Marathon training and dropping weights.....

naughtoj

naughtoj

Cathlete
Hi all my friends in fitness!!

I have another question concerning running and weight training.

Why is it that they tell you to train with lighter weights when running, or training for a marathon. Is it just because lighter (body weight) is better for running and they don't want you to gain muscle mass. Or because they don't want your muscles to be too fatigued from lifting so as you can not concentrate on running performance?

It is not that I am not willing to put heavy lifting to the way-side. I just do not want to lose what I have worked so hard to get. When I lift weights, I use a weight that, by the last few reps, has me praying to God that the set be over. I really try to challenge myself. Now, I am confused as to what weight load to choose. How do I know now? Should I not feel a burn anymore, or just not feel like I am going to die by the last few reps?

What poundage does it take to MAINTAIN muscle? I am SO out of my element here!! With my motto...."Go heavy or go home", I am really lost. So, for all you educated people......if I usually use a 40lb barbell for Leaner Legs, what do I drop to now???

Is it OK for me to stay heavy with upper body, with no alterations to my routine? If I hold on to 10 lb dumbells all the way through LL as to avoid any heavy fatigue in the legs, am I still getting the strength training benefits I need to keep my muscle??

I am still trying to figure out my final routine. It will include twice a day workouts on a few days so I have to pay close attention. Plus, with IMAX worked in there, that gives some additional strengthening of the legs due to the plyometric type moves, right?

Any advice would be great, especially from stalky mesomorphs that have no business running marathons in the first place :):):)

Janice
 
Janice,

I ran a marathon in May 2003. I came in 4:10-- It was my first one. I too worked with Cathe's MIS and PowerHour 2 times a week. I "lifted" to challenge my muscles (40lb. dumbell equivalent to legs and upper body) but still maintain good form because I did not want to injure myself. I also did not want to lose any hard-earned muscle I worked so hard for either, but imfortunately, you will lose some.

The long distance running takes precedence over any cross training you do. If you want to complete the marathon, you must run following a good well-rounded running schedule (hard/easy) and must do one long run a week in order to get used to the time you will be running in the actual marathon. Your eating will change if it hasn't already. You must increase carbohydrates 60-70% in order to sustain the running. You will notice a difference in performance with proper eating. You also will notice a change in your body shape in spite of the lifting. I did lose visible muscle definition in the torso and even in my legs. The muscles become elongated and with carbs increased, your body will retain water (which is good for the marathon!)

I now workout 3 days a week with Pure Strength and Ctx alternating upper and lower (M, W, F) and cardio is done 6 days (run on T and Th and just 20-25 minutes step with intervals after weight training)

I got the definition back in my body. It looks a lot leaner but I have not lost any running stamina. I plan to run a marathon again (maybe 2004 or 2005). Training will be the same with a lot of clean eating (good low-glycemic carbs for long-lasting effect) and 2 days a week weight training as before. Good luck with the marathon training and the event. It will be the best experience ever!!!!

PS the plymetric training you are doing along with weights is a great accompanyment to your running. However, remember to do an easy run after because your legs are worked hard during this type of workout. You'll do great!!!!

Marla
 
Hi Janice!

Have you been reading my mind lately or what!?! :) This is one of my biggest concerns. I'm an ecto and certainly can't bare to lose the measly muscle I have and running worries me BUT I enjoy running. :) This is why I opted to do one day on the stair stepper - I read that it uses the same muscles that are required for running. (Water running is the best cross trainer but I would rather not have to leave the house to go to the pool.) Read all of this in The Non-Runner's Marathon Training Guide.

I'd be interested in what others tell you about the poundage to use for Leaner Legs. I like challenging my muscles too and after a good leg workout, there's no way I can run the next day. I'd be lucky to get in one easy mile! :eek:

I am going to check those websites you posted! Will talk with you later!

Thanks,
Angie
 
I don't really see how you can put in all the running that is needed in order to train for a marathon and not lose muscle mass. I say if you enjoy running that much then you should do what you enjoy. I personally don't find much use for it other than doing a 20 min. interval run on the treadmill. I do know that when I used to run more I found that I had a hard time keeping my weight up and also lost muscle definition. Alot of people, myself included, need to figure out if we want more muscle or if we want to be cardio freaks. There's a balance somewhere in your workouts that you need to find yourself. Most of us cannot have it both ways, meaning going out and doing endless cardio and still expecting to have larger muscles. Notice I said MOST of us....not all.
Since I am a hard gainer I am a firm believer in keeping the cardio to about 100 to 110 mins. per week. Most of that is high intensity interval type cardio for fat burning....like a spin class for instance. I concentrate on weights more because that is where my priorities are....gaining muscle mass.
I do occasionally do a goal oriented cardio activity such as a mountain bike race but during that period of time I know the weight lifting aspects of my fitness are going to suffer some and I just live with it.
Good luck in your marathon! :)
 
Thanks everyone for the responses.

I think I freak out over nothing, really. Like Trevor said, you gotta figure out if you are a muscle person or a "cardio freak". I would like to be dubbed both, but muscle makes me feel powerful, whereas too much cardio seems to break me down (in the joints). I would like to feel the personal accomplishment of running a marathon so for now, I will call myself a "cardio freak". Really, my weakness is not lack of muscle mass, it is lack of definition. If that means my diet sucks, well that is what it means. BUT...I know putting running in my rotation will help with fat loss even if I did not change my diet!

Even before I ever started lifting I got noticed for my muscles. But I guess that was when I was a "cardio freak". Maybe that suits my bodytype better. Since lifting, everyday activities feel like nothing..such as scrubbing floors and pulling weeds. I used to be sore after those activities, but not at all anymore!

I am planning a running/lifting/interval cardio routine and I am mapping it out all the way to marathon day: January 2004. I am using Hal Higdons Half Marathon guide and I am going to extend it from 12 weeks to 16-24, repeating the first two months to get my body more used to running.

At this point in my life however, I have no desire to run a full marathon. I think that kind of thing is reserved for the truly sick in the head. :) Which, knowing many other runners, is what i will be by January!!!:):)
I had good luck with dropping weights and upping reps last week. I was really suprised that I was still sore!!

Angie...maybe we can check in with our progress together..maybe like a running check in? I like getting feedback on it. Thanks for bumping!


Janice
 
Also Angie...

I did lower body this week, but mostly in total body workouts. If I do Leaner Legs in a running week, I am figuring out that the weight will have to be extremely light for me to hang!!:)This week I even ended up dropping all weight and really focusing on form and the stretch of my muscles (for inner thighs, for example). Or, I am thinking of rotation LL once every two weeks when I can sandwich it between a day of cross training and rest or rest/rest, so that I can heavy up and still have time to recover. When the miles start really increasing it is going to become very difficult I know. When it cools down here, my preference is usually for mountain running/trails, and we know that works the leg muscles well too. Running really complicates planning a rotation. Between the leg weight work, the intervals (IMAX) and hill running, it should be interesting!! You never really realize how chronically tired your legs are until you start trying to run a few miles everyday!:) Keep me posted!!

Janice
 
Good luck to you Janice in your goal of completing a half-marathon. You're gonna do great I just know it!
 
I have found that my legs can't handle weights AND running, if I am seriously training for something. I was training for races until last week and I took out lower body work. It worked wonders for me. I was able to run my miles and not feel totally dead afterwards.

I have 8 weeks until I start marathon training. I have added lower body weights back in to see how I do. I run 3x/week, spin once, and do upper body twice. The running and spinning seem to be great for my legs, and I haven't noticed any muscle loss. I can't remember what I'm called, but I'm tall and thin...ectomorph? I don't put on muscle easily, and will probably never have Cathe arms:-(

When I start marathon training I will take lower body weights out again. I'm doing AZ Rock n Roll in January. Which one are you doing?

I also found I had to decide what I was going to focus on. I was following a hardgainers weight routine, but realized I couldn't focus on running AND weights. So, for now I picked running.

Good Luck!

Andrea
 
Andrea..
SAY IT ISN'T SO!!! No lower body!! I figure that will come into play soon. Legs are tired today already after only one day of lower body! Uh-oh!!

I am in Arizona and yes, I am training for the Rock N Roll AZ. Be fun to see you there! I am doing the half...

Janice
 
It is so, and my running has actually improved:) When it gets closer we'll have to see if we can hook up somehow.

Andrea
 
Hi Janice!

I've been thinking about what Trevor said(thanks for the advice). Actually I've been playing around with different rotations for the last 4-5 weeks to see which lower body workout complements the running. Still no conclusions! :eek:

You know, when I did more cardio my muscles were more visible and my bodyfat was much lower too. But then again I was doing cardio every day, usually in the evenings teaching, a couple of times per day on the weekends, teaching and participating in another class. Then even more cardio came into play once I joined the aerobics performance team. I had minimum time for weight lifting. Hmmm, maybe I should.... nah.... aaaah, I don't know! :+

But I will become the cardio freak Trevor has so wonderfully described :7. Maybe not as much but cut back on the leg training for a while and just play it by ear. I noticed that when I lift heavy I can't run or rather don't like to run for a few days but it sure helped my long run the last time this happened.

I'd love to check in with you (and any other runners)! I would love the feedback too and it would be so encouraging! I think I'm going to pass on the 1/2 marathon in late September, I can't seem to get in as much running as required to meet my goal. I want to be able to run beyond or right at 13 miles before tackling something like that. I think now I'm going to focus on the 5K here at work in early October (try to beat my time from last year:)) and the winter training runs through one of the two clubs this December. (Thinking about the runs for the Frost Bite Series since that's closer to home. Still have to drive into Missouri but it's half the drive to the series' location).

Let's get together soon for a check-in! :)

Angie
 
Janice,

Hope you saw my reply to your first response – I replied directly to it so it’s tucked away among all the others. This one I’m throwing in at the bottom so that I can quit confusing myself! :eek:

OKAY! I think once I get everything written up, I will do either LL or MIS legs. And I’d like to do Circuit Max once per week. I love that workout! :7 Once I join the fitness center here in my business complex, I can get in some afternoon short runs/interval/hill training (2-3 miles on the treadmill) and a couple of times a week use the universal weight machine to do leg extensions and curls. Or I can do all of this after work versus sitting in traffic wasting time!
(Granted I'm listening to books on tape.....)

I agree, running does complicate rotations. Too bad though! I’m going to miss my videos. :(

This past weekend I tried The Ballet Workout level 1 after my 4.5 mile run. Not bad! I will definitely try this combo in the near future. :)

I’ll have to work on adding IMAX 1 and 2 into my training but I certainly enjoy the hill training I do on the treadmill.

Andrea – I’m going to print off your reply for reference at home. Thanks for sharing your training schedule! :)

Talk with you later!
Angie
 
Angie..
I have not had a chance to write my rotation up yet (hopefully tommorrow night), but your looks good. This week I got in two 5 miles runs and will run a 5k on Sat. Legs are feeling it this week since I am still newly back. Did 5 miles today and Muscle Endurance but then forgot to eat after weights at lunch until 7pm. BRILLIANT!!! Nothing like that to speed recovery right?:)

I will post my marathon rotation on a different thread and we can start anew! Talk to you this weekend..
Janice
 
Janice,

So how did it go?! :) I won't run another 5K until October, at least that's the plan. There's a couple of races before then - a 5K/10K, and a half marathon. :eek: I don't like doing these by myself! I really need to get over that!

Can't wait to see your rotation! I need to increase the running but my daughter has thrown me for a little loop - she wants me to walk with her in the evenings. I enjoy it much and am so glad she's concerned about her health. On one of our walks she mentioned a friend of hers who runs with her mom. I think this is what got her started but no complaints from me, I'll take whatever right now. :)

I'll work on my own rotation this week too. I may have to run the day before our walks and use the walk days as recovery or crosstraining.
My first rotation will not include the gym training. As soon as I join I will work on a new one.

Tomorrow I'm scheduled for a long run. I plan to get out early and hopefully get in 6 miles. Last weekend I got a late start and it turned hot on me and I only managed 4.5 miles.

Have a great weekend!
Angie
 
Janice!

Just emailed you but forgot to sign my name! Ugh! Too much solitaire!:eek: I have a crook in my neck and computer elbow! :7 The kids got a kick out of that! :7


Talk to you soon,
Angie
 
Angie...
I sent you an email the weekend you emailed me, but now I think I sent it to the wrong email address. I sent it to wherever you were when you emailed me. I thought at the end when you gave me your email that you just had two. Now I have deleted your old email. Can you send me another one so that I may forward you the original email??


Hope running is going good!! We can talk soon....
Janice
 
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