Heart Rate Question for Runners

melissat

Active Member
How long does it take to condition the heart for running? I started a running program 3 months ago, already in pretty good shape from the stairmaster and Cathe. Since it's so hot here, I run mostly on the treadmill 3-4 times each week, usually 2 mi twice and 4 mi once a week. If I keep the treadmill set at 4.5 mph, I can keep my HR at about 146 bpm (which is where I would like to stay for most of my runs). For about a month, I've been trying to increase my speed. I've ran in 3 5k's and would like to improve my time (40 min x( ). The problem has been my HR. If I up the speed to 5.5 mph, my HR goes up to about 160 bpm. I'm 34, so this is higher than I would like. This morning I ran outside. It was about 75 degrees here w/90% humidity. I kept my speed slow (about a 10 min mi), but after the 1st mile I couldn't jog and keep my HR below 168. At one point I noticed that my HR was at 170.
Will this get better with time? Any training advice?

I usually just lurk and read the posts from the experienced runners on this forum and I want to say thanks - I've never been able to run in my life and it's been a big deal to just run a 5k. You guys rock and have already helped me tremendously!
 
Hi Melissa...I have run for about 30 years so as far as how long it takes to condition your heart...I am not sure...Do you know what your Max heart rate is? Because as far as getting faster you have to run fast to get faster and therefore your HR will go up. There are some things that can reflect on an elevated HR while running as outside temps, overtraining, sometimes your HR goes up a bit before you get a cold. I think a good idea for you would be to get a Heart Rate book for some more info. Sally Edwards has some good ones. Also check out www.runnersworld.com and www.coolrunning.com to see if you can get some more info on your Heart Rate. HTH...:)
 
Hi, Melissa! Keep in mind I'm a total newbie to running myself, having begun a once-a-week run only a week and a half ago. That said, I'd like to offer a couple of thoughts.

Your HR during this morning's run might have had at least as much to do with the humidity (maybe even more so) than your true oxygen demand. Warmer and more humid, water-saturated air conditions tend to jack up the strict heart rate i.e. the number of times your heart is beating per minute. However, when this happens your stroke volume can go down, which means your cardiac output is going down as well. It's tempting to throw everything in the heart-rate basket when evaluating your exertion level and cardiovascular benefits; however, total cardiac output is what you need to focus on.

Considering that you were already an experienced exerciser before you took running, IMHO you should let go of the HRM for awhile and focus exclusively on your perceived exertion (how hard YOU feel you're working) and the talk test (can you speak briefly during your run once you've gotten out of warm-up mode?).

Plus, it could be that in addition to your running in warmer, humid environs, the fact that you switched from a treadmill to a regular running surface might have had something to do with the difference in HR. Treadmill running is different from traditional land running. (Again, I know I'm not an experienced runner, but I HAVE done treadmill walks and land walks, and there is a difference there too.)

Just some things to think about. Again, IMHO letting go of the HRM for awhile and focusing on your performance goals (extending your mileage; increasing your speed; or BOTH) might be something to adopt for a short-term program.

HTH -

A-Jock
 
I absolutely agree with AJock.

Ignore the heart rate monitor for a few weeks, all it seems to be doing is making you anxious.

I'm back into running again and never use a monitor, ever. It's too much to be thinking about for me. I set myself a goal and work on achieving it, while paying attention to how I feel. I'm using the treadmill too.

What I'm doing is gradually increasing my mileage. I love Jeff Galloway's philosophy, he's such an enabling runner and coach. So, following his guide, I run for 2 mins, then walk for 2, and repeat this 15 times for a workout. I do this three times per week, then next week, I run 3 mins, and walk for 3 and repeat 12 times. And so on. I keep getting to 7 min miles and then being interrupted by life events that force me to take a few weeks break! Arggh! But, I'm back at it again and determined to keep going until I am running 30 mins+ without stop.

In addition to the goal to increase mileage and time I can run without stopping, I also work on increasing my speed. I can powerwalk at 5.6 mph, so I start my running speeds at 6.5. Each 2/3/4/5/6/7 mins I run, I increase the speed of the next running interval by another +1 mph. So, after 5 running intervals I am up at 7.0 mph and loving it.

Sure, my heart rate is shooting up, but by gradually increasing the distance of the running interval each week, my heart is conditioning itself without me having to worry about it. I focus on my breathing at the higher speeds: in for 2, out for 2, and I think enabling thoughts: "I can do this," "I'm getting so strong," etc, and then there is no room for anxiety.

I usually end up, by the time I get to 7 min long running intervals, which I do 10 times, at a total workout length of 8+ miles, and I do this 3 times per week. I am never worried about my heart rate because I know that I can do this because I am gradually increasing the demands I place upon my cardiovascular system and body overall.

Cardiovascular conditioning improves with slow, gradual increasing of the workload and demands you make upon it.

So, for the last 5 running intervals I return my focus to speed. I may continue the gradual speed per interval (i.e. interval 6 at 7.1 mph, interval 7 at 7.2 mph, etc) or I may keep increasing the speed of each successive minute within the 6 mins the interval lasts (min 1 at 7.1, min 2 at 7.2, etc) and usually, I do a combo of both of these approaches. By the end om my workout I can be running flat out at 8 mph. Yes, it's hard and I'm blowing out air hard. But, I maintain focus, I keep the breathing steady, even if faster paced.

I may be feeling very fatigued by the end, and maybe slightly pukey, but the point is: I know what my body is capable of, and I know that I have to push it harder to see the improvement I want and I'm fully prepared to do so because I want it. There's no point in worrying about it. You have to learn to trust yourself and trust your body. You will have to push harder and force yourself out of the comfort zone if you want to improve cardiovascular conditioning and run faster and further. Until you try doing it, you won't ever be able to do it. Your body always responds to the demands you place on it, either by increasing muscular strength because you force it to lift heavier weights, or by improving oxygen consumption and deliverance of glucose and oxygen to the muscles becasue you forced your body to run faster during today's workout. The body responds "after the fact" as it were. You won't suddenly be able to run comfortably at 6.5 mph, if all you have been doing is running at 6 mph. You will have to run a few laps of the treadmill at the faster pace, and then repeat this two more times in the same week, before your body will respond with improved conditioning, which you will experience as "hey, this feels easier to do this week," when you repeat it the second week. Then, by the third week, you have to increase the challenge again: either you run further or you run longer.

Rest is crucial. I used to think I needed to run every day when I was younger (I was a runner as a teenager and at college), but all I got was injured every 6 mths. Now, I see great improvement on three running workouts a week. You don't need to run more than this, and in fact, if you are trying to increase your running speed and/or distance, cutting back to three running workouts a week is adviseable.

But: you will have to step out of the comfort zone, mix it up, play around with speeds, play around with distances and increase the challenge each week to continue to see the cardiovascular conditioning you want to achieve, at whatever speeds you decide to run.

Notes on your post after re-read: why do you not expect your heart rate to increase when you increase the speed at which you run?!??! Of course it will. Temporarily, you will have to accept this. As you repeat running at the higher speed, and your heart responds by getting stronger, the heart rate will lower at the same speed. This is biology. And yes, running outside is more of a challenge than running on the treadmill, since there's no moving floor beneath to assist you moving right along! So, yes, your heart rate went up and you perceived this as more difficult. But, in order to see improvement you will have to put up with some initial discomfort as your body responds by getting stronger. Not pain, but discomfort, yes. I know that the first workout of each week, the one where I do the new distance for the first time, is going to be less confortable than last week's last workout. And it is. I acccept that, acknowledge it as it happens, grit my teeth and run through it.

Go to runnersworld.com and see tips on how to train for that 5k, OK?

Hope this helps,

Clare
 
Thanks for the advice! I think you are all right and I need to forget the HRM for awhile. Using it is counterproductive for my current goals. It makes total sense that if I am in a different climate (outside & humid vs inside w/AC) and trying to push my body to run faster or farther, my HR would increase, but I hadn't thought of it that way before.
Thanks again!
Melissa
 
Melissa,

I didn't get to read through all the posts, but I would say don't get hung up on the HRM numbers ~ just get out there and run and build your endurance. Once you have the base mileage, then work on increasing your speed. In addition to the RW and Cool Running websites, you might also want to subscribe to the RW magazine. That was my training bible initially along with books written by Galloway, Sheehan, and RW. I'd save the HR-specific training for later.

Happy running!

[font face="heather" font color=brick red size=+2]~Cathy [/font face] http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/4.gif
"Out on the roads there is fitness and self-discovery and the persons we were destined to be." -George Sheehan
 
Hi,
I love running! I've been doing it for several years. What I find is my heart rate will always be higher running versus any other type of activity. My heart rate runs high "normally"...I can run 20 miles with my average heart rate 158-162 bpm the entire time and not feel winded. So for me "my perceived rate of exertion" is way off from what the heart rate charts recommend for my age which is 44.

So I guess what I'm saying is having a heart rate in the 160's while running may not be all that bad IF you feel fine and know your heart rate range (light/moderate/high exertion). If however you feel winded and tired, slow down or take short walk breaks to bring your heart rate down. Your body will eventually adjust. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. :)

HTH,
Kathy G
 
I'm 30 this year and have been running for about 5 years. Usually I'm pushing it when I'm above 180 and I'm slacking when I'm in the 160s. Test your MHR- actually test it- without doing the 220 minus your age thing, which actually has nothing to do with it.

I have noticed in the past that if I'm running and the temperature is different than "normal" for me, like it sounds like your run was today, I go out of my range very quickly as my body works hard to adjust to the big change. HTH!
 
My thoughts and opinion: keep the heart rate monitor. IMO, if you are going to be obsessive about any piece of workout equipment or gadget, this is the one! It tells important tales with each workout and I don't think the information is worth disregarding.

It's important feedback and an excellent progress tracking device!

I also think the 146 is perfect! Not sure how you came up with it but I 100% agree with that number.

If you want to get faster, do speed work for 10%-15% of your weekly miles. The combo of the 85%-90% low intensity paired with the 10-15% high intensity will increase your aerobic capabilities while adding speed.

Too much speed work or too many workouts with a heart rate that is too high and all you are doing is breaking down/deteriorating your aerobic system. The low HR provides the correct amount of stress to allow for the aerobic system to thrive and get stronger.

In summary, I'd keep the 146 for 85-90% of your cardio and speed work (track, hill work, etc.) and high intensity for the other 10-15%.
 
Hmmmmm. Well, I would go by perceived exertion. Some people can run for long periods at higher heart rates while others have to run at lower rates.

I don't know how accurate the heart-rate monitors are on club treadmills, but my heart-rate has gone up to 168 running at 5.7 mph and I can run for 60 minutes at that speed/exertion and, I am not an advanced exerciser by any means.

I agree that heart-rate monitors have their place, but I strongly believe in getting to know your body without having to rely solely on a computer. There are some days when you are "on" and some days when you are "off" and, the best gauge of those inconsistencies is YOU, not a microchip.
 
Does the HR need to be at 146? If I keep mine at 146, I feel like I am not getting anything out of my run? Sorry to hijack the thread with my own question. If I am doing speed work, it totally gets up there. I like to challenge myself on runs but how do you know if your HR is too high? I am 35 so I am closre to the original posters age. Just wondering.
LD
 
I think the best way to gauge how everything is doing is by what your heart is doing. There is only one way to track that and it is with a HRM. As for the ones on club machines...huge waste...don't bother with them. The only HRM's worth anything come with a watch and chest strap. Those contain your personal information and count every single heart beat. There is no better way. You could run, feel great, go at a nice pace and feel euphoric...but be going too fast. If your running for fun, so what. If your trying to improve your aerobic endurance and strength, your going abouyt it all wrong.

If you are running and it feels like you are doing nothing, odds are you are running at the right pace...again, only if your goal is to improve your aerobic fitness and do better in races. You will get your fill of the "tough stuff" that will increase leg turnover and speed during your 10-15% speed work.

Run too fast too much and all you do is burn glycogen, release insulin, which inhibits the bodies ability to burn fat.

LD, you have been running for years. If you have been healthy fo a long time and have no conditions, medications or anything else, you could safely stay between 145-150. That is 180- your age...+5 for being so fit and healthy. For more information, do a search on Phil Maffetone. His theories can be a bit strict, so I make adjustments...but I owe him for qualifying for the Boston Marathon!
 

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