R these 2 "weight" issues 1 coin?

C

claridge

Cathlete
Do you think that Anerexia and Obesisty are just two different sides of one coin, and should be BOTH treated medically the same?

We seem to treat Anerexsic people "better" in sociaty than we do Obese people.

I have NO problem with the government using my Taxs to help fund ANY treatment, medically, emotionaly, physically, so some poor anerexsic can get the best help available and quickly

BUT

we DO NOT help fund Weight Watches, or Jenny Craig etc, or any councelling needed or wanted for "over eaters" Its "user" pay for the Physiological help they may require, and the $$$$$$$ for stomack stabling is WAY out of their reach.

My DH (and he says this with NO unkindness or malice in his heart) thinks Obese people can help themselves when ever they want to, and as long as these people organize more and more "Big is Beautiful", "Big is Proud" groups, then they are oviously happy to stay as they are.

He is also sick to the back teeth of them whyning about requiring BIGGER airplane seats, theatre sets, McDonald seats etc.

When I see a Obese person in the street, my heart drops because they do not look HAPPY or CONTENT to me, and I do wonder, if the Government ALSO used some of our taxes towards offering the Obese Stomack Stabling (or what ever) for FREE, whether they would book themselves in tomorrow.

I know I proberly made everything sound too easy and simplictic for a wide world problem, but I have often wondered this.


Any thoughts/opionions anyone?

Marion

:)
 
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Hi Marion,

I do have thoughts on this subject, but the last time this discussion came up there was a lot of rather ugly arguing so will only say again that I consider obesity to be a physical disease with mental/emotional complications. I hope someday the key treatment will be found. Until then, we're all basically on our own.

Ruth:)
 
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Oooops...... Okay!

I have no intention to start ANY problem between the members on this forum, so if no one wishes to dicuss - because it is/can be a sensitive subject - I understand

Marion




:)
 
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Hi Marion,

Please don't misunderstand, I had no intention of shutting you down! I would NEVER try to do that...you have every right to bring up any subject you like.:) :)

It is a sensitive subject, but so are a lot of things. Post away!

Ruth:)
 
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Well, I think that obesity for SOME people is an issue of willpower. And for other people, it could be due to some chemical imbalance in the brain. But I don't necessarily think that the government should be paying for treatment of obesity OR anorexia. Do they pay for treatmeent of depression? How about cancer?

Medical problems should be paid by medical insurance.

The American government can't even cover our undercovered or completely uncovered citizens. And that's just for basic care. I see you're from Australia, so things may be different there.

I don't think obese people are happy being obese. Even if they are part of "obese is beautiful" type groups, I don't think they're necessarily happy being obese. They just are trying to make themselves feel better about their situation. I think if they could drop the weight easily, they'd do it without a second thought.

I know a few obese people (my sister and her husband) who make absolutely NO effort to watch what they eat or exercise. Both were thin in high school. I think they see it as too big of a challenge without immediate results. It breaks my heart because I don't expect them to live to an old age and they have 2 young boys.
 
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I think Claridge is Australian, by the way. Can't you hear the accent when you read the posts ;-) ?

I think obese people could do a lot on their own and it would bankrupt what's left of our health care system if we subsidized it. If someone wants to lose weight, there are physical, mental and emotional elements and they can get started on any one of those with just willpower, intentionality, self-help books, websites, and so forth.

Most obese people seem unwilling to do what it takes, and prefer to change the culture to "Big is Beautiful". I am glad we don't pay for health care for this particular problem.
 
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Hi Marion!

This is an interesting question. I'm a clinical psychologist who works with eating disorders, and although I don't think they are 2 sides of the same coin, I think the way obesity is almost considered a moralistic issue (we attribute all sorts of negative qualities to the obese - that they are lazy, totally self-indulgent, don't work hard, are not successful or amibitious - research shows that people think this way), some young girls who are sensitive and pick up on the judgment made of the overweight and decide they will never be subjected to such treatment start on the path to anorexia. There are a lot of other issues that are typically part of that (family dynamics are a huge factor, how these girls deal with emotions), but a concern about being overweight is usually involved in getting things started.

I think the increase in overweight and obesity is at least in part a result of the environment. WE increasingly engineer an environment that is totally convenient (and totally unhealthy - doesn't require movement, entertainment needs are met just by sitting in front of tv or computer, fast food and processed food). Yes, overweight people can help themselves, but its cruel not to acknowledge how strong a pull this environment has on behavior. Also, most of us are never taught the reality of overweight as a child (e.g. how biologically difficult it is to lose weight, how you gain fat cells in number when you are young and you can never lose those fat cells (you can shrink them but never lose the total amount you have), so by the time people are adults, they've lived a certain way they are being asked to completely change and the rewards (weight loss) are slow and often punishing. Just my 2 cents!
 
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WOW FFD! That was very well written. I didn't know you had a background in this sort of stuff.
I think that this could be a touchy subject but at the sametime,I always say if you don't agree with the subject then you don't have to respond.
I agree with everyone else that obesity could be controlled a little more.And it could probably be more of a Dr.Phil moment.Where they need theropy,someone to tell them how important they are and even though other people may treat them as if they are not obese,obviously they don't treat themselves with the respect they need.And the same goes for aneroxic,they are abusing their bodies.Both are very unhealthy lifestyles to be living.
Although(in my opinion) I think aneroxic is more of a disease then obesity.
I know a few obese people.I was looking at a pitcure the other day of a couples wedding pitcure.She was obese when the pitucre was taken and since then she as gained 70 lbs.I can't wrap my head around gaining 70 lbs. My next door neighbour is also very obese.Its sad really b/c she has gotten bigger since she as been married and her DH doesn't sleep with her anymore.She also thinks no one likes her.I think these are all mind games that she is playing with herself.And on the other hand prehaps no one gets along with her for other reasons but she is blaming it on her weight.
If the govt.were going to help obese people,I would rather they take the self-help approach first.Its fine to get your stomach stapled and stuff but if you don't have the emotional problems fixed first then they will probably end up in the same boat again.Prehaps after they lose some of the weight on their own,then the surgery can come into play.
Didn't carnie wilson gain most of her weight back after surgery?
Lori
 
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>I think Claridge is Australian, by the way. Can't you hear
>the accent when you read the posts ;-) ?

it THAT where all the funny and hard to read abreviations come from?
 
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I can only speak for myself and my experience. I was heavy until I was 30+, 185lbs, 5'8", not sure if that is obese but I was big. Ignorance and indifference allowed me to get through the day to day without even thinking about my lot. I had a couple of kids, lived in elastic waist pants, filled my belly until I was full at almost every meal and cooked without any knowledge of nutrition besides 3 squares a day with meat and potatoes for dinner. My revelation re healthy lifestyle came to me through my fit husband's diagnosis of cancer. A shift began and I started to slowly rethink my relationship with my 'earth suit'. How could I maintain my 'health' if I had never taken care of myself. After the fallout of the diagnosis settled a drastic lifestyle change ensued, exercising and eating right, WOW! what a concept.

Had my husband not been diagnosed with cancer I often wonder if I would be the strong and lean woman that I have been these past years.
When I was heavy I would wish and wish to be lean but rationalized it was my metablolism or run for the comfort of food and forget about it for a while. I was solely responsible for my weight, lifestyle and choices, nobody but me..... I understand completely that some have deep seeded psychologic and/or physiologic issues that contribute to their obesity but don't think that applies to the masses. When I look in food courts and grocery carts or listen to people talk about their ongoing relationship with fast food I think that many have become mindless in their food consumption and have tacitly abdicated responsibility for lifestyle and health management.

Again I speak only for me and my experiences. I would not want to see the government use taxes for the 'treatment' of the obese state of the masses. I have no problem with taxes being used for life threatenting eating disorders (anorexia or morbid obesity) but not for John and Jane Does obesity quick fix!!

No offense to anyone intended.

Take Care
Laurie:)
 
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Nope Carnie hasn't gained most of her weight back, she fluxuates about 12 lbs she says from what she got down too... so she has kept 95 or so percent of it off........ Rhonda
 
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I do think that the two can be linked - anorexia and compulsive overeating/binge eating.

I've had eating disorders for my entire life - I can't remember ever eating normally. I've had several anorexic periods, several bulimia periods - non-purging - and many compulsive overeating/binge eating periods. I've also had problems with compulsive exercising. My weight has fluctuated from being severely underweight to obese. I do think that my eating disorders are linked to emotional and/or chemical issues. The last few years, the fluctuations have narrowed and I haven't had major changes in eating or weight. Still, my eating and thinking about food/exercise/body image is far from normal.

I think overweight/obese people without eating disorders are just people who make poor food/activity choices. That's a whole other issue.

Hope this made sense!

Erica
 
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Marion-
How does the government help anorexics? When I was an anorexic teen my parents health insurance paid for the therapists they sent me to. If either of such diseases bring a person close to death, which they both can do, Medicaid pays for the hospitalization of an indigent person. Am I missing something?

As for your other point, my pet peeve is people who make assumptions about obese people they don't know. There are many different causes of obesity. People who were sexually abused as children are more likely to be grossly obese than the rest of the population. There are a lot of serious physical and emotional causes of obesity. My heart goes out to people who are obese. I was obese once when I was a teenager, before I became anorexic, and it was absolute hell on earth. The same is true, btw, for anorexia. I do believe they are often two sides of the same coin (they were for me). I could not be convinced to revisit either state for love or money. Isn't it great to be an adult? :)
 
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Oh, I thought I saw something a while back about her gaining back some of her weight but you know how magazines are.I don't beleive what most magazines print but I think it was a pretty good magazine like people or something.That was a while ago to.
Lori
edited to say: I should have said "some" of her weight back ,instead of "most" of her weight back.I knew it wasn't most of it.
 
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I agree that for some of us, anorexia and compulsive overeating are two sides of the same coin. I've been both anorexic and a binge-eater. My weight have varied from 125 to upwards of 325 and yo-yo'd in between those two numbers.

As a teen, I ate about 300 calories a day and exercised 2-3 hours a day. Even at that level, I never went below 125 (I'm 5'10".) I struggled and yo-yo'd most of my life until I had a child, at which time my thyroid went haywire and I gained 100 pounds in a very short time and just kept right on gaining. At that point, I figured why even try; nothing I do makes any difference (which was quite literally true at the time). I was a big time binge eater for over ten years.

My doctor finally discovered the thyroid problem and I received treatment, although I'm nowhere near "normal." Since then, I've lost 130 pounds at an average of half a pound a week, and have kept it off for 5 years, but I struggle enormously. Binge-eating is the biggest problem, but I still have fits of anorexic behavior when I get frustrated. I don't know if it's chemical or a conditioned behavior based on all the deprivation, but I believe they're closely related, at least in my case. I might also mention at this point that I am being treated for bi-polar disorder, which often includes obsessive/compulsive behavior.

As for using tax money for the treatment of obesity, I feel we're doing that already. We're going to be treating the diseases caused by obesity one way or another, so preventative medicine doesn't seem like such a stretch to me. It would seem to work on the same principles as health maintenance organizations. Unfortunately, it requires a great deal of willpower and effort on the part of the patient and is so often unsuccessful. I feel that's the biggest problem regarding treatment. We know what to do, but we often fail to do it.

Of course, the reason is that it's so very, very hard. I'm one who has done it, but I would never fault anyone who can't. There were many, many years when I couldn't, either. I just feel incredibly blessed to have moved beyond that period of my life, and I live in terror that I'll someday sink back into it. I have nothing but pity for those who are still there. It's misery, and I want to help those people in any way I can. If that means paying taxes for counseling, well, I'd rather pay for that than for their heart surgery, diabetes meds, etc. Surely it will cost less in the long run, even if they make many attempts before they succeed. The worry here, of course, is those who are looking for a quick fix or someone to do it for them.

Shari
 
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Interesting topic....

Ya know, every person has some issue they have to struggle with. Life is not pretty and terrible things happen that can cause all kinds of psychological issues; but, the more we find fault in others (find blame and/or excuses) the less we take responsibility for our own actions. The less responsibility we take the more we become a 'victim' and the less control we have.

It has also been shown that the more you 'help' (as in government assistance) the less likely it is that those being 'helped' will try to do for themselves.
 
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Hi

I mean that the government seems to be quick at stepping up to the plate when it comes to funding/or help fund "recovery houses" for anorexes, or step in with any $$$$ short fall, so a anorexic can seek help/support overseas if needed. There also seems to be alot more money given towards research on what causes anorexia - because I do relise the issue is a lot deeper that a person just wanting to be "thin"

BUT

for obesity, apart from a doctor recommending a diatician, and suggesting that person take up exercise - that seems to be it! No one seems to be helping these people by pointing them in a direction of "help" . If you are near "deaths door" because you have been diagnosed with anorexia, your family can step in (with a court order if necessary) and get you hospitalized ASAP for treatment wheather you like it or not. If you are near "deaths door" because you are obese, it would be pure luck for you to find a available bed in any hospital ASAP in the same way, and I dont think Ive ever heard about a judge giving a court order to hospitalize a obese person without their permission.

I also appreciate the fact that alot of medical problems are under funded, (and that is very tradgic) so people can have the attitude, anorexics should just eat more, and the obese eat less..................if it was only that easy............so I dont know the answer to how we can help fund everything, or how to prioritise health problems.

Its just sad that Anorexia is treated with compassion and Obesity with scorn

I would also like to say that I take my hat of to all of you who have responded and shared with dozens of forum readers, your own personal experiences on this issue. Your honesty and opinions do not go unnoticed or under appreciated

Marion



:)
 
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Interesting point, Nancy. An old friend of the family used to be a normal weight (whatever that is) & quite beautiful. Then one horrible day she was brutally raped & left for dead.
She very quickly started gaining weight after her "recovery" & has been obese ever since, & this is many years later.

Ruth:(
 
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Ruth - that is the most horrible thing I have ever heard :( that poor woman. I think you give a great example of a woman who literally has no control over her obesity - at least, not right now.

I was 80 pounds heavier some time ago and honestly, I can't tell you why. I was probably 20 - 30 pounds overweight in grade school, ten or twenty pounds more than that in high school and in college, it just got worse. In my last year of college, one year after the very unexpected loss of my dad (which probably put on the final twenty pounds more that I needed to lose), I got off the couch one day and exercised. I had tried WW before and different diets & exercises, but right away, I knew this was different.

Literally, I got off the couch, took out a step with tape from my basement (that my mom had and I took intending to use YEARS earlier) and did the tape. the next day I did it again. I cut out a few things here and there, stopped eating junk as best I could and decided that if I was goign to torture myself for an hour a day on that step, I was going to eat better and make it worthwhile! I lost 80 pounds in 4 months. My entire personality changed too. OR maybe it didn't...maybe I just felt more confident in being "me."

I write this all b/c I was told by parents (who really were trying to do what was best for me and motivate me) and family that I would be looked down on for being overweight, that people would think I was lazy, that I would be held back in the business world, that it was a "shame b/c I am so pretty." After every conversation, I felt worse. Some of those same people would talk about eating disorders as people who were "sick," "needed help," etc.

Personally, I don't think that obesity is a disease. I don't think that anorexia is either. I think that with health education and motivation, we can all become closer to a healthier weight and be healthier people. I also think taht with the proper health and education, we can all eat enough food and exercise a proper amount. I thinkt that both situations, in their worst scenarios, may require intervention by health professionals, therapists, etc. I think that our life situations lead us to respond with food (too much or too little) and I think that either way, it hurts us. IMHO, one is not worse than the other and one does not require more insurance, government, etc. intervention than the other.

Just my opinion...Christine
 
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I don't think Anorexia is a disease, I think its a mental state (illness) because I think these women see themselves as fat for some reason..... I can't figure how someone can see such a distored view of themselves but I guess its possible....
And as far as obesity, with most women and men, I believe its a state of almost giving up.... they think there is NO hope in getting small again..... When I was 30 lbs heavier, it actually never dawned on me that if I exercised and ate right I could change the way I looked, until I couldn't fit into my size 8's, now I am wearing size 6's and sometimes size 4's... going to get back into those size 4's for good and maybe a size 2 and possibly a size 0 :7 ....
But I can see their struggle....... but I do think with obesity its that they have almost given up ever being smaller......... Rhonda
 
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