Hey vets, vet assistants or just you dog lovers!

[dss62467]

Hi everyone! Haven't posted in awhile cuz I thought I changed my profile name and couldn't remember it. I've got a question for those of you who know and love dogs.

I have a pit bull/german shepherd mix who will be turning 12 in April. He's about 80 lbs. and seems pretty healthy, but really just wants to sleep most of the time. A couple months ago, he was running around in the backyard with my daughter and her friend, and our corgi and he tore the ACL in his hind leg.

The vet says $850 to fix it, which is not unreasonable. But I don't want to put anything on my credit cards and wanted to save up for the surgery. He said if I have it within 3 months, there won't be problems with arthritis.

So I'm planning to have it done in the next couple of weeks, but when I took the puppy I got my daughter for Christmas (yeah - now we have 3 dogs), his son (who is also a vet there) gave Duke a life expectancy of about 13 years. Obviously, that's just an average based on his size and it could be higher or lower than that. I'm hoping for higher, of course.

My dilemma right now is whether I really should make him get the surgery. I tore my own ACL and know that the pain is gone after a couple weeks, but it's really bad after surgery and it takes a long time to recover. If Duke is in his last year or two, is it worth it to get him the surgery so that he'll be in pain for at least a month and have months following where he's trying to rehabilitate the leg?

It's just my daughter and me living in the house. I'm not the largest person, and even doing Cathe workouts, it's not easy to help an 80+ lb dog around. He gets around pretty well now, even though he frequently keeps that hind leg up. He joins me and the other dogs on our daily walks, but he spends about half the time on 3 legs. From what I remember, it's not that the leg hurts, it's that it feels odd. After the surgery...it's gonna hurt!

So....what do you think? Should I get him the surgery based on his age? It's an emotional decision, because it breaks my heart to think about his last years being difficult. We've been together for so long and I love him so much. I just don't know what to do. That's why I'd really appreciate some advice from someone who works with dogs, so there can be a less emotional and more realistic opinion. I think either choice is going to leave me with some feelings of guilt doubt.

 

[lala1]

Not a vet, but I love my dog! I voted yes, but of course there would be conditions

If you can afford it, I would do it.
Are you sure he´s not in pain right now?
Our dog had ACL surgery, but was only 3 at the time.

Have you asked the opinion of your vets?

This is a really hard decision ...good luck with it.

 

[cats_meow_0911]

What a cute pup!

I am a vet tech, and I have dealt somewhat with orthopedic procedures at a university. This is an individual choice, and I can definitely see what you are getting at. I really think this needs to be discussed with an orthopedic surgeon, though. They will be the ones that can give you a realistic outcome with either choice and can give you management options.

I do have to say that ACL tears do cause pain, though, especially when walking; animals are usually just very stoic. If he is not weight-bearing on the leg, that is a sign of pain. The degree of pain can vary (and is part of the decision of whether or not to perform the surgery), but it does sound like this is painful.

I wish you luck, keep us posted. Give your pup a pat on the head for me; I love me my pitties!

 

[dss62467]

I'm not SURE he's not in pain, because I can't ask him. I can only go by my own experience with a torn ACL. It's not just torn, it's gone....just like mine was. it didn't hurt at all after about 2 weeks, but I popped it out again the first time I went back to tae kwon do.

I guess I'll talk more to my vet about it before making the final decision. His son, the "other vet", seemed to be leaning towards the "don't do it" side, but didn't want to say. He didn't want to second guess his father, who has been in practice for probably 30 years. I trust this vet...he's not out to make a big buck, unlike some of the vets in our area.

My poor baby....I wish he could tell me what he wants me to do.

 

[fit44]

I voted yes because it sounds like he is in pain by not using the leg. The only reason I would use age as a reason not to proceed is if there was a significant risk of death from the surgery itself.
I always worry about my older guys going under anesthesia.

I understand you want the best for your loved one. I would have to trust my vet, and if I didn't, I would get an opinion from a specialist.
I'm very fortunate, I have one of the best university vet schools in the country, 2 hours drive time from my home. I've taken my boxer to see a cardiologist there. I felt better having a specialist examine our boy.

 

[dbelden1]

My heart truly goes out to you! I have been blessed with my furbabies good health, so would truly not want to be in your position! I can only say that I would probably do whatever could be done to make my baby as comfortable as possible for as long as possible. No one wants to think about the end of their pets lives, however, I do know that most pet owners do NOT want those last days to be filled with pain. As they can not speak for themselves, we as owners have the ultimate responsibility to ensure that we take care of them the best we can!

I would have to agree to get the opinion of someone you have trusted with your pet's health, however, it does make things more confusing that the Jr and Sr Vet have differing opinions. I would definatly be thinking of quality rather than quantity of a pets life... keeping them around (and in possible pain) longer because we don't want to feel the loss, is IMO a bit selfish on our part... If no pain, or pain that can be managed, and they are still able to be somewhat mobile, then I'm sure they are happy to be with you as long as they can! There are LOTS of 3 legged dogs running around out there!

Bless you and your pets! and whatever your choice, follow your heart... and know that you are doing what you feel is best for your baby!


As a side note: I have some good friends who have what we lovingly call the million dollar dog! Their Beagle has had more procedures, tests, surgeries, etc... than any dog I have ever heard of!

 

[SirenSongWoman]

I always say "cash only/no credit".... unless one of my babies needs help. Get him the surgery because he can't get it for himself. He's counting on you to ease his pain. However, being a nut about fiscal responsibility, these days, you'll want to do everything you can to pay off that credit card charge as soon as possible. Anymore, I believe credit cards are only for emergencies. This qualifies, in my book.

 

[Gayle]

I know there are definitely concerns with putting a dog of that age under anesthesia. Really talk to your vet about it and weigh out the pros/cons.

If you decide that surgery isn't the best option, there are doggie carts/wheelchairs available to help your boy keep weight of that leg. Again, get your vet's opinion on this as well.

I'm involved with a Boxer rescue, and these carts (sold on eBay) have been recommended by several people. They're relatively inexpensive and I believe your dog can still pee/poop while using it and not get it dirty. I think they're also customized for your dog's size as well.

Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Dog-Wheelchair-...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

HTH and hugs to Duke.

 

[dss62467]

I can't imagine Duke in a wheelchair. He gets around great now, even with the occasional 3-legged cheat. We've had a thaw over the last couple days and the whole foot of snow we got last week is all grass now. He's getting around like nearly normal and even running up the stairs. I think he's still very young and am leaning towards the surgery. I'm calling the vet tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

[Peaceful Rainbow]

This happened to our lab mix when she was just a bit younger (10 maybe) and we opted not to do it. The vet told us that the area would harden and eventually she'd be able to put weight on it again. That did happen and then hardly a year later she blew out the other side. We were sure that was it and we wouldn't be able to save her. She was overweight and could then only put weight on her already bad leg, but she did it and that one became strong enough to put weight on, too. She ended up even being able to run a little. She lived a few more years and died naturally at home last May when she was 14 1/2. We opted not to have surgery because of her age, the cost and the odds of reoccurrence. Every situation is different and if money had been no object we probably would have done the surgery, but for her it worked out okay without it. If you decide to do it, make sure you get all the info you can. Our vet was very upfront with us that there is a pretty good chance they'll blow it out again after surgery. My brother's rottweiller had the surgery and blew his out again within a year. I hope things work out for you.

 

[Tfit]

I said yes to....my dog tore her ACL then just when the time she was about healed...tore the other ACL.....so we had two suguries...she is doing great...she will not be a crazy runner like she wants to be...she is about 10 years old) Her name is Lady,....we call her a old lady)

She was definitly in pain....hard thing is we have another older dog...11 years...tehn a lb puppy...11/2 who want to run and lady wants to run with him but now we really watch her.

Tammy

 

[janiejoey]

Soon I will have to let go of my little Mollygoo. She is 12 years now and this breed doesn't live much past 13 years, if that. Her teeth rots easily now, and the vet has to take them out. That has got to hurt her, because she doesn't eat very well for a few days after that. Poor thing. Right now though she is doing great, a slight bad breath and will have her checked as soon as the snow melts a little. She may have to go in again. Not sure how many more I should let her go through. So, I know what you are going through.

Janie

 

[fit_fairy]

Soon I will have to let go of my little Mollygoo. She is 12 years now and this breed doesn't live much past 13 years, if that. Her teeth rots easily now, and the vet has to take them out. That has got to hurt her, because she doesn't eat very well for a few days after that. Poor thing. Right now though she is doing great, a slight bad breath and will have her checked as soon as the snow melts a little. She may have to go in again. Not sure how many more I should let her go through. So, I know what you are going through.

Janie

Janie, am I reading this right? Are you saying you may have to put your dog down because he needs his teeth pulled?

 

[fox2star]

Hi,

I voted yest. What a cute little guy! We just had the surgery done on December 17 on our 13 year old Wire Fox Terrier. I had the same thoughts on whether she could tolerate the surgery, then of course the recovery. Another issue is keeping them quiet and not active. We have a 9 month old Wire that is part of the reason she got hurt in the first place.

I am lucky she is only 22 pounds. The hardest part is carrying her up and down stairs. She tore her stitches out and we had to have it re-stitched and now she has a cone on her head. The stitches will be out Friday. What made me decide to do it is exactly what others have said...my vet told me it would be 6-9 months before she could use the leg if we didn;t have it done, and during that time arthritis sets in and because they are favoring the injured leg, usually they tear the one on the other side. That is what made me make the decision to do it. The cost of the actual procedure was $650, but totally it came to $1300 with all the other stuff they had to do.

I wish you luck with whatever you decide.

Deb

 

[buckeyegirl]

Resident vet chiming in here...

I totally understand where you are coming from regarding the surgery and his age. That being said, that leg IS painful, and yes it may improve slowly with time and subsequent fibrosing of that joint, but the leg will always be an issue. I think you will regret not getting the surgery. Dogs are amazing at how well they recover from surgery.

Just keep in mind that he will initially be more painful, but in the long run, having a stable joint will prove to be a more comfortable joint. Also realize that it is extremely crucial that he be inactive (NO running, jumping, crate confinement) for the first 6-8 weeks so the joint can heal and you don't have to go in and have it repaired again! The rest/recovery period is as important as the surgery itself.

It sounds like you truly love him and are a good mom. I'd say if you can afford it, do it. He'll love you for it Also, I do agree with others that be sure a specialist does the procedure or someone that is very experienced. Do you know what procedure they will be performing? TPLO?

Heidi

Heidi

 

[dss62467]

I'm not familiar with the acronym, but they're doing pretty much the same procedure I had done, taking a piece of tendon from somewhere else (obviously not the patellar) and grafting it on. As I said, the vet has been practicing for decades and performs the surgery all the time. He had 3 scheduled the week Duke hurt his. I hadn't actually thought about him tearing the other because he's favoring the hurt one and that's a very good point.

I'm a little concerned about keeping him immobile for that long. Not a lot concerned...he sleeps most of the day anyway. But what about rehabilitation? Shouldn't I get him up walking on it in a few weeks? I had to start working on my the day after the surgery, and of course it was just ROM stuff, but I expected I'd need to get him out walking after a couple weeks.

I'm going to call and make his appointment today. He has been more lively the last few days, so that makes me feel I'll have him for awhile. But last night he was laying next to my BF on the couch while we were playing Lego Indiana Jones, and BF must've bumped him because he started snarling and barking and bearing his teeth like I've never seen. Looked like a barracuda. I've never seen him react that intimidating before, but of course I just laughed because I knew it was all show. Then his lip got caught on his teeth and he looked like a vampire while I was giving him kisses. I guess that should tell me that he is still in pain.

Thanks a lot for your professional input.

 

[buckeyegirl]

As far as rehab, yes, ROM is good and walking, BUT only on a leash. Absolutely no running, jumping, stairs. Some do PT in a whirlpool or go to an animal physical therapist post-op..not sure if that's an option for you.

It sounds good that your vet is experienced with this sx. Currently with ACL tears, we are referring dogs over 70 pounds to the vet school at OSU for a newer procedure that is proving to be better long term for larger dogs. More costly, though - around $1500, I think But, we have many that can't afford that and our ortho is doing the same procedure your vet is doing. I'm sure he'll stress post-op care with you as I have.

Good luck - please let us know how your old fellow is doing

Heidi

 

[dss62467]

His surgery is scheduled for the 19th. Now you've got me nervous...it will be easy enough to keep him downstairs, he didn't try coming up to my room for about a week after the injury....just sort of stood at the bottom of the stairs and looked up them sadly. The first 2 nights, I slept downstairs with him. However...there are 2 steps going out of the house. We had been able to maneuvre them before by me picking up his back-end. It was actually quite comical...but do you think that will be a problem? He doesn't always use that leg when coming inside either.

 

[Peaceful Rainbow]

I don't remember how much he weighs, but we used a towel to help our dog get up. She weighed about 75 lbs and there was no way I could help her on my own. We put the towel underneath her right in front of her back legs and then grabbing each side of the towel lifted her up. We got her rugs to lay on because we have vinyl and laminate flooring and she couldn't get a foot hold to help herself.

 

[kathryn]

Hi However...there are 2 steps going out of the house. We had been able to maneuvre them before by me picking up his back-end. It was actually quite comical...but do you think that will be a problem? He doesn't always use that leg when coming inside either.

Can you get or make a ramp? (with some kind of non-slip/grippy surface one). I think that would be walkable for him, even though the steps might cause a problem.