Speaking of PC, can somebody help me understand Kwanza?

L Sass

L Sass

Cathlete
Or more specifically why our children are taught about the necessity of wishing one another a happy Kwanza this time of year? At this time of year our Christian friends celebrate the birth of Christ, a religious celebration. Our Jewish friends celebrate Hanukah, a religous celebration of the miracle of lights. I understand that Hanukah is not one of the holiest of holidays, but it is a religious celebration that occurs this time of year.

But Kwanza as I understand it, is a cultural celebration, which I think is wonderful. But don't those who celebrate Kwanza also celebrate Christmas - and forgive my ignorance if I am mistaken? And if that is the case, aren't those who celebrate Kwanza covered by wishes for a Merry Christmas? I really don't want to ruffle any feathers, but if we are acknowledging religious or spiritual celebrations, why are we making special acknowledgements for previously non-existing cultural creations? If all of our ethinc groups come up with very legitimate celebrations of their CULTURE - shall they all be acknowledged separately so as to be PC? I guess I just don't get it (perhaps I should have posted in the things I just don't get thread.)
Lorrie

Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
 
Wow, I have to give you credit for thinking so much about this.

But I don't know a single soul who celebrates Kwanzaa, it is not taught in my children's schools, and so haven't had to cross that bridge. However, if there were someone I know who does, I would acknowledge it - simply and genuinely - and move on.
 
Thanks Marie for that info. It appears to be a beautiful time of cultural awareness, appreciation, and committment! But I still don't get it - although based on what GreenEyedLefty says, perhaps it's just my area. My kindergartener learned and sang Kwanzaa (sorry for the earlier misspelling) songs for her holiday concert. And when they sang "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" the words were:

We wish you a merry Christmas
We wish you a happy Hanukah
We wish you a happy Kwanzaa
and a happy new year.

She is under the impression that some folks celebrate Christmas, some Hanukah, and some Kwanzaa, but that's not so. I just don't always understand the PC thing.

Lorrie

Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
 
Lorrie - you are right. Kwanzaa is a cultural, not a religious celebration. It sounds like you live in an area where a number of people celebrate this? I see no problem acknowledging it - Happy Holidays surely works here - covers all bases, no matter what they be. I do agree with your observations, however.
 
Related to your post, Lorrie, I've been thinking lately: why can't everyone just say Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings?? Although I'm not offended by the "Merry Christmas" cards I've received, and I appreciate being rememberd by the people who send them to me, I can't help but think that it would be just as easy to buy cards that are imprinted with "Happy Holidays".

At work, all the professional holiday cards I get say "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" and I really appreciate them. The personal cards I get at home are more specific, either saying "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukah". I confess I was a bit disappointed to receive a "Happy Hanukah" card from my own stepson, because I feel he should know me better than anyone. I think my DH's entire family are in denial about me not believing in organized religion. I guess that's a different topic though.

I may not believe in organized religion, but I do love the festive atmosphere of this time of year and I'm happy to celebrate anything, any time! :D Especially if there's good food and wine involved. ;) :+

Nancy
 
>Related to your post, Lorrie, I've been thinking lately: why
>can't everyone just say Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings??
> Although I'm not offended by the "Merry Christmas" cards I've
>received, and I appreciate being rememberd by the people who
>send them to me, I can't help but think that it would be just
>as easy to buy cards that are imprinted with "Happy
>Holidays".
>
>At work, all the professional holiday cards I get say "Happy
>Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" and I really appreciate
>them. The personal cards I get at home are more specific,
>either saying "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukah". I confess
>I was a bit disappointed to receive a "Happy Hanukah" card
>from my own stepson, because I feel he should know me better
>than anyone. I think my DH's entire family are in denial
>about me not believing in organized religion. I guess that's
>a different topic though.
>
>I may not believe in organized religion, but I do love the
>festive atmosphere of this time of year and I'm happy to
>celebrate anything, any time! :D Especially if there's good
>food and wine involved. ;) :+
>
>Nancy


Nance, I think for many of us this time of year is all about our beliefs--our faith. This holiday originates from our Judeo-Christian beliefs. I appreciate it when people wish me a Merry Christmas because I am a Christian and this is not a secular holiday for me. I can't speak for everyone but, I am resistant to any pressure to turn this in to a secular event. I realize that not everyone believes as I do and I certainly don't want to offend anyone but, I really don't understand why anyone would be put out by a card with a religious message. After all, they're not saying you have to believe as they believe, they're simply extending a greeting. It's pretty hard to know who believes what these days so I tend to go with Merry Christmas and if people get upset about it then I think it says more about them than it does about me.

I sent a few "Happy Holidays" cards this year only because I didn't get around to ordering my usual Christmas card with a religious message. When I send a card to someone I hope it gives them a warm feeling to know that I care about them.
 
Nancy,

I get the feeling, from my very religious relatives, that some people take it very personally if ANYone says "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" to them. (I've also learned never to use "Xmas" around them, even in a quickly written e-mail discussing "holiday" schedules!)

I find it weird, too, because (here I go telling my age again!) when I was a little girl, my mother ADORED Andy Williams (okay, I had a crush on him when I was five!) and his Christmas album had one of my favorite carols at the time, "Happy Holidays!/Happy Holidays!/May the Merry Bells keep bringin'/Happy Holidays to you!" Now, there aren't many people who will argue with you that Andy Williams is about as WASPy as you can get! I don't think everyone was in such an uproar back then, when he sang that with the Osmond Brothers (those heretics!) back in the 60s.

ANYway...Happy Holidays!
 
Michele,

It seems to me that what you are saying is inherently contradictory. If "Merry Christmas" is not a secular greeting to you, and if you appreciate people saying it to you because you are a Christian, then doesn't it follow that it makes no sense to say it to those who are not Christians? Do you see my point? For example, what would you think if someone sent you a "Happy Hanukah" card that said "wishing you and your family a Happy Hanukah"? You might not be offended, but wouldn't you feel that that person was kind of ignoring who you are a bit?

I guess what I'm saying is that a "Season's Greetings" card is appropriate for everyone, so you can't go wrong. Of course, I realize that here in New York city we do things a bit differently just because we are SUCH a melting pot. I love being part of this melting pot, and I enjoy getting cards that acknowledge the magnificent variety of people we have here and that wish everyone well. :D

Nancy
 
I think part of the issue people have with "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" is because for some reason the word Christmas has become un-PC and there are those of us who have grown tired of it. For me, I always said "Happy Holidays" until the last couple of years, when I grew tired of going into stores that had Happy Hanukah displays, Kwaanza displays, even Eid displays in some forward-thinking places, yet in front of the Xmas displays there were signs that said "Happy Holidays!" My post office last year had big posters of Eid, Hanukah and Kwaanza stamps, but the poster for Xmas stamps said, "Holiday" stamps. It's that sort of thing that is making people gravitate to Merry Christmas, IMO. YMMV.

Sparrow

ETA: BTW I'm an atheist, so for me it's not about being offended from a religious POV at all.

My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
I have no problem with Kwanzaa being just a cultural celebration. Although Christmas and Hannukah are based on religious celebrations, they have both become more cultural celebrations - many of the rituals associated with Christmas - cutting down and decorating the tree, the big feasts - are based on pagan rituals rather than honoring the birth of Jesus. I'm not religious at all and believe me I revel in all the trappings of Christmas - the presents, the gatherings, the FOOD. And I think my Jewish friends celebrate Hannukah with gifts and family gatherings as more of a cultural thing, rather than a religious thing - many of them don't go to temple (well maybe once or twice a year) and don't seem very religious, but still they consider themselves from the Jewish culture and the family Hannukah get-togethers, menoras, special foods, etc., are very important to them. I'd be more than happy to honor an African American's wish to celebrate Kwanzaa. My Chinese friend makes a big deal about Chinese New Year and I'm right there with her (eating too many Moon Cakes LOL...)
 
Nancy,
I couldn't agree with you more. Perhaps we are more sensitive to it because we're here in New York, where it is multi-cultural (which, I too, just love). I, frankly, have never understood why religious people simply can't accept that not everyone thinks the way they do, and that THEY sometimes need to accomodate that. If you celebrate the religious aspect of the holiday season - congratulations. Have at it. Enjoy it. But I don't - so don't send me cards with religious themes on them. If you know me, you'll know it's not appropriate. If you don't know me, then you're being presumptuous.
Not being willing to say anything other than Merry Christmas - the issue isn't the person it's being said to - that's on the person doing the saying. It shows their insensitivity. And again, that's not about being PC - it's about simply being polite and inclusive. As someone else said on the other post - It's not all about you.
 
I think it's a wonderful thing to teach our kids about different cultures and religions. I live in the San Francisco area and we are also very culturally diverse. Not only do our kids learn about Christmas, Hanuaka and Kawnzaa, but Ramadan and Diwali as well. Earlier in the year they celebrate the Chinese New Year.

As many of you know (or can tell by looking at my avatar) my DH is Indian. We send Christmas cards to all of our Indian relatives overseas every year. Our friends are an interesting mix of cultures and religions. We get invited to Diwali parties where I get to wear a sari and eat fabulous Indian food. We, in turn, have a Christmas Eve party where all of our friends - Indian, anglo and others - get together, bring appetizers and enjoy the magic of Christmas. Many of our Indian friends celebrate Christmas - not the religious aspect, but the holiday. When I asked them about it, they said, "It's a tough enough world out there. When given the chance to celebrate - no matter what the occasion - always do it." I love that attitude.

I am not particulary religious as in the fact that I follow one religion. I don't get upset when I get a religious card. I simply think of those as people sharing their beliefs with me. They are not trying to convert me, or telling me I am wrong, they simply wish to celebrate the more religious aspect of Christmas. Why should I be offended by that? I'm just thrilled that they remembered me and thought enough of me to send a card.
 
Ok - but then it IS all about PC - sorry to disagree. Because if what many are saying is accurate, then Christmas and Hannukah have shifted away from (or maybe never were so much about) religious acknowlegements but are really more culturally driven - which is why my children are being taught to include Kwanzaa separately (BTW where I live I bet no more than 1% of my community celebrates Kwanzaa). So if that is the case, and let's say our other ethnic American cultures create celebrations of their heritage and culture to be held at this time of year, then we must include them all. IE Happy Latino culture day and Happy Irish culture day and Happy Slovenian culture day and Happy French culture day (all of which will have their own unique names steeped in cultural roots). And in that case in order to avoid all the massive confusion of which cards to buy and send, and what to say so as not to offend, we really should simply say "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings." Well at least now it makes a bit more sense to me!

Lorrie

Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
 
Nance, I don't see anything contradictory in my post. The vast population of the US is overwhelmingly Christian. Christmas is a Christian holiday. It has not become un-PC --it was never PC to begin with. It is simply the time of year that Christians commemorate the birth of Christ. This is what it has always been until recent years when secularists have tried to commandeer Christmas and turn it into a generic, catchall kind of a holiday. The same is true with Hanukkah. And yes, I have many Jewish friends and they send me Hanukkah cards, much to my delight.

Let me make another point if I may. I don't mind when my secular friends send me a generic card. The question I have is why does it bother so many people if I want to send a Christmas card. You know--the Old Melting Pot!

As a Christian, this is a time of year when I reflect on my friendships and the people I care about. I celebrate Christmas so I send Christmas cards. Until recently I don't recall ever having to explain why or apologize for it. It's not an easy thing, by the way, to find Christmas cards that are both pretty and have a religious message. It would seem that Christians are the only ones not allowed to have their day.

Just editing so you know that no disrespect is intended. Christianity is all about who I am and I do take it seriously. I think that's what secular people can't comprehend. Christmas is very important to believers. Christ is my Lord and Savior.

:)
 
> Perhaps we are more sensitive
>to it because we're here in New York, where it is
>multi-cultural (which, I too, just love).

This is interesting to me....I loved the multicculturalism of NY as well (lived there 8 years or so) and I would say that people were more relaxed and less sensitive about the PC thing, simply because rubbing up against so many races/creeds/colors on a daily basis teaches people that most people aren't out to offend with the things they say or do. Does that make sense?

Sparrow

My garden is filled with papayas and mangos
My life is a mixture of reggaes and tangos
Taste for the good life, I can live it no other way
- Jimmy Buffett
 
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