Question about deltoids/ shoulders

M

munchkin928

Cathlete
Hi all! I'm a fairly new to weights and Cathe (restarting after a 3 month hiatus, probably got up to intermediate level before I stopped). I have a question about my deltoids and working my shoulders. I'm a typical pear with very small narrow shoulders and I'd like to bulk those muscles and even out my physique a little.

My problem is that I swear when I lift my arm in a delt lift, the main muscle that contracts is BELOW my shoulders instead of on TOP of it! It's very annoying because I have no muscles on top of my shoulders (can feel the little bones), but I have what looks like an arm saddlebag on each side. Does anyone else have any idea what I'm talking about? It's sort of hard for me to describe. I'm actually not at all sure this muscle is my deltoid, but I can't figure out what else it might be. :)

I'm sure a bit of it is fluff that will come off in time, but I was just wondering whether or not there are specific modifications or pointers I should know to make sure that I develop muscles in the right areas. What are the best exercises for making those lovely round muscles on top of your shoulders? I use mainly dumbells to work out - have to go up to the gym at school to use a barbell.

Thanks very much for any help you have!

Amanda
 
Amanda, I'm not sure if I understand which "under the shoulder" muscle you're talking about. When doing overhead presses, the triceps (under the arm) muscle are involved as well as the shoulders. Maybe your lats are getting involved in the shoulder lateral raises? Try going a little lighter to make sure that you are using just the side delts, and get the form and feel down before going up in weight on this move.

I can tell you what I like to do for shoulders and what has helped me with getting a nice shoulder cap. I do all my shoulder work with barbells because it allows me to find a hand position that is best for my shoulder anatomy.

I find that the three exercises that work best for shoulders are overhead presses with dumbbells, side laterals, and rear shoulders raises (a lot of workouts omit the rear shoulder, which is important for balance in the shoulder girdle). I don't usually do much front shoulder work, because I feel a lot of workout hit that area pretty well with chest presses (in PUB, for example, I omit them).

I like to lift as heavy as possible (in good form and without risking injury) for the overhead presses, and find that doing them while seated in front of a stability ball can help me stabilize my core and help me get in a few more reps. You could also do them on a bench that goes to 90 degrees. I like doing the oh presses first, but you could also do the lateral raises first, to prefatigue the side delts, which are the ones that add that "cap". By prefatiguing these muscles, you'll be sure to work them to their maximum, so that they fatigue before some of the other muscles that are involved in the oh press (like triceps).
 
Kathryn,

Thanks so much for replying to my post! I think I'm gonna try to describe the location of the 'saddlebag' a little bit better. If I'm standing with my arms at my side, then on the back of my arms would be my triceps, and in the front would be my biceps. Then someone like Cathe would have a nice cap of shoulder muscle which is coming down over the shoulders and covering the entire shoulder (back, side and front). However, I'm thinking I've just got this combination of no shoulder muscles and a fat deposit so that when I do a side lateral or side delt lift then it seems like what tenses the most is a little 'bump' about 2 inches below my shoulders on each side, and I can feel my shoulder bones where the top of the 'cap' should be. I have seen that other people's delts extend down this far, it's just their's seem to reach up over the top of the shoulder as well! I don't think I've described this much better this time through...

Thanks very much for sharing your own exercises - I do most of these in my workouts right now, but I will concentrate on really heavying up when I get to them especially the side lifts and overheads. I had no idea that I could cheat and use my lats in shoulder work... that is a something that I will need to look out for. I have seen improvements in the last year and a half, but I just have a really hard time putting on muscle, so I want to know the mst efficient way to build muscle where I need it. I'm sure any amount of work will help... it's just hard to be patient! :)

Thanks again,

Amanda
 
Actually, I would recommend staying lighter for the lateral raises, as they are more of an isolation move. Really concentrate on lifting with the side delt. If you go too heavy here, you will use more of the trapezius. Then, follow the light lateral raises with heavy overhead presses, as I describe above.

I'm sorry, but I still can't "see" what area you were talking about. I'm getting a visual of something kind of science fictiony!
Actually, I feel the bones at the top of my shoulders, too. The "cap" is more seated on the outside of the shoulder.
 
I just wanted to say thanks one more time for all the helpful advice. I had no idea that lateral raises should be done with light weights, but today I was much more careful and I think I could feel the difference - my trapezius was less involved for sure.

I don't think I look like science fiction :) - I just think I have a very long way to go towards developing actual shoulder muscles! I'm on my way though. I think this little thing that is bothering me is more like a fat pocket.

Thanks again very much!

Amanda
 
>>
>Thanks so much for replying to my post! I think I'm gonna try
>to describe the location of the 'saddlebag' a little bit
>better. If I'm standing with my arms at my side, then on the
>back of my arms would be my triceps, and in the front would be
>my biceps. Then someone like Cathe would have a nice cap of
>shoulder muscle which is coming down over the shoulders and
>covering the entire shoulder (back, side and front). However,
>I'm thinking I've just got this combination of no shoulder
>muscles and a fat deposit so that when I do a side lateral or
>side delt lift then it seems like what tenses the most is a
>little 'bump' about 2 inches below my shoulders on each side,
>and I can feel my shoulder bones where the top of the 'cap'
>should be. I have seen that other people's delts extend down
>this far, it's just their's seem to reach up over the top of
>the shoulder as well! I don't think I've described this much
>better this time through...

It is possible that you are describing the origin or insertion of the shoulder muscle (can't remember which is which). Doesn't that "cap" come over the shoulder and insert a couple of inches down? Maybe you just have some extra fat deposit over it, but it sounds like you could be hitting the right muscle to me. I don't usually feel this at the very top of my shoulder but through the rounded part.

Don't know if I confused the issue, but I think you are just feeling the muscle contracting as it should?
 
Punky,

I think you got it right on! :) That's what I was trying so unsuccessfully to say. I guess I just wanted to make sure that I'm hitting the origin (on the top of the shoulder) when I exercise. I know that you can do various types of bicep curls to hit different areas of muscle, and I didn't know if there was something similar for delts. I think I just have to be patient and wait for results. :)

Thanks very much for replying, and clarifying my problem (as well as the reassurance).

Amanda
 
Hang in there. One thing I've learned is I can exercise all I want, but if I don't watch my diet and get my fat % down, then all that beautiful muscle is covered up by my layer of fat. That's been a hard lesson for me to learn because I hoped that exercise alone would work. Now I just have to slowly work away at the eating and get the weight down.

It sounds like you are probably hitting the right muscle, so unless your form is off (and I'm sure you watch Cathe's form, so that helps a lot), you're working it!

Keep the faith!

Jodi
 
Yes, Punky has a point. If you look at an anatomy chart you will see that the deltoid muscle is actually below the very top of the shoulder - the bone you are describing. They key to developing the
"cap" is to lower the weight load so that when you lift, the upper back (trapezius) does not lead the movement. The arms should stop at shoulder height with palms facing the floor.

Another trick I learned in a kinesiology class is that by bending forward about 10 degrees from the HIP joint (back does not round) during a side lateral raise, the middle deltoid becomes more active. The first 60 degrees of shoulder abduction (moving arms out to the sides) is initiated by the supraspinatus muscle, one of the four rotator cuff muscles. By incorporating the 10 degree tilt, the supraspinatus is bypassed, thereby placing more emphasis on the medial deltoid, the muscle responsible for building that cap.

-Roe
 
Hello punky, roe and Kathryn,

I just wanted to say thanks once more for all your helpful advice. I did CTX All Step today and I applied your advice during the shoulder section, and I think it really helped. I tried very hard to concentrate on not shrugging my shoulders during my side lifts and overheads (I think I used to do that a lot!) and really concentrated on trying to feel it in the side of my shoulder. I think the slight forward tilt was helpful as well. I think I still need to practice it a bit, but it was very, very helpful. I had never really realized how much I engaged my trapezius when I did this stuff!

Thanks so much again. This forum is wonderful! It's great to post my questions and get such knowledgeable answers.

Amanda
 
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