New doggie & crate question - VERY long

HipChick

HipChick

Cathlete
Hi all. I need some help. My DH & I adopted a doggie last Friday. His name is Skippy & his picture is my avatar. He's truly a precious little guy, very sweet, smart, & eager to please, & we already love him. He's about 1 1/2 years old & already house & crate trained. So far, we haven't had many problems or corrections to make but we have encountered a minor problem with his crate. He's portrayed most of the right signs for being housebroken but so far, whenever he has to be in his crate, he's had an accident. I know we've only had him for 4 days so maybe I'm expecting too much too soon but I thought I'd see what everyone here thinks.

We had to crate him for a couple of hours Saturday night & he urinated in a corner of it & when my DH went home to let him out for lunch today, he had a bowel movement in there. I know you may need more information before giving advice so here is more on his background. He was in a shelter at 6-8 months old when he was adopted into a foster home with at least 10 other dogs & at least as many cats. She immediately had him neutered & started with crate & house training. He's quite skittish & apprehensive about his new surroundings but he certainly didn't seem to be abused in any way. In fact, he really seemed to love his foster mom & always responded positively to her. He was always fed in the morning but we prefer to feed at night so he'll have several hours to do his business afterward, while we're home. To change his schedule, we gradually adjusted his schedule by feeding him half of his food at closer periods until tonight, when he'll get his whole meal at 7 p.m. I know we've totally messed up his system & schedule but I also didn't think he would go in his crate if he could avoid it.

We lost a very dear pet last year & never had to crate her, ever. So this is really disturbing for me anyway. When we got back from crating him Saturday night, I literally bawled my eyes out. It just seemed so pitiful to me for him to be stuck in there with urine on his pad. Poor little guy! Anyway, he's also been very freaked out in our yard & always on alert to new sights & sounds. The first few times we took him out was on a leash because we didn't want him to get spooked & hurt himself. But he wouldn't go to the bathroom at all. I finally got him to urinate late Friday night, after I sat & just waited until he finally went, although he still seemed to be more preoccupied with his new yard than doing his business. So we seemed to be over the "pee hurdle" until he had the accident in his crate. Right after we let him out, he immediately ran upstairs & went on the carpet too. That was Saturday & so far, we haven't had any further problems with urination.

His first bowel movement was late Saturday morning, while I was doing laundry. I keep our spare bedroom closed because the furniture is all antiques but I use the bed as a staging area for clean laundry. So he's freaked out about his new yard & plus, my MIL recently stayed with us & had her chihuahua in the spare bedroom with her. Anyway, he hopped up on that bed & unloaded right on the comforter while I was out of the room. Of course, we scolded him & immediately took him outside. Then, he had a bowel movement outside yesterday, so we thought we had cleared that hurdle too. We also praise him extensively & give him treats when he goes outside.

Okay, I know it's awfully early & this is only his fourth day with us & his first full day alone (it's breaking my heart knowing he's home in that crate... & now that I know he had another accident, I can hardly bear the thought of putting him back in there tomorrow) but I was wondering if anyone had any tips or advice for helping him with his transition. He seems to be just fine when we're there with him. He sleeps on the bed with us & no accidents there, so it seems to have everything to do with his crate at this point. He didn't like going in the first time we told him to go but today, he went right in with no problem both times. He does cry, though.

So I'm wondering if this is a form of separation anxiety, perhaps both from his foster mom & from us leaving him? Or do you think he got used to going in his crate while being fostered? Wouldn't that be unusual? I didn't think they would go in their crates but like I said, I'm not familiar with crate-training at all. Do you think maybe she leaves the animals in their crates for a lot longer than we realize? Or does this have to do with his confunsion & anxiety about the new surroundings & environment? Is it because we've changed his eating schedule & habits? Do we just need to stay out with him until he goes, no matter how long it takes? Should we consider letting him stay in a bathroom with a gate? Or is it just too soon to tell at all?

Like I said, I just have no idea about crating an animal & would welcome any advice & hints anyone can offer. He's a very sweet doggie, very smart & eager to please so I just want to make this transition easier for him. It doesn't take much to make him understand what he is or is not supposed to do. A simple minor scolding seems to do the trick.

Maybe I'm just jumping the gun on all this & I just need to give it a more time but it just breaks my heart to think of him being confined & having accidents like that! Please help if you can. He's a really precious & sweet little guy.

I probably won't be back until tomorrow so sorry so long & TIA!!!

Kel
 
I'm probably the wrong person to give you advice, since I'm anti-crate (yes, I know, I'm definitely in the minority in the doggy world). But, first of all, he's only been with you a few days, so everything is new and bewildering to him. You didn't mention if his foster family left him alone all day... or if there were people around all day. If he's used to being around people all the time, or at least other dogs/cats, there's bound to be some anxiety when he's left completely along for most of the day. (Reason number 1 why I'm anti-crate... that's way too long IMO for a dog to be cooped up in a confined space.)

Are you taking him for daily walks? That's a wonderful opportunity for him to get bonded with you, and for him to see you as the alpha. It's also good for him to meet up with other dogs and people during these walks, so he continues to get socialized and used to his neighborhood and surroundings.

Before I had kids, and both me and my DH were out of the house all day long, we started by confining our dog in the kitchen with a baby gate, and had a great neighbor who used to come by and take her out for a walk, play with her, etc. Eventually, we expanded her area, until we felt it was okay for her to have the run of the house. You could try something like that. If you insist on using the crate, try stuffing a kong toy with some treats... something that will keep him busy and occupied until he gets a bread from you guys.

BTW, I think it's great that you're letting him sleep with you at night, especially since you're both working during the day.

Good luck... and hang in there!
 
It's probably to early to tell. But, you are right, most dogs will not go in their crate if at all possible. But then again... there are the dogs that will. The different feeding times and the whole 'new place' thing could be the cause. Also, if the crate is too big, a dog might feel comforable going in it. It should be just big enough for him to stand and turn around in, not walk around in. It's very common for some dogs to relieve themselves in the crate if there is a blanket or towel in there. Try taking that out, even if you think he'll be uncomfortable. Give him a week or 2 to adjust to the new time and feeding schedule and hopefully he'll be fine. Good luck!
 
We have a Lhasa and she was the hardest dog to house break, but when she had it she had it, and in 13 years has never had an accident. The only thing that worked with her was crating. We graduated from that in steps. Her crate was very small at first. When she was okay there, we slowly increased the size of the space she had during the day. We had her so she wouldn't go on linolium, she had a few accidents on the carpet, but taking her quickly outside fixed that. The other thing that I think is critical to house breaking is putting your dog on a schedule. If you are rewarding her outside efforts with food you are keeping her digestive business from regulating itself. We feed our dogs as soon as we get home everyday, and only once a day. They are fat and happy. Try rewarding your dog with his favorite toy instead of food. PS I got the ideas for Tickles from a book specific to her breed. Some breeds are more difficult to house break.
 
I currently have 4 dogs all crate trained. What I have read and from my personal experience is that dogs will not deffecate or urinate where they eat, so basically feed them in their crate. I have them on a very strict eating schedule meaning that they all get fed at basically the same time every day. The three large dogs inhale their food while the small poodle sometimes does not eat. If you put food out at roughly the same time every day and they do not eat, remove the food after 1 hour or so. While it may seem cruel that they go hungry they certainly will not starve and rest assured they will eat they next day at the same time. This is a great way to get them on a schedule and therefore you can get a good idea of when they should go outside for a potty break. Best of luck!!:)
BooBoo39
 
I got my goldie when she was 7 weeks and had to read on how to crate train. It works extremly well if you are home and can take the dog out every 2-3 hours. If not it is ok but they will have accidents till the dog gets it. If the cage is to big block off half of it that will help. The dog will not want to dirty his own space. I would not want to leave the puppy out because you will clean up any accidents and will quicly tire of him. You have to time the feeding to your schedule anyways because you would have to time when to let your pup out. Dont feel bad he is a pup like a child there is an adjustment period. If you just let him out in the yard just make sure he is really using the bathroom and not playing first. I learned that several times the hard way. Now she is great she can stay almost all day if I let her any where in the house with no prob. Yyou just have to relax and love your pup he will be all right.
 
I agree about he crate possibly being too big. That was my first thought.

I was very anti-crate until we were told by so many people that it was the way to go. Our little girls were crate trained. Gracie was only 11 weeks old when we found her, and she was trained within two weeks. Gilda was anywhere from 6-10 months, and running loose in the wild for god-knows how long, so she took a little longer.

Good luck. I hope that it all works out. Have you talked to your vet about it? Sometimes they can help out in situations like this.

tpf
 
Thanks everyone! First, please let me say that we don't intend to do this long term. Like I said, we've never had a dog in a crate before & it's breaking my heart to leave him like that. But when we visited him at his foster home (3 times), he'd literally disappear & go to his crate on his own. So he really seemed to like it & want to be there. Now, I think it was his way of getting peace & quiet from the other dogs & I also think we already spoiled him by having him with us, non stop, for 3 straight days. Our long term plan is to allow him full access to our whole house but we just don't know what he might get into at this point so I'm looking at it as protection for him, as well as our house & belongings.

He's still doing great when we're home with him. He hasn't made the first move to mess in the house for over 2 days now. We feed him around 7 p.m. & he's having a BM in the morning. He drinks a lot of water but we make sure to take him out a lot. He's also starting to show signs of understanding that the backyard is his & he doesn't need to be afraid. He's so cute, romping & prancing around his yard! We also praise him whenever he "goes" outside & give him all the attention while we're home. My DH has decided to try & get home every 2 hours, until he starts to show signs of becoming adjusted. Yesterday, he only went home at lunch for an hour & then got home to stay around 4:30.

We also noticed this morning that he is definitely suffering from separation anxiety. When I went downstairs to exercise, I closed the bedroom door so he would stay in there with my DH & he was fine until my DH got in the shower. That's when he started crying... because he thought he was alone. Then, when my DH left for work (he goes in 1/2 hour before me), Skippy started crying again & running up & down the hallway. I kept calling him & telling him it was okay, I was still there, & he finally calmed down.

So, this is day 5 & it was my turn to "put him to bed" this morning. I had a little trouble coaxing him into "his box" but I just kept sounding positive, asking him to come, & he finally got in, turned around, & sat down until I got the crate secured. I also turned the lights down this time & turned on the radio but when I went back upstairs, he started crying again. All I had to do was put my coat on & grab my stuff so I went ahead & left, hoping he would calm down. But I could hear him crying, even after I shut the door so I had a pretty upsetting drive to work today. I'm so worried about him & I hope he's okay. As much as I dislike this right now, I still think it's probably best. I sure wouldn't want him to get into anything that could hurt him, like an electrical cord or something.

Our plan at this point is to keep him there until he understands that we're not going to leave him & we're always going to come home. Then we want to move him to a room with a gate & then to a larger portion of the house, & eventually the whole house. If he continues to have problems after another week or 2, we'll go ahead & place him in a room with a gate. Who knows, maybe he's soiling his place on purpose because he knows we'll get him out of there. Oh yeah, we're also not fussing at him about it. We think this is pure trauma & anxiety & we don't think he wants to do it, he just gets so worked up because we left him that he has an accident. Like I said, he doesn't have any accidents in the house so I think it's all about the crate & leaving him alone.

So that's where we are right now & from what I've read & understand, I think we're handling everything correctly at this point. We'll see how he does today. My DH should be back home around 10 a.m. so I'll know more then. Any other thoughts & advice? Sorry for this being so long again & thanks for all the responses!

Have a great day!

Kel
 
Sounds like things are improving.

Oh, and I looked at his picture. Oh my god! He is so precious! He looks very happy (and not just that sweet face, you can see the blur of the tail wagging!!!), so you must be doing it right!
 
I think you probably know this, but it hasn't been stated here, please do not scold him for "going" in the house unless you catch him in the act. This is very confusing to dogs. They have no idea why they are being scolded unless you catch them at it.

I think things will get better. Give him time.

I also think his picture is VERY cute! What a lovey.

Good luck.
 
Thanks again for all the kind & supportive words... & also for saying how cute he is. He's also as sweet, intelligent, & eager to please as he looks. We're very, very happy we adopted him & we plan to give him the happiest life ever.

I just wanted to pop back in & reply to a couple of comments that were made. Although I'm not experienced with crate training, I don't think his crate is too big. He's 28 pounds & we got a crate that's up to 40 pounds. The next size down would have been too small. He can stand up, sit down, turn around, & stretch out but doesn't have much room to get away from an accident. We're also not scolding him for having accidents in his box/house/den (I'd like to call it a den but he already knows "box" from his foster home). When he has an accident, he actually seems quite distressed about it all by himself & looks so sad when we clean it (& him) up but this has only happened 3 times & only once with a BM. We're also making sure to be very positive when asking him to get into his box too. I know we're just starting out here so I'm sure things will improve on a daily basis.

My DH was back around 9 this morning & Skippy hadn't had an accident but he was also only in there for 1 1/2 hours. My DH was able to stay for a little while too so he let Skippy out in the yard & then let him hang out with him while he did some things around the house. So that was good. Of course, he didn't want to go back to his den when my DH left but he went back willingly & started crying almost immediately. My DH will be back for lunch & then home to stay by 5 so maybe today will be a positive turning point for all of us (I hope!).

So thanks again to everyone. We'll keep at it, keep it positive, & I'm sure things will improve soon.

Kel
 
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