thought, but she was faster, she already posted while I was still typing :)
 
Nah, this started on & off about 3 weeks ago so it's not related to Cosmo or my stress. I don't know WTH is going on, I'll feel terrible if I have to take her to a shelter but I just cannot have a cat peeing all over my couch. It took 2 soakings of the Nature's Miracle plus an overnight sitting of Arm & Hammer carpet deodorizer for pet smells to get rid of it this time--I mean, she really drenched it!

I'm so frustrated & sad. I wish poor Minnie would just straighten up & fly right so we both weren't going through this.
 
Can you temporarily put a plastic cover on your couch to try to get her out of the habit of going there? I think sometimes cats (and dogs) pick up a habit after they've done something repeatedly and its hard to break them of it.

When this started happening, had you changed her litter? One of my cats peed in the floor because he didn't like the new litter (it WAS fairly perfumey). I immediately switched back to his old familiar litter and have never had another problem with him.
 
I don't know if your cat is declawed or not but I do know that some declawed cats cannot stand the kitty litter on their paws. I had a friend with this problem and he switched to the newspaper litter and that solved the problem.
 
Laura,

I TOTALLY understand your frustration and DO NOT think you should have to live with your cat peeing and poo-ing on your couch, BUT...if it's not the result of a medical problem, would you please rethink your decision to take her to a shelter? I don't mean to make you feel worse about an already awful situation, but the reality is that MILLIONS of animals are killed in shelters annually. Everyone thinks their animal is special enough to get adopted, but in reality, adoption statistics for shelters are very low. There are just too many animals. Worse for older dogs and cats. Most people want puppies and kittens.

"Every day across the United States, volunteers and staff in animal shelters and animal control facilities see the results of irresponsible pet ownership and dog and cat overpopulation. However, there is little reliable data available to tabulate trends and patterns nationwide.

The following figures were gleaned from independent studies and estimates by experts in the animal welfare and related fields. These should be considered ballpark figures only. Most of the studies were national and there is tremendous variation by region.

There are about 5000 community animal shelters nationwide that are independent; there is no national organization monitoring these shelters. The phrases "humane society" and "SPCA" are generic terms; shelters using those names are not part of the Humane Society of the United States or the ASPCA. Currently, no government institution or animal organization is responsible for tabulating national statistics for the animal protection movement.

Animal Shelters

Approximately 8-12 million companion animals enter animal shelters nationwide every year and approximately 5-9 million are euthanized (60% of dogs and 70% of cats). Shelter intakes are about evenly divided between those relinquished by owners and those picked up by animal control. These are national estimates; the percentage of euthanasia may vary from state to state.

Less than two percent of cats and only 15-20% of dogs are returned to their owners. Most of these were identified with tags, tattoos or microchips.

25% of dogs that enter local shelters are purebred.

Only 10% of the animals received by shelters have been spayed or neutered. 75% of owned pets are neutered" (ASPCA, http://www.geocities.com/s_u_n_pa/ShelterFacts.html).

Maybe you can keep your cat in a contained area (not the best solution, but better than being killed) or find someone who can take her. I just hate to think of an animal who had a home and was loved going to a shelter to wait until their time is up and then be killed.
PLEASE don't take this the wrong way. I don't mean to be ugly or start a fight (I have seen so many on these forums). I was just asking that you try and consider other options. Hopefully, there will be an explanation to this behavior and the problem can be solved.

As a former vet tech, I have seen animals put on valium and even prozac. It does seem to help.

Good luck.

Lorie
 
See, this is what's making me nuts. I know sending her to a shelter is a certain death sentence. In fact the vet told me if I took her to a shelter I was obligated to tell them why & the shelter, no-kill or not, would automatically put her down. Kitten or cat, no one will adopt an animal that'll pee all over their furniture.

Speaking of the vet, I called at 1:00 & still no test results. I can't take much more of this!

I could put her permanently in the basement but what kind of a life would that be for any animal? OK she'd still be alive, but her quality of life would be zero.
 
Sometimes after a cat pee's on stuff other than the litter box they get confused and this becomes a habit. Occasionally you have to retrain a cat to use their litter box. This happened once to me when my cat had a little urinary discomfort and didn't want to use his litter box. He would hold it and then go other places. Once the discomfort passed (he never actually got sick, who knows what caused it but it went away on it's own) he kept going in the places he went when he was not feeling well. I put him in the bathroom (very small, not much floor space) with food and water in a small clean area and his litter box. This basically gave him no place to pee or poo but the litter or where he was sitting. I left him there for about 12 hours (for some cats it can take up to 24 hrs) occasionally visiting him and petting him, but not letting him out. This was enough to retrain him and he's used the litter box ever since.
Best of luck to you and sweet little Minnie! I know it's tough when they do this (my cat's favorite place was MY BED!!) but we have to remember that as tough as it is for us to have our stuff pee'd on, its tougher for them to be confused and perhaps sick. They don't want to hurt us or make us angry or sad, they are just going through something that is too much for them.

--Laura
 
Yeah, the shelters usually automatically kill "owner turn-ins" because there is no chance of them being a lost pet and someone coming to look for them.

I understand your reticence about the basement, but if I was in that situation (I have dogs, so I am thinking if one suddenly became aggressive towards the others or something), I would keep the dog in the basement and just make sure to take him or her on walks and give them attention. As for a cat, they are way more independent and don't need as much "people time" (I know I am speaking generally). Maybe Minnie wouldn't be that upset? And she could still see you. Maybe you only keep her in the basement when she is unsupervised and with you when you are able to watch her (as much as you can watch a cat).

I feel your frustration. There have been many times my dogs have ruined one thing or another (like eating my favorite pair of shoes that I got 7 years ago and can no longer find) and I absolutely want to kill them, but I realize they are not doing it out of spite or being mean. I am sure Minnie is sorry and senses your disappointment.

Once again, so sorry you are dealing with this! How stressful!!!

Lorie
 
Laura,

I agree with Lorie, please don't turn her into a shelter, no matter what the vet finds out and no matter how pissed off you are right now.

Even young animals get killed at shelters because shelters are running out of room and they need to make room for new animals that are turned in.

The one and only dog I ever turned into a shelter (a stray that I found) was a 9-months old border collie, he was held for 3 days and deemed non-adoptable and was on the euthanasia list. Why? Because he was acting scared after he had been picked up and put in the animal control truck.

He was a very sweet but VERY high-energy dog! Had I not emailed Azbordercollie Rescue to notify them about the dog, he would have been put down. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I signed a death sentence for this sweet little guy by turning him into animal control. He'd be dead had I not notified AZBR and had they not followed up!

The story had a happy ending and he was adopted by a woman who has as much energy as he has :)

Seeing and reading on these forums how much compassion you have, I don't think you could live with yourself, if this happened to your cat.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't want to patronize you. Just wanted to share a different perspective.

Carola
 
OK still haven't talked to the vet but his nurse called & told me there's nothing physically wrong, it's definitely behavioral, & he'll be calling me tomorrow afternoon to talk more. After talking to her & reading all your posts I'm thinking I have two options:

1) keep her & confine her to the basement when I go to bed.
2) send her back to the shelter where I got her. It's actually the best shelter I've ever seen & the nurse said b/c I've had her for less than a year they might keep her & try to retrain her. I guess it's worth a conversation w/them anyway.

<sigh> all very sad. I'm leaning towards keeping her--she might not have the best quality of life but at least it is a life. And I still won't have mice (yeah I know, sounds selfish but it's why I got her in the first place x( ).
 
Laura,

It's not selfish and many animals love having a "job." I have a therapy dog that goes to work with me and he seems to really enjoy going. On the days when I can't take him (and he knows I am going to work) he stands by the door and cries. He doesn't do that if I am just going somewhere besides work. Anyway, my point is, if you keep Minnie and put her in the basement at night, at least you will know that she is being taken care of. Also, all she will probably do down there is sleep which is what you'll be doing so it's not like she'd be "missing out." Yes, I know I am putting human characteristics like "love" and "miss out" onto animals, but I do think they have certain "human-like" tendencies.

Anyway, keep us posted. I think Minnie will be happy to stay with you (even if she does have to sleep in the basement!).

Lorie
 
OK, here's some possibly good news--my dad, who LOVES cats, said he'd take her. He already has 2 cats. One is a really old diabetic who doesn't move around much. The other is fairly young & active. Do you guys think a cat w/behavioral problems would adjust well? My dad's semi-retired & she'd definitely get lots of love & attention.

So of the 3 options, which do you think is best?
 
I think that Minnie going to live with your dad would be great! If she starts to act out and pee on his stuff, then you could always go with option 2 which would be sleeping in your basement. Why not give it a try? She would probably really love the attention. The only questsion would be whether or not his other two cats would accept Minnie. I have heard it is much harder to integrate a new cat into a home than a dog. Since my dogs are cat-haters, I don't have any cats.

I am just so glad it is looking like she won't go to a shelter! :7

Lorie
 
Laura,

Are you sure a no kill shelter will euthanize her? I agree you're obligated to tell them about her problem otherwise she might do the same thing in a new home and probably end up at a shelter anyway, but I think some no kill shelters might keep her. I don't know what there is in your area, but in Utah we have Best Friends Animal Society and they never euthanize an animal unless it is suffering and can't be helped. If an animal is considered unadoptable they give it a permanent home at Best Friends. I know not every organization can do this, (Best Friends is the largest no kill organization in the country), but it's worth a try to see what is in your area. Maybe they can retrain Minnie and find her a new home. Good luck.
 
Best Friends is one of the few truly no-kill shelters. Unfortunately, when space becomes an issue, most shelters will kill. It is not the shelters' fault, but the irresponsible people who breed, refuse to get their pets fixed, or drop off their pets when they are no longer a "novelty." For the reality of no-kill, Google "No-Kill Solutions" and "Nathan Winograd."

Best Friends is a remarkable place. It's heaven for animals...

Lorie
 
I wish there was a time when shelters become obsolete, but until they do, ALL shelters should follow Best Friend's lead. They are amazing. I do hope to visit one day.

Here's a tearjerker about how Mike Arms (now works at BF) got into rescue:

The Story of Our President-Mike Arms

Michael Arms was an enthusiastic young man who set out to change the world, one puppy at a time. After completing his education and serving a tour of duty as a United States Marine in Vietnam, Mike returned to his home in New York and accepted a position with the Humane Society.


While he took great pride in saving the lives of orphaned pets by finding loving, permanent homes for them, the stress of all the pets he could not save was beginning to take its toll. He was losing weight. He tossed and turned through one sleepless night after another. Convinced that there was nothing he could do, he tendered his resignation and accepted a position outside of the animal welfare industry.


During his final week, just as he was ready to leave the office one evening, a call came in informing the Humane Society about a dog that had been stuck by a car in the Bronx. When Mike’s secretary asked what she should do he told her to send a truck out to pick up the dog. “There’s nobody available. They’ve all gone home for the day.” So Mike removed his suit jacket, put on a technician’s coat, and drove to the site to pick up the dying puppy.


When he arrived, it was immediately obvious that the pup’s back was broken. Bending over to pick it up, he was interrupted by two men standing in a doorway. “What do you think you’re doing?” they asked. Mike explained that the puppy was hurt and that he was going to take it to the Humane Society.


“No you’re not.”


“Why, is it your dog?” asked Arms.


“No, but we have a bet on how long it’s going to take before it dies.”


“You guys are really sick,” he said, stooping once again to pick up the little body.


“That was when these two heroes attacked me from behind. They stabbed me; they beat me, and left me there in the street to die with the puppy.”


Just as Mike Arms was slipping into unconsciousness, the pup crawled over to him and began licking his face. “There was no way that the little guy should have been able to reach me with his broken back. But somehow he pulled himself over to me with his front paws and brought me back to life.”


“There in the gutter I prayed and promised God that if he would allow me to live, I would never turn my back on an orphaned pet.”


The puppy didn’t survive, but Mike Arms did. And since that time Mike has dedicated his life to saving orphaned pets. He is credited with finding loving, lifelong homes for more dogs and cats than anyone else in history.


Mike Arms’ success as an “Adoptions Guru” began during his years as Director of the North Shore Animal League in Port Washington, New York. While the shelter was having success finding homes for many of their pets, Mike felt that it wasn’t enough and he began searching for ways to increase public awareness about the animals in the kennels awaiting the arrival of their new families.


One idea that Mike implemented was the first “Adopt-a-thon”. “We stayed open for 36 straight hours to find homes for the animals. We held activities all weekend long to bring families into the shelter. The result was more adoptions than we had ever completed during a single weekend.” That was the first Adopt-a-thon. Within a few years the annual event grew to international prominence including shelters and rescue organizations around the world.


As Mike Arms’ reputation and success spread he found that more and more of his time was being spent traveling around the country, helping other shelters to increase their adoption rates and decrease the number of pets that were being euthanized because they had no homes. “I finally had to make a choice. I decided to leave North Shore and devote my time to helping other shelters.”


While his work as one of the world’s most successful and respected animal shelter consultants was rewarding, the travel commitments and time away from his family proved to be a heavy burden. “I wasn’t sure how much longer I could continue to keep that pace. Then, during a consulting tour, I spent some time with an old friend who was a shelter director in San Diego.”


Arms recalls that one day, during a lunch break, his friend suggested they take a drive to Helen Woodward Animal Center located just north of San Diego. “I had never seen a shelter like it. In addition to dog and cat adoptions, they had an active education program, therapy services both on and off site, a state of the art large-animal hospital and a pet boarding facility.” But he recalls that the staff made the greatest impression on him. “We stopped by unannounced. Everywhere we went there were staff members or volunteers ready to provide information and answer our questions. I was very impressed.”


A few months later, Arms made a decision to accept the last job of his illustrious career. He became President and Executive Director of Helen Woodward Animal Center.


“While the Center had an excellent reputation in the community, I felt that there was more we could be doing.” He was right. Under Arms’ direction, Helen Woodward Animal Center soon doubled then tripled the number of adoptions completed each month. The Education program, already successful, began setting records for the number of youngsters that were receiving humane education rising from fewer than 4,000 to more than 33,000 per year.


Within a few months after his arrival Arms developed a plan for an adoption drive to run between Thanksgiving and New Year’s. He called it “Home 4 the Holidays”. “Nobody wants to think about their best friend waking up behind bars on a holiday morning. And we know that more families invite pets into their homes during the holiday season than at any other time of year. We just needed to spread the word and encourage people to save lives by adopting shelter pets…not just Helen Woodward Animal Center...”


In 1999 Arms organized all 14 shelters in the San Diego area to work together during the first Home 4 the Holidays campaign. The result was more than 2,500 adoptions. Some shelters reported that they had increased their adoption rates by 30 to 50 percent over previous years.


Word of this success spread and during the second Home 4 the Holidays drive Helen Woodward Animal Center was joined by 130 shelters and rescue groups in 5 states. As a result 20,000 orphaned dogs and cats began the New Year in their new homes.


Home 4 the Holidays 2001 grew dramatically when 450 animal shelters in 4 countries climbed on the bandwagon to save lives and find homes for orphaned animals. Arms recalls, “I had always been proud of my work at North Shore and all of the lives we saved. I never dreamed that we would have this kind of success with Home 4 the Holidays.”


But Home 4 the Holidays was successful. During the 2001 drive the participants reported 100,124 adoptions, making Home 4 the Holidays the largest pet adoption drive him history! “We were so pleased with the results, but in the back of our minds there was always the thought of the animals that we had not saved…the ones that had been euthanized due to a lack of space. The ones who woke up on Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year’s mornings looking out from behind bars.”


When Home 4 the Holidays 2002 kicked off 9 days before Thanksgiving, nearly 1,200 animal shelters and rescue groups in 20 countries around the world were working together to find homes for the pets entrusted to their care. By the time the campaign ended on the first weekend of the New Year more than 180,000 pets had been adopted, setting a new world record.


Home 4 the Holidays 2003 continued the tradition of breaking adoption records. More than 1,300 animal shelters, adoption centers, and pet rescued groups around the world joined “paws” to successfully place more than 261,000 pets in the homes where they will spend the rest of their lives.


“I’m often asked why I’ve dedicated my life to saving animals. I’ll never forget that brave puppy with a broken back, crawling through a gutter in the Bronx, to bring me back to life. And I’ll never forget the promise that I made to God that day. How could I possibly think of doing anything else?”



MY IDOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lorie
 

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