Slow and heavy lifting

S

Stacy

Cathlete
For anyone looking to add some variety to their workouts, I definitely recommend Tracie Long's Stronger Longer Volumes 1 & 2 for slower, heavier lifting with some short cardio bursts. The workouts were surprisingly, much harder than they looked in the previews! Tracie used 15's for most of the moves and I only used 10's. I typically use slightly less weight than Cathe for reference. Mary is now selling these at totalfitnessdvds
 
MomInVT said:
Ooh, thanks for the tip! Currently doing Cathe's S&H and just loving it.
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Do you think S&H is good only for hard gainers, if one is not looking to put on lots of muscle at this point? I admit I haven't tried the series out of a bit of fear, probably a stupid fear I admit, of bulking up considerably in the upper body. I have considerable fat to lose in the arms, and don't want them getting much bigger with muscle before I can strip this fat off some more. And because the series is...slow and heavy! I'm used to Gym Style, Pure Strength, the total-body workouts...stuff with a faster pace. I was afraid I'd find it boring.

However, S&H appeals to me on the other hand due to the fact that it would increase strength, which of course is always needed. I imagine in the long run this series would increase energy levels, due to the muscle gain. It just seems like a lot of sets and reps for the small muscle groups like biceps and triceps, though. I am an endomorph. I don't know your body type, but your comment about S&H piqued my interest. :D (I know you can only give an opinion, not scientific evidence. Sometimes anecdotal evidence is best, though!) :)
 
TurquoiseEyes said:
Do you think S&H is good only for hard gainers, if one is not looking to put on lots of muscle at this point? I admit I haven't tried the series out of a bit of fear, probably a stupid fear I admit, of bulking up considerably in the upper body. I have considerable fat to lose in the arms, and don't want them getting much bigger with muscle before I can strip this fat off some more. And because the series is...slow and heavy! I'm used to Gym Style, Pure Strength, the total-body workouts...stuff with a faster pace. I was afraid I'd find it boring.

However, S&H appeals to me on the other hand due to the fact that it would increase strength, which of course is always needed. I imagine in the long run this series would increase energy levels, due to the muscle gain. It just seems like a lot of sets and reps for the small muscle groups like biceps and triceps, though. I am an endomorph. I don't know your body type, but your comment about S&H piqued my interest. :D (I know you can only give an opinion, not scientific evidence. Sometimes anecdotal evidence is best, though!) :)
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Hi TurquoiseEyes,
I love S&H, and definitely don't find it boring. I say, give it a try!
In terms of gains/fat loss... as you said, everyone's different but... my upper body always looks better if I gain muscle, even if I don't lose fat. And I'm not an endomorph, but I'm also not a string bean body type.
Also, I think you're likely to swap muscle for fat if you gain muscle... and perhaps that's easier than losing fat and then gaining muscle? I don't know. I'm not trying to make assumptions about how your body works -- just throwin' ideas around here. Maybe others can chime in.
I just finished the first two weeks of this rotation (which would allow you to go through all the S&H segments):
http://cathe.com/forum/threads/another-strength-rotation.236115/
Week 1 is killer, but super fun! I skipped cardio or subbed for my own. I also added at least one day of leg work in there -- even if only 30 mins (e.g., S&H Legs).
The weight work in week 1 is ~40 mins daily, so I'd add a short HiiT or X10 or yoga if I felt like it. Weight work in week 2 is ~17 mins, so I'd often add a 40-45 min Cathe Live cardio. I had lots of fun and I'm seeing more upper body definition after only 2 weeks. And I already lift a lot. And I didn't lose fat.
Does that help? If you want my (sweeping, non-individualized) opinion... don't fear ze pump! If you build muscle, you'll get a great shape to your body, rev your metabolism, and the fat will come off over time (assuming sensible nutrition).
In any case, if you just want to try the three S&H workouts, it's not like your body is going to change in any fundamental way from 3 workouts. At most your muscles might retain some water/glycogen/magic potion/whatever it is.
Roz
 
MomInVT said:
Hi TurquoiseEyes,
I love S&H, and definitely don't find it boring. I say, give it a try!
In terms of gains/fat loss... as you said, everyone's different but... my upper body always looks better if I gain muscle, even if I don't lose fat. And I'm not an endomorph, but I'm also not a string bean body type.
Also, I think you're likely to swap muscle for fat if you gain muscle... and perhaps that's easier than losing fat and then gaining muscle? I don't know. I'm not trying to make assumptions about how your body works -- just throwin' ideas around here. Maybe others can chime in.
I just finished the first two weeks of this rotation (which would allow you to go through all the S&H segments):
http://cathe.com/forum/threads/another-strength-rotation.236115/
Week 1 is killer, but super fun! I skipped cardio or subbed for my own. I also added at least one day of leg work in there -- even if only 30 mins (e.g., S&H Legs).
The weight work in week 1 is ~40 mins daily, so I'd add a short HiiT or X10 or yoga if I felt like it. Weight work in week 2 is ~17 mins, so I'd often add a 40-45 min Cathe Live cardio. I had lots of fun and I'm seeing more upper body definition after only 2 weeks. And I already lift a lot. And I didn't lose fat.
Does that help? If you want my (sweeping, non-individualized) opinion... don't fear ze pump! If you build muscle, you'll get a great shape to your body, rev your metabolism, and the fat will come off over time (assuming sensible nutrition).
In any case, if you just want to try the three S&H workouts, it's not like your body is going to change in any fundamental way from 3 workouts. At most your muscles might retain some water/glycogen/magic potion/whatever it is.
Roz
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Yes, this was a huge help! Thank you so much. I guess I have a complex about my arms LOL. My shoulders are broad (although not due to fat at this point) and my arms are big (unfortunately, this IS due to fat- bad genes + lots of lazy years!) My mother isn't generally very critical of me or of other women's bodies in general, but she's Old Southern and doesn't believe in wearing tank tops or cap sleeves unless one has perfect upper arms. Which she is quick to remind me, we do not possess in our family, me especially. Mine have a long way to go, I admit, even with months of serious training...I've gotten a bit smaller and more toned everywhere else lately, but my darn arm girth keeps me from being able to wear smaller shirt sizes without them bulging out a bit. My mom doesn't get that sometimes with weight-training, one gets larger before they get smaller for awhile! I love tank tops and cap-sleeved shirts, and they're much more easier to fit since I don't have to size them to my arms, but still feel self-conscious about wearing them in public. :( I can see SO much more muscular definition all over my body than even just a couple of months ago, confirmed by taking photos...but that fat layer is stubborn, especially in my upper arms. However, I see your point. Maybe a shock to the muscles and just putting more muscle on in general will help zap some of that fat? I won't know til I try it for a wee bit, right?

I'm trying to improve my push-ups and planks...You sound very, very advanced (much more than me), but are you noticing strength gains and/or ability to do any new moves requiring lots of strength with doing this rotation, beyond your muscular definition getting better? Sorry to keep asking questions, but you're very knowledgeable. Everyone is incredibly helpful and I don't want to take advantage of that, but y'all are so smart! :)

I digress and I'm yakking when you probably wish I'd hush! Anyway, I'm going to try this rotation in full that you kindly linked for me here starting next week. I have to stop being a big baby, suck it up and just follow rotations to the letter instead of my usual "reach for whatever I want that day" method. I also need to take my own advice that I always give to others about seeing this journey as a marathon and not a sprint, ignore my mother's little remarks like "You're not wearing that tank top without a jacket over it, are you?", and end my freaking worrying about any short-term or even long-term "bulkiness". I want to put on some muscle for bathing suit season, anyway! :)

Thank you for taking time to answer me so promptly, thoroughly, and kindly. I appreciate it a lot, and I love these forums! :D

-Lizzie
 
Hi Lizzie,
I know there are plenty of people in the wide world who would disagree with me, but if I were you, I'd probably focus my upper body work on heavy lifting. Gaining muscle will shape your arms (and, holding calories constant, you'll lose fat there, too, since muscle is darn hungry! ;) )

And hey, no shame in the fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants rotation! Though ultimately following a program isn't a bad idea. Having said that, life's too short to do workouts you don't feel like doing. Have you done STS?

Honestly, I don't know about strength gains in this rotation -- it's only been two weeks and I haven't repeated any workout once, so I've had no opportunity to observe strength gains (since rep range, rests, yadda yadda are always changing). Now, I've definitely developed skills over time via heavy lifting. I can do two unassisted pullups (woo woo!) and way more pushups than I ever could before (though I'm invariably humbled by GS Chest -- ha!).

I'm actually just about to start a new strength training program where I'll be lifting heavier than ever with lower reps -- psyched to see where that takes me in terms of strength gains!

Hope you enjoy the one-body-part-per-day lifting rotation if you decide it's for you. Keep me posted! Sounds like you're on the road to success. Just keep being your awesome ninja self! :D

And sorry to hear about your mom's negative comments. That's tough. Just remember that your body is beautiful THE WAY IT IS! Rock those tanks without apology. And if you do some heavy lifting, you can sneak some quality flexing moments in the bathroom mirror! ;)

Be well,
Roz

Oh and a P.S. (with am embedded P.S.), I read this awesome article on Girls Gone Strong last week, but my favorite quote is this:
"P.S. With strength training, you will gain muscle. “Toned” and “Gainz” mean the same thing."
 
MomInVT said:
Hi Lizzie,
I know there are plenty of people in the wide world who would disagree with me, but if I were you, I'd probably focus my upper body work on heavy lifting. Gaining muscle will shape your arms (and, holding calories constant, you'll lose fat there, too, since muscle is darn hungry! ;) )

And hey, no shame in the fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants rotation! Though ultimately following a program isn't a bad idea. Having said that, life's too short to do workouts you don't feel like doing. Have you done STS?

Honestly, I don't know about strength gains in this rotation -- it's only been two weeks and I haven't repeated any workout once, so I've had no opportunity to observe strength gains (since rep range, rests, yadda yadda are always changing). Now, I've definitely developed skills over time via heavy lifting. I can do two unassisted pullups (woo woo!) and way more pushups than I ever could before (though I'm invariably humbled by GS Chest -- ha!).

I'm actually just about to start a new strength training program where I'll be lifting heavier than ever with lower reps -- psyched to see where that takes me in terms of strength gains!

Hope you enjoy the one-body-part-per-day lifting rotation if you decide it's for you. Keep me posted! Sounds like you're on the road to success. Just keep being your awesome ninja self! :D

And sorry to hear about your mom's negative comments. That's tough. Just remember that your body is beautiful THE WAY IT IS! Rock those tanks without apology. And if you do some heavy lifting, you can sneak some quality flexing moments in the bathroom mirror! ;)

Be well,
Roz

Oh and a P.S. (with am embedded P.S.), I read this awesome article on Girls Gone Strong last week, but my favorite quote is this:
"P.S. With strength training, you will gain muscle. “Toned” and “Gainz” mean the same thing."
Click to expand...

No, I haven't done STS. I know some people say they just adored it and it transformed their fitness level. A few people on VideoFitness disliked it, but that alone wouldn't keep me from trying it. :) I take it you've done STS? What were your results? (If you already shared them elsewhere, let me know...I'll check out your post on it.) I just know myself. With my anti-rotation brain, I have never wanted to invest in STS, partially because of the cost. But I also don't want to feel guilty, having invested a fair sum of money all at once, if I end up not liking/using it. And I know myself. If I thought I had to stick with one particular rotation for 90 days, no matter how beautifully designed and perfect it was for my body, I'd feel instant - however ridiculous - rebellion, LOL. It's not an admirable trait, and it doesn't stop with exercise DVD rotations. I used to try to follow the ones The FIRM put out, back when I did them alone. Then within a few days I wouldn't feel like doing the tape assigned to me that day, and I'd blow off the whole thing.

I know some people love STS. And heaven knows that I love an excuse to buy more exercise equipment and/or DVDs, but STS seems to take so much equipment. My workout stuff is confined to my bedroom, which is already crammed with equipment. (My bedroom also serves as my home office. Loads of fun trying to find space for everything...) Maybe it is because I started with The FIRM and did that exclusively for years, but I also do not like rest periods during workouts. If there was ever a FIRM workout that had rests in it, I've never done it...And I've heard STS has a lot of them. Using STS one of those distant, "maybe someday when I have more money/fitness/space" things. Probably a dumb mentality, but it's where I'm at currently with STS. :)
 
TurquoiseEyes said:
No, I haven't done STS. I know some people say they just adored it and it transformed their fitness level. A few people on VideoFitness disliked it, but that alone wouldn't keep me from trying it. :) I take it you've done STS? What were your results? (If you already shared them elsewhere, let me know...I'll check out your post on it.) I just know myself. With my anti-rotation brain, I have never wanted to invest in STS, partially because of the cost. But I also don't want to feel guilty, having invested a fair sum of money all at once, if I end up not liking/using it. And I know myself. If I thought I had to stick with one particular rotation for 90 days, no matter how beautifully designed and perfect it was for my body, I'd feel instant - however ridiculous - rebellion, LOL. It's not an admirable trait, and it doesn't stop with exercise DVD rotations. I used to try to follow the ones The FIRM put out, back when I did them alone. Then within a few days I wouldn't feel like doing the tape assigned to me that day, and I'd blow off the whole thing.

I know some people love STS. And heaven knows that I love an excuse to buy more exercise equipment and/or DVDs, but STS seems to take so much equipment. My workout stuff is confined to my bedroom, which is already crammed with equipment. (My bedroom also serves as my home office. Loads of fun trying to find space for everything...) Maybe it is because I started with The FIRM and did that exclusively for years, but I also do not like rest periods during workouts. If there was ever a FIRM workout that had rests in it, I've never done it...And I've heard STS has a lot of them. Using STS one of those distant, "maybe someday when I have more money/fitness/space" things. Probably a dumb mentality, but it's where I'm at currently with STS. :)
Click to expand...
Do you not have On Demand? That's why I thought you had access to STS.
No, I totally get the rotation aversion. I'll spend days planning out the next few months, then two weeks in, I'll cry to the heavens, 'why are you forcing me to follow this plan?! I just want to do Rockout Knockout today!' Then I remember that no one's forcing me to do it. But I feel kind of guilted/compelled by no one but myself to finish it out.
If you do have STS, you could sort of 'preview' it and try a week of an STS+RWH or STS+LIS or STS+XTrain rotation. Just to get the feel of it. (I have personally verified -- though I wasn't previously certain -- that you can do STS workouts here -- no signing up for 3 months of it -- without spontaneous combustion or other such punishment/inevitabilities.) Or if you're feeling really saucy, you could try Meso 2 -- at whatever pace you like (i.e., complete a 'week' of it -- 3 workouts -- over 5 days or over 2 weeks).
Results? Well, I did get '5% stronger' in Meso 3. That was cool. But the rests in that one are long -- I don't suggest starting there. I've tried throwing some cardio into those rests, which is nice. But I suggest getting your feet wet w/ Mesos 1 and/or 2.
I'm sure I added some muscle -- I just don't really specifically remember. Sorry. :oops:
Hope that helps -- let me know what you decide to do!
Roz
 
MomInVT said:
Do you not have On Demand? That's why I thought you had access to STS.
No, I totally get the rotation aversion. I'll spend days planning out the next few months, then two weeks in, I'll cry to the heavens, 'why are you forcing me to follow this plan?! I just want to do Rockout Knockout today!' Then I remember that no one's forcing me to do it. But I feel kind of guilted/compelled by no one but myself to finish it out.
If you do have STS, you could sort of 'preview' it and try a week of an STS+RWH or STS+LIS or STS+XTrain rotation. Just to get the feel of it. (I have personally verified -- though I wasn't previously certain -- that you can do STS workouts here -- no signing up for 3 months of it -- without spontaneous combustion or other such punishment/inevitabilities.) Or if you're feeling really saucy, you could try Meso 2 -- at whatever pace you like (i.e., complete a 'week' of it -- 3 workouts -- over 5 days or over 2 weeks).
Results? Well, I did get '5% stronger' in Meso 3. That was cool. But the rests in that one are long -- I don't suggest starting there. I've tried throwing some cardio into those rests, which is nice. But I suggest getting your feet wet w/ Mesos 1 and/or 2.
I'm sure I added some muscle -- I just don't really specifically remember. Sorry. :oops:
Hope that helps -- let me know what you decide to do!
Roz
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Yeah, I have On Demand. Sorry, I wasn't being clear what I meant about spending more money. The DVDs wouldn't be an issue because of On Demand (yay!), although sometimes that service can have its hiccups due to my lovely WiFi provider. But I meant spending more money on the equipment. Because I'm used to usually doing total body workouts with more reps (excluding Pure Strength or Gym Style, which still don't seem too low-rep to me), I don't have a lot of heavier dumbbells yet, meaning heavier than 25 lb sets. They get expensive quickly, it seems. I think STS requires that pull-up bar/rack thing used in Turbo Barre, as well? I can and do substitute a dining room chair in for the Turbo Barre workout. I can't really think of what I could substitute in my house already for a pull-up bar or power rack, though. (I can't install a pull-up bar because I'm a renter- no permanent screws in doors allowed.) Plus I just bought a few new things to up the ante on my Cathe workouts, including a stability ball, one of those SPRI rubber band things that are like a Firewalker band, and a new Dyna-Band. If I bought anything else, my wallet might reach up and slap me! :D

LOL, spontaneous combustion! You make a very good point. I don't know why I was being all-or-nothing over it. I could try a week of it, or even just a workout or two. Sometimes it takes someone pointing out that I'm self-creating a barrier out of commitment no one's forcing me to make!
 
Hi Lizzie,
TurquoiseEyes said:
I don't have a lot of heavier dumbbells yet, meaning heavier than 25 lb sets. They get expensive quickly, it seems.
Click to expand...
Do you have a barbell? If so, you can purchase 'empty' adjustable dumbbell handles that you can load your barbell plates onto. I think they're ~$6 a pop at my local Walmart (as much as I hate many of Walmart's practices, they do have an extensive and well-priced fitness section :rolleyes:).
Do you have resistance tubing? Cedie demos a pull-up/chin-up variation using tubing strung through a hook high up on the wall. I don't have a hook, so I just used one of the metal doodads that attach my banister to the wall.
In terms of having a rack for chest presses... it kinda depends on how heavy you're going to go. I think I probably could have safely hoisted my BB into position for Meso 2 (I think Meso 1 uses DBs, anyways?), probably not Meso 3. But sounds like you can use tables/chairs/whatever for that.

Oh, and with yard sale season upon is, it's worth noting that you can often find very cheap workout equipment at yard sales. Cheaper than craigslist or thrift stores. People just want to get rid of old crap crowding their basement. I got my barbell at a yard sale. It was ~$25 for a bar and ~250 lbs in plates, all in totally serviceable condition. No joke. The woman was begging me to take all the plates. 'Just get 'em outta here before my husband gets back! I don't want to carry them back down to the basement!' ;)
Weight benches are common items. You can often look at upcoming sales on craigslist and they'll say what they're selling, either a category ('fitness gear') or specific items (usually only larger things are itemized). You can generally email the sale-holder and ask for specifics.
TurquoiseEyes said:
Sometimes it takes someone pointing out that I'm self-creating a barrier out of commitment no one's forcing me to make!
Click to expand...
Haha I hear ya -- happens to me all the time! :D
Roz
 
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MomInVT said:
Hi Lizzie,

Do you have a barbell? If so, you can purchase 'empty' adjustable dumbbell handles that you can load your barbell plates onto. I think they're ~$6 a pop at my local Walmart (as much as I hate many of Walmart's practices, they do have an extensive and well-priced fitness section :rolleyes:).
Do you have resistance tubing? Cedie demos a pull-up/chin-up variation using tubing strung through a hook high up on the wall. I don't have a hook, so I just used one of the metal doodads that attach my banister to the wall.
In terms of having a rack for chest presses... it kinda depends on how heavy you're going to go. I think I probably could have safely hoisted my BB into position for Meso 2 (I think Meso 1 uses DBs, anyways?), probably not Meso 3. But sounds like you can use tables/chairs/whatever for that.

Oh, and with yard sale season upon is, it's worth noting that you can often find very cheap workout equipment at yard sales. Cheaper than craigslist or thrift stores. People just want to get rid of old crap crowding their basement. I got my barbell at a yard sale. It was ~$25 for a bar and ~250 lbs in plates, all in totally serviceable condition. No joke. The woman was begging me to take all the plates. 'Just get 'em outta here before my husband gets back! I don't want to carry them back down to the basement!' ;)
Weight benches are common items. You can often look at upcoming sales on craigslist and they'll say what they're selling, either a category ('fitness gear') or specific items (usually only larger things are itemized). You can generally email the sale-holder and ask for specifics.

Haha I hear ya -- happens to me all the time! :D
Roz
Click to expand...

Sorry I didn't respond back to this- I thought I had!

I can't bring myself to shop at WalMart. Their labor practices alone...grrrr. I just can't do that, no matter how much money it would save me. :(

Hanging head in shame, I don't own a barbell yet. I've always liked body bars better because of their even weight distribution and thorough padding. When I only did The FIRM, I never needed to go all that heavy with weights (never beyond a 25 lb. dumbbell or 20 lb. body bar), that strategy worked fine. Now that I'm working out almost exclusively with Cathe's stuff, I know I'll have to get a barbell and some plate weights- and soon. I'm making do with dumbbells for now on heavier exercises, or I position a Dyna-Band around my heaviest body bar in the way Cathe demonstrates to add extra resistance that way. That's not going to suffice forever, though. Fortunately (?) my higher body weight provides plenty of "built-in barbell" for my standing lower body exercises as of right now. ;) I'm surprised how well the Dyna-Band under-the-step strategy works for adding difficulty to high-step work, too...Cathe's so inventive! :D

I will definitely check out craigslist and maybe some garage sales. Thank you for letting me know about the fitness gear category, because I've actually never used craigslist before. We don't have a ton of garage sales in my area, but sometimes at my college people leave notes up on the bulletin board giving stuff away cheap or free. Maybe I'll get lucky and see someone selling a barbell set there!
 
I would like to know which type of barbell you folks would recommend for a first time barbell user (like the length etc)? I would like to get something where I do not have to go back in a few months and purchase something else. (still have to figure out where I'll keep this one! lol).
I've bought nearly every piece of fitness apparatus I own 2nd hand or at liquidators and I will probably be doing the same thing with this barbell purchase. I just like to understand what is best to be looking for.
Also, what's the deal with these tricep bars?
This barbell seems a bit steep for my budget. But, honestly, will I get it cheaper 2nd hand or is it a good price? Yes, I am that ignorant about the pricing of these things. ; )
http://www.amazon.ca/Fitness-Depot-...F8&qid=1434607769&sr=8-8&keywords=olympic+bar

Thanks!!
 
I was very fortunate, I found someone that was tired of working out in his garage, and was joining a gym. (go figure) He was selling everything. I basically bought a whole gym, for an excellent price. Two olympic bars, curl bar, preacher bench, plates. etc. Now that it is summer, check for yard sales, Craigs List. Play It Again Sports. (these stores are not every where) There is a website in my area, that sells everything imaginable. You might be able to find something, a little used, but a great price, on a website. I love my olympic bars, they are 45 lbs. and 7 ft. long. But, they will last forever, (don't think I will ever lift more than they can handle.)
 
I have a 1" bar - and would like to graduate to an Olympic bar eventually (I'd need to buy a load of new plates as well, though). The thing I do love is my EZCurl bar - more comfortable for my shoulders on things like bench presses and overhead presses.
 
About 11years ago I found a set of power blocks for sale on eBay. We won the auction. My wife's name for eBay was squeakton...when the dust settled we beat out deadlifter and gorilla man!!! I wonder what they thought about that! When we went to St. Louis to pick them up, the couple was moving to an apartment and she threw in their Olympic set for free!!! She said they were joining a gym because they had no room to use the set ..GREAT deal for ME!!
 
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