Sicko

LauraMax

Cathlete
I watched this over the weekend. OMG! Such sad stories out there.......I know Michael Moore is slanted & sort of distorts stuff to serve his agenda, but my position has always been even if half of what he says is true we're in big trouble.

Anyway, the documentary scared the daylights out of me. That we can work most of our lives, do our best to save $$ & plan for retirement, & one serious illness will have you moving in w/your kids or, in my case, probably a state funded nursing home. And that whole thing w/Guantanamo Bay--so freaky!

Anyone else see? Any other thoughts?
 
This one is actually closer to the truth than we care to admit. He even had a lot of Republicans supporting him on this film. Funny, how we have an endless money pit for bomb-making and wars but not enough for education and health care. Scary.
 
It was so sad watching this. I was actually crying seeing what some of these people have to go through - which fingertip can I afford to have taken off?, having to sell your house and move back in with the kids. I agree we should take care of our people here instead of sending our money to the rest of the world.

Marcy
 
And the health care people in other countries receive is really quite astounding! They seem to think it's no big deal, it's what they deserve (which it is), but it definitely put me off to see them laughing at the US. This is not a laughing matter! x(
 
I've heard, tho, that there is a long wait in other countries who get free healthcare for things that they need done. If I find out I have cancer, I want something done now. Waiting could be the difference between life and death.
 
Stacey, you should watch this. One of his points was that this rumored wait is a myth. Emergency procedures are available immediately.

But you do have to wait for elective surgery.
 
I don't know about the long wait in other countries, I heard in Canada there is often a long wait to see a specialist.

I am from Germany, when you work a percentage of your salary is taken out for health insurance, someone with no income or below a certain income, or retirees will be provided free or low-cost health insurance through the government that has the same coverage. There is no wait, you just go to the doctor and they bill the insurance directly, EVERYONE is covered by insurance and I think it is much better because people can go to see a doctor right away instead of waiting because they don't have the money to see a doc, or pay for medication and things get much worse.

It is similar in most other countries in Europe.

I think it is a disgrace for a country like the United States to have millions of children uninsured or underinsured!!! To have people lose everything they have because of medical bills. Plus the fact, if you don't have insurance you pay 2 to 3 times the amount that hospitals and doctors charge insurances!!

I don't know WTH they can't fix it and come up with a reasonable plan to provide health coverage for everyone.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_205.gif

I haven't seen Sicko yet, I am sure I will it is on Pay per View, but I know I will get really agitated when I watch it.
 
I sell on ebay and I had a customer in Canada whose mother had cancer. I don't know if she had to wait for treatment but in order to get it she had to get on a plane and travel far away from her home. I think I'd have to do a lot of research and talk to many different people before I made up my mind on this one. I just don't know.
 
>Stacey, you should watch this. One of his points was that
>this rumored wait is a myth. Emergency procedures are
>available immediately.
>
>But you do have to wait for elective surgery.

Not a rumor. I had a good friend get in a severe accident in Canada. She could not wait to get back here to better care.
 
I think a big problem here in the US is lawsuits. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to sue but there needs to be a cap on what they can get. My DH knows a man who got out of medicine because his malpractice insurance was so much. I don't know how much he paid but it was well over $100,000 a year. This helps out healthcare costs go way up making everything more expensive. I wish our country could do something about all of this. My DH could retire now if he wanted but we couldn't afford the health insurance which we would have to pay out of our own pocket. (About $800 a month). It's scary.
 
I saw the movie and think Michael Moore has some points that can't be argued with. I also think those who argue vehemently for no state provided healthcare are definitely not people who have been without it. I would say a longer wait for care is better than no care at all.

I work at a international company and my colleagues in Canada and the UK are just amazed that the US allows so many of its citizens to go without care.

KIM
 
My father discovered he had cancer in his intestine (sp?) back in January. He lives in North Africa, he made a call to a French hospital, scheduled an appoitment and had his cancer removed in two weeks. It took that long because of all the test he had to do again to make sure he had cancer. His total bill was $10,000 (3 weeks in hospital)= 2days in hospital and delivery of DD here in the US.
This was not his first surgery, he had a heart surgery and a very complicated liver surgery. Both times he called the hospital and scheduled an appointment ASAP, on top of that the surgeon who did the cancer surgery charged him only half of the amount he normally charges, and for the other two he was charged half of the total (surgeon+ hospital) because my father is a surgeon himself. It would have never happened here in the US, collegue or not.
 
Not to pick a fight here or a start a flaming war, but medical malpractice lawsuits are NOT what drives up health care cost. In fact, numerous independent studies have been done on this very subject and medical malpractice payouts accounts for 0.55 % to 1 % (depending on the study) of the total health care cost.

If you look at examples like California, it has the most draconian limits on the rights of patients in medical malpractice, there is a cap of $ 250,000 on non-economic damages. Despite of that the average premium for malpractice insurance is $ 35,000 (obviously higher for high-risk medical fields like OB/GYN, neurosurgeons, etc), more than 8 % higher than in states with no cap. In fact, insurance premiums for doctors increased by 190 % over the 12-year period following the cap implementation and health care cost increased by 343 %. Hmmmh, interesting!

I think this is a very sue-happy society and there are lawsuits that make me cringe. However, when you look at how many frivilous law suits actually move forward, it is a miniscule amount but of course those law suits get dragged into the media and tort reform proponents have a hayday with it.

I can tell you from first-hand experience that trying to bring a law suit against a medical professional is an uphill battle! In 2003 my then dentist while doing dental work drilled a hole into my sinus cavity. Of course, I had no clue and was wondering why in the following year my health went downhill with infections, excrutianing migrane headaches, compromised immune system, etc. 15 months and a gazillion tests (nothing was found by any medical doctor) later, finally another dentist who had asked for my file and my previous x-rays (taken before the initial treatment and 2 weeks after) found that not only was the treatment completely unnecessary but there was no hole in my sinuses before the treatment and 14 days after there was one. Two dental experts looked at the records and x-rays and said obvious malpractice.

Sounds like a pretty clear cut case, right? Not so fast! There is a statute of limitations of 12 months from the original treatment, compliments of President Bush, sometimes this will get overturned when it is not detected in those 12 months. My lawyer wanted to take the case but it was nixed by the senior partners in his firm who said it is an uphill battle and the chances are 30/70 to prevail.

I ended up paying $ 27,000 in medical and dental bills out of pocket, my insurance company shelled out $ 57,000 to get this jerk dentist's screw up fixed. It is not much of a consolation that that dentist was sued by another patient 2 years later and his license was suspended for doing exactly the same to several other patients.

In my opinion what is driving up the health care cost is the unparalled greed of insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry. When you look at who is doing best financially even in hard times, it's always the same.

Why is it, that the cost of the SAME drug is 3 to 5 times higher in the US than in other countries? Whereas advertising of prescription drugs to the general public is not allowed in other countries, US Drug Companies spend billions of $$ in marketing, ads in magazines and TV commercials. Turn on the TV, look in magazines, every second commercial or ad is for another drug. WTH do they need to market to the general public? Well, because they know it works.

I have heard from numerous doctors that patients will come into their office, basically already self-diagnosed themselves and ask for a specific drug. I understand that many doctors are between a rock and a hard place, they want to give the best care possible but they also know that patients will just leave and go to the next doctor who WILL prescribe the drug that the patients ask for. And doctors are not only there to help, they also run a business.

We are so brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry that we think we need a pill for EVERYTHING. People want to get a "quick fix" and have a blind believe in the effectiveness of any given drug, whereas a lot of conditions could be taken care of, if they would just stop eating junk and started exercising, or quit smoking or drinking. Don't get me wrong, there are cases where drugs save people's lives but I think billions and billions of $$ are spent in overprescription of drugs which in turn cause other side effects that then have to be treated with different and more drugs.

I don't know how many times I have heard from people with kids who bring them into the doctor's office asking for an antibiotic and they only have a cold. And I don't know how many times I went with my kids to a doctor and was routinely prescribed an antibiotic "just in case". Just in case, WTH???? You don't give an antibiotic just as a precaution. There is a reason why now there are strains of bacteria that have become immune to antibiotics, resulting in higher and higher health care cost.

New drugs are rushed through the FDA approval process just to later find out, geeh, it either kills people or has serious side effects and health risks that result in enourmous additional health care cost.

And all of that (plus some other reasons), my friends, is the reason for the explosion of health care cost. Medical malpractice lawsuits are just a drop in bucket compared to everything else.

Okay, off my soapbox now. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_205.gif
 
As a Canadian who works in the healthcare field, I think our system is great. Occasionally there is a wait for certain items but not to the extent that the media makes it out to be. I work in a surgical/burns area and have never seen care compromised because of a wait. Sometimes an elective surgery is bumped for example if you were to have a carpal tunnel release done and there were 3 new burn patients of course you're elective carpal tunnel surgery would be rescheduled for a day or two later. The priorites get seen as needed.

As for the person who mentioned that someone had to fly to another location for care, have a look at a map of Canada there are extremely rural areas that are very very remote. Many areas of the province that I live in are accessible only by plane and during the winter months these small planes can often be cancelled. Our hospital services Nunvaut which is populated by the Inuit and extremely isolated and sometimes they do not make it down south for a few days. Many communites are only serviced by snowmobile. Kim
 
I finally came out of lurkdom for this topic. I lived in Italy for almost 20 years and was very happy with the healthcare system there. Although I never had any serious illness myself, I never had to wait for basic services. My sister did have a serious illness and was in the hospital for over a month. At the time she was an unemployed punk rocker. She got excellent care and her bill was zero. I doubt she would have got the same treatment here. Also I never had to stay in a job that I hated just for the insurance. I don't know anyone who has experienced both systems (ours and those of all other developed nations) who would choose ours. I think the only people happy with our healthcare system are the ceo's of the insurance companies with their multimillion dollar bonuses.
 
Okie Dokie, I can't help myself. I have seen Sicko and I am absolutely 100% appalled at healthcare in the US. This is a very divided topic even in my own home. My DH and one of my DS's are against Universal Helath care. In my opinion the propaganda we are fed is unreal. My own DH is another one who wants to believe that in Canada and European countries people are waiting months for sub standard health care. Come on, the money spent here to spread this type of information is self serving by many, including pharamaceutical companies and the HMO's. I only wish that same money could be spent to give our citizens medical care they deserve.

I have friends who are from England, and think our system is ridiculous. They say that they have never had a problem getting treatment of any kind and it's just a part of their lives to get free care, just like here we get free Policing, Fire Fighting and even universal Library system. You could even call those "Socialist" systems. Imagine that, right here in the ol' US of A! We take those things for granted, just like other countries take medical care for granted. Actually, one of my friends' that now lives here plans that when she is pregnant she will stay in England to have her baby because she won't have to worry about cost since she still holds citizenship there. Pretty sad that she would have to do that.

Oh, and another friend of mine has friends who recently moved to Norway. They filled out some paperwork, and a month later they have free health care for themselves and their children. Just like that.

Even if you can't stand Micheal Moore, or you think he tends to exxaggerate, you MUST see this movie. If you rent it, make sure to watch all the bonus clips at the end. They are really interesting!! I agree with the above poster, even if half of what he says is true we are in big trouble. I however think way more than half is true. You only half is true. Only look around, look at yourself and imagine what will happen if you get seriously ill. Flying to another part of the country ( like in the example from Canada above) would be the least of your problem. Trying to get testing and the best treatment from your insurance company, that will be your battle. Especially when you are paying for insurance and you think you have no problems. Be afraid, be very afraid. Been there already... seen it first hand.

Oh, there's so much more to say... just please see the movie!!!!
 
I'll be watching Sicko in 10 minutes, just ordered it on Pay per View.

I just wanted to address the notion that some people think it is for one sub-standard health care in many European countries and also that it is "free".

First of all, it is NOT "free". If you work, a percentage of your salary is paid towards health insurance. The major difference is that the health insurance is not dependent on what your employer offers, there are several health insurances to chose from and the insurance stays with you, even when you switch jobs.

If you make more money, well, then you pay higher health insurance premiums, just like you pay higher taxes. Spouses and children are insured with the same coverage for free or a nominal fee.

If you don't work and have no significant income, or you are unemployed, or retired, your health insurance is provided by the government.

Health insurance there is mandatory and no one can be turned away because of "pre-existing" conditions.

Having lived in Europe for 30 years, I can honestly say that the health care there is superior to the health care here in the US, hands down. I had one child in Germany and one here, and it sure was a HUGE difference!

And for the record, no one there has to wait long to get coverage, testing done or medical care, you call the doctor's office and usually get an appointment within a few days, depending on how busy the doctor is. If you need to go to the hospital, you just go and get treated. It doesn't happen there that a patient needs to wait for approval of the insurance to have medical proceedures done, as it has happened to many people I know, especially with HMOs that they have to fight with their health care provider as to what is covered and what is not.

In fact in Germany, the doctor is the one who decides what is medically necessary and not an employee of the insurance company.

I totally agree that there is a lot of propaganda and misinformation in this country about "universal health care" and it's very sad. I hope something will be done soon to solve the health care problem here.

Gotta run, the movie starts!
 
Carola: I can't wait to hear what you think about the movie!!

BTW, one argument I hear all the time from my own DH is that if we had universal health care our taxes would go up... well, let's see now. We already pay thousands of dollars now for our HMO, which denied my own DS an MRI for a large lump on his leg... hmmmm.... among other denials and fights we have had. We pay taxes for police and Fire, no hassles there,just a given, right? ( BTW, my own DH just retired from the NYPD) And we wouldn't have to pay for private insurance. Oh, and paying into medicaid and medicare wouldn't be an issue. So, at best, we would be paying less taxes and ensuring that all our citizens would be covered for medical care, and worst, we might pay as much as we are now, and let's see, everyone would have medical care.

Not a difficult decision for me...

Okay Carola, I'm anxious to hear from you!!
 

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