Not putting on muscle, any advice?

S

sln

Cathlete
I'm 35 years old, 5' 7" 123 pounds. I look OK in clothes, but in my birthday suit I'm flabby. When I do the downward dog stretch and am looking at my thighs - it's like "Eeeew!" It's like there's a layer of flab all over. What's frustrating is that I've been doing Cathe rotations for months now and her workouts for years. I've done rotations focusing on "Butts & Guts", lower body, etc. Those usually call for working body parts 2x/week and 5 - 6 days of cardio.

After doing some searches on here for "skinny fat" and "ectomorph" it looks like Cathe recommends going heavy on each body part 1 time per week and decreasing cardio to doing it 3 times/week.

Do you think this will work for me? I'm in the middle of the "Muscle Strength" rotation right now http://69.0.137.118/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=7&topic_id=386&mesg_id=386&page=2 , but I had been doing the 6 days of cardio. Should I continue with the weight lifting and cut down to 3 days of cardio? Is my body trying to hold on to fat because I push it too hard with cardio? I'm afraid to scale down the cardio, but I guess I would give it a try.

I've been trying to eat clean (I'm tracking nutrition on Sparkpeople), I try to get as much protein as I can stomach (usually around 90 - 110 grams) - I'm a vegetarian so it's hard.

I have a Tanita scale and it puts my body fat at anywhere from 26 - 28%, which could be accurate judging from my lack of visible muscle tone.

Any ectomorphs succeeded in firming up body fat? Help! - Sarah
 
Hi,

5'7" ecto checking in here.:)

I find that cardio no more than 4x/week works for me. 3x/week longer and more intense cardio and a 4th lighter cardio, or sometimes just cardio 3x/week. But I still gain muscle very slowly and with lifting the heaviest possible weight I can for every rep of every workout.

It just stinks doesn't it?! Many people don't understand the frustration, but being an ecto is as frustrating as bulking up too easily or having difficulty losing weight.

Good luck and stick with it...patience, patience, patience.
 
Hi, Sarah. I'm 41, 5'2" and weigh 110 pounds and as of a couple of months ago, my body fat was 23.8%. I am also an ectomorph. I've lost 32 pounds since February. I've only been working out with Cathe since last October and only doing her rotations for about the last five months but I've noticed when I do more of a strength rotation, I feel like I'm able to lose more weight and build muscle. I guess what they say is true: more lean muscle mass helps burn more calories. I've done Cathe's Strong Like Bull rotation (March 2006) and this month I'm doing her Upper Body Bliss rotation (I think it's October 2005). It alternates Slow & Heavy and Gym Styles. I feel much better and my DH says I've never looked better. When you do too much cardio, you're losing muscle as well as fat. The protein you're getting seems to be good. I would give Cathe's muscle building rotations a try with the 3 day cardio and see if that works. I also keep a food and exercise journal and feel that definitely helped me with my goals. Good luck!

Marcy
 
Do heavy weight work, like P90X (for upper body) and GSL (for lower body).

Limit your cardio to around 30 minutes per session (to not burn off calories, but use them for building muscle).

Try hemp protein powder. Hemp is a very easily assimilable veg*n protein that contains all necessary amino acids. Also try food based supplements like Vega meal replacement that contain ingredients like Maca and chlorella (as well as hemp) that can help with recovery.

To build muscle, it's necessary to increase your calories. I've read of men eating enormous amounts of calories to build. (Total calories is more important than lots of protein, though when you eat more calories, you will be getting more protein).

It's hard to build muscle (which needs more calories) and lose fat (which needs fewer calories) at the same time, at least in large amounts, so you have to decide which one you want to do first.

And come on over to www.veganbodybuilding.com , where you can get some advice from vegan bodybuilders .
 
Kathryn - are you saying cardio for 30 minutes 3-4 times a week? Or more often but for that time period? If you look at the magazines like Fitness Rx for women they say to drop fat you gotta' do cardio about 6 days a week for 60-90 minutes. Who has time for that much cardio? Way too confusing!! I think I'm doing too much cardio as well and need to cut it back - that's gonna be hard.

Lorrie

"Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever"
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
 
I do splits. Gym Styles are my fav. I do
say.
GS Chst tri ( Kicks my butt the next day)
cardio any thing treadmill step kickboxing.
GS BSB
any cardio
GS Legs
cardio
Muscle max
Rest,
I also go as heavy as possible.
BIG WEIGHTS. You can do it. Take longer rests if needed.
You can't firm fat. You have to loose it.
I am 5 4" 139 at 19.6% fat on my scale...
You can't be that high in fat%.
Anne

http://www.picturetrail.com/acatalina
 
Melody & Marcy - thanks for the feedback, it's nice to know there are otehr ectos on the board, but I wish there were some easy answers for us. I get so jealous of the women who can just pack on muscle. I do so much hard work and I feel like I don't get any pay-off! :( Thanks for the suggestions! I've certainly tried 5-6 days of intense cardio, and that hasn't worked at all. I may scale back cardio and add some yoga/pilates instead. My hamstrings are TIGHT.

Kathryn - You said "It's hard to build muscle (which needs more calories) and lose fat (which needs fewer calories) at the same time, at least in large amounts, so you have to decide which one you want to do first." This is true, and confusing. Thanks for the nutrition suggestions and the website link, I'll check that out. I'm just frustrated because I feel like I've been working so hard and I don't have much to show for it.

Anne - thanks for answering. Yeah, I don't know what my "true" bodyfat measurment is. I would like to THINK it's not THAT high, but I really don't know. I guess all I know is that I don't look very fit - just flabby. Thank god for clothes! :)

Thanks, everyone!! - Sarah
 
Sarah,

You might really be working TOO hard, as weird as that sounds! I think your killer cardio training is killing any possibility of building muscle. I'd think about a couple of different approaches, and see which one feels like more of a fit - you might have to experiment a bit to see what you like and what works for you. The first, if you are really terrified of the idea of really cutting back on your cardio, is to do tough circuit workouts, which count as both strength and cardio training. Do something like:

M: Circuit (HSTA is wicked)
T: steady state cardio (NOT super intense, or super long)
W: Full Body Strength
R: Yoga or challenging stretch
F: steady state cardio
S: Circuit
Su: Rest or easy stretch

This should have PLENTY of cardio for you, but in a slightly less intense dose, while still giving you some solid strength training. Perhaps try that kind of thing for a few weeks to see what happens. Then focus on a more solid muscle building rotation, really dropping your cardio sessions:

M: Upper Body 1 (Chest / Back)
T: Intense Cardio (plyometrics, interval training, etc.)
W: Upper Body 2 (Shoulders / Tris / Bis)
R: Yoga or challenging stretch
F: Legs
Sa: steady state cardio

Use whatever Cathe strength tapes you like - PS series is one of my faves, GS would work VERY well, as would Slow & Heavy. Try to chose a weight selection for every exercise that makes it VERY VERY difficult to complete the last 2-3 reps - you should be struggling (not using totally bad form, and not hurting yourself, of course, but this should be HARD to complete if you pick the weight correctly).

Sounds like you are doing well on the nutrition front. Is there a chance that you are actually eating too little?

Hopefully that was somewhat helpful! I'm just shooting from the hip here - hopefully you'll find something that will work for you! I know how frustrating it can be to feel like you are working your *ss off, yet still have too much *ss. :)

A final suggestion would be to look into something like P90X, the Classic rotation. It's nearly impossible not to make strength gains (and therefore, presumably build muscle) using this rotation. That's what I'm currently doing (the second rotation I suggested above is essentially the crux of the P90X work week strategy), and I'm loving it.

m.
 
Thank you so much for the feedback, M.! Thank you for the rotation suggestions.

I've been very intrigued by P90X, but frankly scared to order from Beachbody. I've read so much bad juju about that company. Is there an alternate source to get that from??

I do have the Cathe PS series, the Slow & Heavy, MIS, and Gym Style Legs (don't have the other Gym Styles yet, but want them!). I really feel like I do push my muscles, and I have been able to increase my weight used (so does that mean I'm building muscle??). I don't feel like I wuss out with light weights.

Frankly I don't know if I eat too little - I have to kind of force myself to eat more often. I average about 1500 calories a day. Is that too little?? I'm really stymied about what my balance should be between calories/protein/muscle/fat. It's a quandry.

I'm just glad I live in Wisconsin, so I'm covered up 9 months out of the year :p

- Sarah
 
Hey M I also have to thank you for this. That's me in a nutshell "working my a$$ off but still having too much a$$". And I know I do too much. I do an hour of resistence (eg GS, S&H, P90X, etc) every day and about an hour of cardio. My cardio generally goes interval (a la cardio coach), steady sate, interval, steady sate, interval, steady state, rest. I know that the reason I am staying even is because I'm doing too much cardio. My doc last week told me I'm obese (wearing a size 6 or 8) and I have to move those numbers on the scale down. I'm with you Sarah - my diet is good, I just have to make that concerted effort to exercise less. (How ironic is it that so much of the population needs to exercise more - or at all - and we will have to struggle to do less?) Thanks for starting this thread!

Lorrie

"Pain is temporary - quitting lasts forever"
Candace Grasso, CC-V-6
 
>Kathryn - are you saying cardio for 30 minutes 3-4 times a
>week? Or more often but for that time period? If you look at
>the magazines like Fitness Rx for women they say to drop fat
>you gotta' do cardio about 6 days a week for 60-90 minutes.
>Who has time for that much cardio? Way too confusing!!

You have to decide what your goal is: building muscle (reducing cardio to keep from catabolizing that muscle) or reducing fat (doing cardio and weights to burn off calories, AND cleaning up your diet to reduce the amount of calories in somewhat).

For prime muscle bulding, I'd limit cardio to 30 minutes or so, 4-5 or longer, but less often. YMMV, so you might have to experiment a bit and see what works.

Also, circuit type workouts, like many Tony Horton workouts, are supposed to burn more calories than straight-set workouts, and have somewhat of a cardio effect.
 
RE: BB ordering. I had only a relatively small problem with my order, and it was cleared up easily enough. A colleague recently ordered through them and it was perfectly smooth, and fast. Lots of folks on VF have had no problems at all.... Although I understand your fear, as I was feeling the same way when I ordered.

You could try ebay - I've occasionally seen the full set there. The only downside is if you happen to have a bad disc, which can happen. I actually had a bogus Kenpo dvd, and BB handled that BEAUTIFULLY! I had a replacement disc sent out *immediately* with expedited shipping.

You could definitely go far using the Cathe tapes that you have. I'd just really cut back on the cardio when you do a strength focused rotation. You know what? It's not like you have to pick one method and stick with it forever - why not try the circuit style rotation for one month so you don't feel like you are going into cardio withdrawl (solid cardio but not TOO much, while still definitely taxing the body with weights), then do a strength based month, really backing off on the cardio as layed out. Rotate through those two approaches, mixing up the workouts as you go through (so, one month use PS series, next month use GS, next S&H, etc.) - that will keep your muscles TOTALLY confused (a good thing!), lots of variety, incorporating plenty of fat burning cardio, etc. Or maybe try 2 or 3 week rotations, if a month sounds too long for you. Might just do the trick!

m.
 
Thanks, M.! I appreciate the response. I might give P90X a try when I have some extra money (when will that be?? :))

I have a big selection of Cathe videos, and I think I will try scaling back cardio a little for the next few weeks of my rotation, adding in some yoga/pilates to increase my flexibility.

I often wonder how Rhonda (from Cathe's crew) toned up so fabulously. She always looked good, and she has a similar body type to me, but she is SO toned in the more recent workouts that it's amazing. I wonder what formula worked for her?

Anyway, thank you! - Sarah
 
Sarah,

YES! I noticed the same thing - I had been out of the loop re: Cathe's workouts for a few years, and when I got a few of the newer DVD's I kept thinking "Is that really Rhonda? Could it REALLY be Rhonda?!?" When I finally saw the credits roll, I almost fell over. She REALLY got shredded! I also thought that she looked fabulous.

m.
 
I would LOVE to get Rhonda's story about how she went from fit to totally ripped! She looks amazing. She looks like she could be an ectomorph body type too. How did she do it?!? Well, anyhoo, thanks for the advice you gave me and I'll keep working on my fitness regime! - Sarah
 
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