family drama creates moral dilemma - HELP!

[dbelden1]

I will start off by saying that I might just need to vent here, but want to know the opinions of ones that are not so close to the situation and hopefully can get some sound advice, as I know there are people that deal with people in need on this forum. I hope you will permit me to elaborate a bit on my family drama that is leading me to a heart breaking moral dilemma.

Let me start by saying that I love my younger sister very much and it pains me to no end that her life has ended up as it has...

Our mother left her father and her for awhile until the divorce could be finalized. Divorce at 12 years old was devistating to her, especially when the father indulges every demand and caters to every whim. Shortly after he tried to reign her in she rebeled and dropped out of high school (with 3 months till graduation), moved in with her dead-beat boyfriend (later dead-beat husband and convicted phelon) and his welfare family intent on bleeding the Federal programs for every resources they could convince the "system" they were somehow "entitled to"... all able-bodied adults who for one reason or another either couldn't work or wouldn't. great roll models... I was out of the house by this time as younger sister is 8 years my jr. and struggling myself to pay my own way through college and working two jobs. At the time we were not very close and sadly did not make much effort to maintain much of a sisterly relationship until a few years later when she called me to help her out of a crisis. I was not terribly financially stable at the time either, but helped in any way I could. Did not help that she was 400 miles away, but somehow we got her through the tough time. This was the beginning of a horrible cycle of enabling that now we can not seem to break.

After 16 years of being in and out of situations like this: two failed marriages, losing too many jobs to count (of course NEVER her fault), either skipped out on rent due, or been evicted for nonpayment of rent due, she has managed to "borrowed" the entire family to death. She has guilted our mother into handing out money to mend the rift between them, but it was never enough. She has also played the "daughter dearest" card with her father (not my father) until his new wife puth the kabosh on it, seeing it for what it really was - Emotional blackmale... while there were periods that we got a long famously, and she did start opening up to me about her feelings and we became close, but I could never understand why she was so hell-bent on living a life of poverty, knowing her potential. I thought, "at least I am a good roll model"! and was proud of what I had accomplished on my own.

This all came to a head late August 2006, when her father and his wife and I had to go gather her and her dogs from being evicted from a flea-bit motel just shy of skid row. Forced her to lose the excess baggage of a non-working, baby-making slug, who would rather skip out the back rather than take responsibility of anything. after 2 weeks of searching for a suitable, inexpensive room to rent situation that didn't want a fortune in rent and deposit, we finally found her a place where she could start fresh. Gave her much assistance in finding a job, paid for the first months rent so she could get back on her feet and gave her a gentle nudge back onto what we thought was a "road to recovery". she acknowledged that she needed to make some changes and promised that she would make every attempt to do so now that she was single again and making a go of it on her own.

for the past 2 years she has been doing pretty well on her own, however, still struggling to keep jobs, dropped out of trade school due to an extended illness that put her too far behind to continue at the time, self diagnosed herself with depression (and who wouldn't be going through all this), ADHD/ADD, and now bi-polar, and has lapsed back into the same old pattern. She now is living in a dumpy trailer for $300 per month with a guy (was friend, now BF and his kid) and called me last night for a "loan" so she could pay a few months rent and get a "little ahead" until their new job paychecks (both just started late last week) start coming in towards the end of October, due to the way the pay periods for hourly workers apparently work. She had planned on paying me back the $1000 she wanted to borrow when she got her taxes back in January/February. See she has this theory that she would be claiming Head of Household and her bf's kid as her dependent thereby making her eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit. To my question as to why the father didn't claim the kid as a dependent: they would take all the refund and the EITC to pay back child support. OMG! is this even legal?

to get back on track, I am supposed to be calling her back tonite to tell her that I just can't bring myself to loan/give her any more money. I told her 2 years ago that that time was the absolute last time and she would need to work it out herself and do some major growing up...

Now I feel aweful, which is probably what she was counting on (and the fact that I would cave) and give them something... but I have decided after discussing the matter with DH that we will not be sending her any money at this time. The question was asked if her BF had asked his family for assistance also, and she said they told them that they have their own family to consider... apparently either the BF has done this to them also in the past, or again no real roll models.

Am I a bad sister for not just hading over at least some money to help them get through until their paychecks start flowing again? Or is it worse to indulge, reopen the money-line that had been closed quite vocally 2 years ago. I do NOT want to continue to be an enabler, however, what other things can I do to get her help? Much more than the financial help she needs, I believe that she needs much more social and psychological help she apparently needs to properly diagnosis any depression or bi-polar issues she may have. the ability I have is only finanicial, and after that is gone, what happens during the next few months when she hates her new job so much doing home health care that she looks for another job and quits... cycle starts all over again, and since I did it the last time, sissy will bail me (now us) again...

I just can't do this any more.. What suggestions do any of you have from either your own situations or in dealing with this on a professional level? I'm lost and don't want to feel like I am turning my back on her and enforcing Tough Love, but yet still having compassion for my flesh and blood. Please offer any suggestions remotely related to this situation.

thank you for taking the time to read, and I apoligize for the length.

 

[SirenSongWoman]

Depression, my butt. She's a manipulative freeloader who'll bleed you dry if you let her. Just say no. Then make certain your home and car aren't vulnerable to theft...

 

[meowracer]

Dani - the last thing you need to do for your sister is give her more money. If she lives to be 100, until the day she dies, she will never learn to take responsibility for herself and make it on her own if she keeps getting bailed out. You love her, you want the best for her, and you have gone above and beyond to try to help her out. Tough love is exactly what she needs in addition to getting out of the influence of these people she seems to attract. The way I see it, you have done all that you can do. It is not up to her to WANT to change and make it on her own. She has to learn to make good choices, to be responsible and to get help if she needs it. There are plenty of clinics that can help her both psychologically, socially, and to get on her feet again with some guidance that does not come from her family. It seems that to her, the family is a money tree and she won't listen and learn from you. She needs that from an outsider if she will take it. It is shame, really, that she has done this to herself. Are there drugs involved that you know about? The only thing I can think of that you could do is have her committed if she really needs help. Maybe that would do something, maybe not. Aside from that, you could gather some numbers of shelters, clinics, places like Dress for Success that can teach her interviewing and job skills, and help her dress for it, etc. She certainly isn't alone; there are lots of people in her shoes and that is why these organizations exist. Continue to be firm - it is the best thing you can do for her. Let her know you still love her and you will help her out any way you can to support in all non-monetary ways that you possibly can. All the best to you and to her.

 

[dbelden1]

Depression, my butt. She's a manipulative freeloader who'll bleed you dry if you let her. Just say no. Then make certain your home and car aren't vulnerable to theft...

we live 2300 miles apart right now, so it is a pretty safe bet our valuables are safe.

we have never wanted to push the situation out to where there was the oh so real chance she would be living on the street... where do you draw the line?

 

[dbelden1]

There are plenty of clinics that can help her both psychologically, socially, and to get on her feet again with some guidance that does not come from her family. It seems that to her, the family is a money tree and she won't listen and learn from you. She needs that from an outsider if she will take it. It is shame, really, that she has done this to herself.

Are there drugs involved that you know about? The only thing I can think of that you could do is have her committed if she really needs help. Maybe that would do something, maybe not. Aside from that, you could gather some numbers of shelters, clinics, places like Dress for Success that can teach her interviewing and job skills, and help her dress for it, etc. She certainly isn't alone; there are lots of people in her shoes and that is why these organizations exist. Continue to be firm - it is the best thing you can do for her. Let her know you still love her and you will help her out any way you can to support in all non-monetary ways that you possibly can. All the best to you and to her.

Each of us have had these same heart to hearts with her and she even acknowledges that she needs to change. but when the families all go back to their own lives, she is left to immediately fend and defend herself from sliding back and she is apparently not strong enough.

There are NO drugs involved (thank God) she rarely drinks and has never taken to anything more than smoking cigarettes, so I don't know if they have such things as financial interventions or psychological ones for that matter... And seems like if you are single, no kids, there are few public agencies that have the funding or capacity to help with counseling, etc... the distance between us is a detriment to her because where she is she really has no family other than the one she is creating. everyone else is far away and she feels alone. but I will not allow her to come live with me due to the REAL possibility that she will NEVER leave!

anyway, i'll continue practicing tough love as I had decided to do... any additional suggestions on where single women no kids either unemployed or bairly employed can go for help. We think she needs to get "rocked" to the core from someone outside the situation that can see through all her BS and justifications for all the "bad things" that keep happening to her... a little black cloud follows her wherever she goes.

thank you for your support! I'm working on keeping my word and holding her responsible for her decisions.

 

[SirenSongWoman]

we live 2300 miles apart right now, so it is a pretty safe bet our valuables are safe.

we have never wanted to push the situation out to where there was the oh so real chance she would be living on the street... where do you draw the line?

Sometimes, I really need to watch it. I live in a bad neighborhood FULL of Porch Dwellers (jobless substance-addicted types whose families have LIVED on public assistance for generations, even during times of economic growth) and I tend to rush to judgement because my neighborhood PDs drive me so nuts. Thus, I tend to see everything through a filter. Not always a great (or fair) thing.

In reading/re-reading your post(s) I wonder IF maybe your sister really DOES suffer from some form of mental illness. If you really believe there's a danger she could wind up living on the streets, when she has no substance addictions, that's very telling. Has she had a thorough psych eval? Whatever I would tell you hinges on that. If she has and she's checked-out I stand by my original response. If she hasn't it might be a good idea to have her evaluated since she may need treatment and may need to be forced into it. If she needs treatment and doesn't get it this cycle will never end.

Good luck.

 

[celestialtimes]

Dani,

We all must grow up and face reality. Giving her what she needs when she needs it does not ever teach her to supposrt herself. 300 for rent really isn't a lot of money and granted times are tough right now, but let someone else bail her out...or figure it out on her own.

Maybe your sister is sick, maybe not. She odviously feels a bit of intitlement to everyone else taking care of her.

I think we all get the case of the blues sometime. But you get up every morning and work...pay your bills...why shouldn't she. Why is she your responsibility? Sure she is family, but sometimes giving only makes the problems worse.

The big question is...would she help you? Would you expect her to help you?

The whole BF and his kid thing...She can't claim head of the house hold. He can. But then the whole back child support...that's one to not touch with a 10 ft pole. I could go on for days...but that's a whole new thread.

I wouldn't do it. As a matter a fact, I've made it practice to not loan money...EVER. Money kills friendships and gets in the way of family.

I was on my own at 15...making 97 dollars a week picking up trash at the race track and paying 65 a week in rent. If it's one thing I learned very early in life...if there's a will there's way. I have been on my own ever since...I've added a husband, but I've always had a means to support myself. I never expect anyone to support me...

Theres's my 2 cents.

Hugs to you in your decision.

 

[pink_fortitude]

Dani, I think that you and DH are making the right decision to not loan her any more money. I know that this is hard for you, so I am sending lots and lots of hugs your way! She may get angry and she may manipulate, she may bad mouth you but HANG IN THERE! You are doing the right thing by creating boundaries and sticking to them, and that is helping her to realize she can't use you - you are her sister!!! ((((((((HUGS))))))))

I like everyone else's advice, too.

Missy

 

[mrsmel]

I have no words of wisdom, I just want to send you ((((((HUGS)))))). She's put you in a really tough position and I agree you should not give her any more money. As difficult as that is, I really believe that's the best course of action for both you and her. I know, easier said than done, but maybe this is the time that will be the turn-around for her. I'll be keeping both of you in my thoughts and sending good vibes. Hang in there!

anne

 

[melimcn]

Dani...
Cut....her....off....

There is nothing else you can do. Do not give her more money, do not offer to give her help of any sort. She needs to figure this out for herself.
She can call you to vent, but that's it. Do not extend yourself in any way. You have to close the door, and if she sees it open even a tiny crack, she's going to wedge further and further in.
She's taking advantage of your self-inflicted emotional guilt.
She needs to live in the real world, and the only thing you can do is throw her into head first.

Whatever happens to her will be HER fault, NOT YOURS. It's not your job to clean her up and get her back on her feet.

 

[carres1973]

Dani,

I agree with what the PPs have suggested. Stick to your guns and do not "lend" her money. I have a similar sibling who blames every thing that goes wrong in his life on his "traumatic" childhood. Like your sister, nothing is his fault. He will be 33 in January and is still pulling the same stuff. Be strong. Offer your sister emotional support (bet she will cut you short). It is difficult to accept but you need to realize that your sister may never change. This is the life she has chosen.

Good luck to you. I will keep your family in my thoughts.

Carrie

 

[goldenpath]

I have to say that when you keep helping people in all the time for the exact same type of help, there needs to be a stopping point and they need to learn:

1. Not to get themselves in the situation.
2. They need to fend for themselves.

I don't believe they will learn this if they are always bailed out.

That being said, I know you have helped her out in the past by giving her money. Have you ever loaned her money and has she ever repaid it? This could be a different kind of help - if you LOAN her money and she pays you back, then maybe she is trying to grow up. However, if she does not pay you back, never loan her money again. Not really sure, if I am making sense, I am just writing down my thoughts as they come into my head.

 

[dbelden1]

Thank you all for the support

I did call her last night to let her know my answer and no answer so I had to leave it on the machine that I wouldn't be sending any financial assistance. She had better put on her sweet face and have an honest talk with her landlord about her situation and work it out with him. That was a hard call to make and secretly thank God that I didn't have to do it directly to her... cop out I know, but...

I have "loaned" her money in the past and she has never repaid ANY of it. I have since lost track of the amounts... thousands over the years. which is why when she asked for a "loan" this time, I said "let's just call a spade a spade and call it giving you money" and that she "has never paid back any other loans in the past so why should this one be different?" to which she quickly replied that the whole Earned Income tax credit thing, to which I replied that I didn't think that was a possibility. I used to do Income Taxes for HR Block (as a 2nd job) 6 years ago, but can't remember what the criteria was for that whole situation. I want to believe that this is the time she turns things around and wonder if I would give her "just one more chance" that maybe it would be different this time... guess I will never know, but sadly believe as some have written that she will live this way for the rest of her life. which makes me very sad Encouragement is all I can offer her now.

I do know that she has sought assistance through various public agencies regarding her mental wellbeing. I do not believe that she is mentally ill (she was just here for my wedding in May and we had a great time), however, it is my belief that the weight of her situation is making her depressed and when she has a good day where she finds a job, BF, something that makes her feel good, she's happy... and vise versa... therefore justifying her self diagnosis of bi-polar (sometimes internet is not such a good thing). I would venture to guess that if she would put her nose to the grindstone, start taking employment seriously, start rebuilding a life, she would soon see that her so called "bi-polar" symptoms would disappear. Funny how when you are so low, money can purchase some semblence of happiness, in the short run anyway.

so, to all who are sending hugs, prayers and happy thoughts I greatly appreciate the support. I guess I was just so frustrated after her call that I did self impose a measure of guilt for the success I have had ON MY OWN! But you are all absoultly right, should I have given in there would definately have been a next time... As I told her 2 years ago... THAT was the LAST time!

thanks again!

 

[janiejoey]

Hi Dani,

Why don't you make her a member of your family. She can pay rent (probably sometimes). You have the advantage of keeping her close and protected and you don't have to send her money anymore. You can encourage her to get a job. Obviously she can't make it on her own, something just is not right about her. It's about two things, she goes on welfare or she goes to you. There are many different kinds of families now a days, and yours would be exceptional or unique. Perhaps you couldn't live with her or anyone else in the family for that matter, in which case, she should probably get help from the state. It's quite a delima, and (((((hugs))))) to you for that. Just a suggestion.

Hope things turn out for the best. Let us know please.

Janie

 

[SirenSongWoman]

I did call her last night to let her know my answer and no answer so I had to leave it on the machine that I wouldn't be sending any financial assistance. She had better put on her sweet face and have an honest talk with her landlord about her situation and work it out with him. That was a hard call to make and secretly thank God that I didn't have to do it directly to her... cop out I know, but...

I have "loaned" her money in the past and she has never repaid ANY of it. I have since lost track of the amounts... thousands over the years. which is why when she asked for a "loan" this time, I said "let's just call a spade a spade and call it giving you money" and that she "has never paid back any other loans in the past so why should this one be different?" to which she quickly replied that the whole Earned Income tax credit thing, to which I replied that I didn't think that was a possibility. I used to do Income Taxes for HR Block (as a 2nd job) 6 years ago, but can't remember what the criteria was for that whole situation. I want to believe that this is the time she turns things around and wonder if I would give her "just one more chance" that maybe it would be different this time... guess I will never know, but sadly believe as some have written that she will live this way for the rest of her life. which makes me very sad Encouragement is all I can offer her now.

I do know that she has sought assistance through various public agencies regarding her mental wellbeing. I do not believe that she is mentally ill (she was just here for my wedding in May and we had a great time), however, it is my belief that the weight of her situation is making her depressed and when she has a good day where she finds a job, BF, something that makes her feel good, she's happy... and vise versa... therefore justifying her self diagnosis of bi-polar (sometimes internet is not such a good thing). I would venture to guess that if she would put her nose to the grindstone, start taking employment seriously, start rebuilding a life, she would soon see that her so called "bi-polar" symptoms would disappear. Funny how when you are so low, money can purchase some semblence of happiness, in the short run anyway.

so, to all who are sending hugs, prayers and happy thoughts I greatly appreciate the support. I guess I was just so frustrated after her call that I did self impose a measure of guilt for the success I have had ON MY OWN! But you are all absoultly right, should I have given in there would definately have been a next time... As I told her 2 years ago... THAT was the LAST time!

thanks again!

If she doesn't have a real mental illness and it's her "situation" that's depressing her well, sister, join the club. A whole lot of us are depressed about our situations but we don't freeload off our parents, friends, and siblings. We get off our butts and take action. I agree with the others, NO MORE MONEY. She starts begging over the phone tell her "I'm hanging up NOW" then do it. I'm just glad she doesn't live anywhere near you. Talk about a blessing. She's able-bodied? Let her get a job like everyone else.

 

[cakebaker]

I did call her last night to let her know my answer and no answer so I had to leave it on the machine that I wouldn't be sending any financial assistance. She had better put on her sweet face and have an honest talk with her landlord about her situation and work it out with him. That was a hard call to make and secretly thank God that I didn't have to do it directly to her... cop out I know, but...

I have "loaned" her money in the past and she has never repaid ANY of it. I have since lost track of the amounts... thousands over the years. which is why when she asked for a "loan" this time, I said "let's just call a spade a spade and call it giving you money" and that she "has never paid back any other loans in the past so why should this one be different?" to which she quickly replied that the whole Earned Income tax credit thing, to which I replied that I didn't think that was a possibility. I used to do Income Taxes for HR Block (as a 2nd job) 6 years ago, but can't remember what the criteria was for that whole situation. I want to believe that this is the time she turns things around and wonder if I would give her "just one more chance" that maybe it would be different this time... guess I will never know, but sadly believe as some have written that she will live this way for the rest of her life. which makes me very sad Encouragement is all I can offer her now.

I do know that she has sought assistance through various public agencies regarding her mental wellbeing. I do not believe that she is mentally ill (she was just here for my wedding in May and we had a great time), however, it is my belief that the weight of her situation is making her depressed and when she has a good day where she finds a job, BF, something that makes her feel good, she's happy... and vise versa... therefore justifying her self diagnosis of bi-polar (sometimes internet is not such a good thing). I would venture to guess that if she would put her nose to the grindstone, start taking employment seriously, start rebuilding a life, she would soon see that her so called "bi-polar" symptoms would disappear. Funny how when you are so low, money can purchase some semblence of happiness, in the short run anyway.

so, to all who are sending hugs, prayers and happy thoughts I greatly appreciate the support. I guess I was just so frustrated after her call that I did self impose a measure of guilt for the success I have had ON MY OWN! But you are all absoultly right, should I have given in there would definately have been a next time... As I told her 2 years ago... THAT was the LAST time!

thanks again!

Good for you - stick to your guns & don't give her another cent. You did the right thing.

 

[dbelden1]

Hi Dani,

Why don't you make her a member of your family. She can pay rent (probably sometimes). You have the advantage of keeping her close and protected and you don't have to send her money anymore. You can encourage her to get a job. Obviously she can't make it on her own, something just is not right about her. It's about two things, she goes on welfare or she goes to you. There are many different kinds of families now a days, and yours would be exceptional or unique. Perhaps you couldn't live with her or anyone else in the family for that matter, in which case, she should probably get help from the state. It's quite a delima, and (((((hugs))))) to you for that. Just a suggestion.

Hope things turn out for the best. Let us know please.

Janie

Thanks Janie... fortunately or unfortunatly she does not qualify to for welfare because she has no kids, so there are no agencies that will help a single, able-bodied youngster that is CAPABLE, just not especially adept at working... any of the Federal, state or local agencies or charities that would help are so strapped due to all the financial turmoil these days they help the elderly, disabled, and children in that order. Which is how it should be IMHO!

We tried the living with me thing awhile back and it worked out OK when I was single (actually going through a divorce so was nice to have the extra support) and have offered to let her live with us now (even DH's suggestion which surprised the crap outta me!) but the one stipulation was that she would have to give up her dog. We couldn't have another one because we rent and landlord won't allow it. It was her choice to stay where she was. this was about a year ago I guess...

thanks for the support

 

[dbelden1]

If she doesn't have a real mental illness and it's her "situation" that's depressing her well, sister, join the club. A whole lot of us are depressed about our situations but we don't freeload off our parents, friends, and siblings. We get off our butts and take action. I agree with the others, NO MORE MONEY. She starts begging over the phone tell her "I'm hanging up NOW" then do it. I'm just glad she doesn't live anywhere near you. Talk about a blessing. She's able-bodied? Let her get a job like everyone else.

I agree! it doesn't help that it is very hard to watch someone you love struggle, but there DOES come a time when it becomes ridiculous. She is fully capable of doing anything she wants. She first wanted to be a CSI tech, but when that turned out to be too hard it seems like she just didn't have any ambition to be anything other than an entry level anything! She wants (and definately searches for) those good paying jobs, but who will hire someone that has had 15 jobs in the past 15 years? Most of those she has been fired from for lack of attendance (due to illness mostly - she is prone to sinus, ear and chest infections at the drop of a hat) and lack of productivity because she gets side tracked easily and can't or won't (probably more accurate) focus on the task at hand.

I am frustrated beyond words and so is the rest of the family! I don't want to loose track of her or let her slip into other chaos because she gets evicted, but do not know what to do...


PS to Janie's post: Also a serious consideration is that should she have moved in with us, we would probably NEVER get her to leave! I purposefully did not have children because I very much like my solitude with my new DH and the idea of having a third wheel so to speak of, while might be Ok in the short term, the long term possibility that she may never leave is a very scary thought!

thanks again for all the support

 

[Worknprogress]

Dani,
First of all, my heart goes out to you because I know how painful it can be when a person you love lives a destructive life.

My situation is a bit different than yours but maybe my story can help you "stick to your guns."

My 20-year old son is an addict. He, too, struggled after his father left the family when he was only 7. It wasn't the divorce that hurt my son, it was the fact that his father lost interest in him afterward.

I remarried a man that took my son under his wing and was an incredible stepfather to him but nonetheless, it didn't fill the void. My son started down a drug path junior year of high school, dropping out as your sister did, just a couple of months before graduation.

I had him in therapy when he was younger and all sorts of evaluations as he got older when it was obvious that he was really struggling.

What started with marijuana had become a full-blown heroine addiction by age 18. I spent the next year of his life, continuing to help and seek out the best care, etc. He had off and on jobs and I paid his car insurance when he was out of work, doctor bills, etc.

I did everything I could to keep him safe, even after he started stealing from us. I just thought I had to work harder to help him and I did everything humanly possible.

I didn't know it at the time - I had become his enabler.

I am telling you all of this because, until I stopped helping him, his behavior never changed. I have small children in my home and I could no longer help him at their expense. I evicted him from my home and gave him nothing but a meal here and there.

Sounds harsh, yes. But a recovering addict told me that I was not helping my son. By continuing to enable him I was "keeping him from feeling the pain he needed to feel to get help." Boy - that hit me like a ton of bricks.

So Dani, as hard as it was to say no, and believe me - I know that was hard on you. You did the right thing. Yes, she may end up homeless like my son did and she may get angry at you and cry to you and do whatever she needs to break you down to give her that help. Stay strong. It is what is best for her.

 

[Worknprogress]

By the way, after living homeless last winter for a few weeks, my son checked himself into detox and into a halfway house. He has had one relapse but got right back "into the program."