endurance weight training is useless.

B

Boybert

Cathlete
oh yeah, so this woman on a local board I frequent stated that high reps, lower weight is useless. Only heavy lifting and lower reps works. She's a personal trainer. Ummmm....I think that's a pile of something if you ask me. I hate when people make blanket comments like that. I replied that endurance training is quite beneficial, along w/ other rotations, and maybe she should check out Cathe. Hmph.

"you miss 100% of the shots you never take"

Debbie
 
I agree with you. Just recently I read in Men's Fitness magazine (hubby subscribes too) that doing endurance first one day and then slow and heavy next day will increase your muscle mass big time.

Charlotte~~
 
I think Cathe's endurance workouts are heavier than the "high rep/low weight" workouts that most people refer to.

When I think "high rep/low weight," I think of Margaret Richard, or some of Karen Voight, who use 3-5# weights and LOTS of reps (upwards of 20) per exercise. I would agree that they have limited use as strength workouts, and one's time might be better spent working out heavier and a shorter period of time.

But it also depends on your goals. They do burn calories, and sometimes seem to have a cardio effect (expecially Voight's "Great Weighted Workout," that often has you moving while doing upper body work). And I think that they are useful for getting some definition by burning fat. (And they may be more effective for younger folks, who have the benefits of their age on their side, and can keep muscles in shape by doing less than we not-so-young folks have to for the same results). But I personally wouldn't do them exclusively, nor would I use them as my main strength workouts.
 
Also, different people have different conceptions about what is "endurance" and what is not. Some of our fellow exercisers on this forum consider ALL of Cathe's workouts, except for possibly "Slow and Heavy" as "endurance," while others would put fewer workouts (like PH, ME, etc.) in this category.

"Endurance" and "high reps/low weights" are not necessarily the same animal, depending on who is using the terms. So, depending on what the person on the other board used as terminology (did she specifically say "endurance," or just "high reps/low weights" ) and how she perceives these two terms, you and she could be referring to the same or different things.

(I'm on Prednisone, which makes my brain, and then my fingers, chatty, so forgive the gabbing!).
 
kathryn, you are thought provoking! Basically she said that high rep/low weight is useless. I think she defines anything besides your heaviest you can lift being useless. She advocates a split routine that is THE only way to get results. I guess I just have beef w/ people that think in only black & white, you know? She tells everyone who is having trouble with motivation to do her routine and they WILL see results. If they aren't seeing results on her program, they are doing something wrong. That kind of thinking...


"you miss 100% of the shots you never take"

Debbie
 
She tells everyone who is having trouble
>with motivation to do her routine and they WILL see results.
>If they aren't seeing results on her program, they are doing
>something wrong. That kind of thinking...
>
>
That is annoying, and sounds more like arrogance and self-promotion that constructive discussion.

I can't imagine that she would have many beginner clients. She doesn't seem like she would be open to them. Or to anything except "her" system.

I too think heavy, split routines are the MOST effective for most people, but that doesn't mean that it's the only way to go. Especially to avoid plateaus from doing the same type of training all the time. Doing an endurance workout once in a while can give the body a "head's up."
 
Very silly comment from that trainer...Kathryn always has good points for these type of posts and I do agree with her...:)...I will say something from my recent experience. I started Freestyle training on my lower body 4 weeks ago. (I don't know how you feel about this training Kathryn) Freestyle is more no/low weight and high reps, also 4-6 days a week. It is designed for the pear shape that has trouble with bulking up with heavy weight sessions. I have never been much of a measurer but I know I have firmed my legs and lost a bit by the way my pants feel. I will also add my running has improved as I feel stronger now when running. I use some of Cathe's endurance workouts 2 days a week, PH,ME,MM,LL,PLB, and GS legs. I only use 70% of the weight I used before when I do those workouts. For me personally...I think the heavy weight method worked better for me when I was younger....:)...Carole
 
And sometimes you just need a heavy wt break.The best exercise is the ones you enjoy while others may hate it if you like it you'll do it.It has never been a one program fits all.I never have liked people thinking their way is the right way and I agree she doesn't seem open to what her clients may need.
 
Omigosh I got so toned and tight just using power hour and running, a few summers ago. That's pure endurance baby.

I like to lift heavier for my upper body to bulk up my little Olive Oyl arms and shoulders. But I have made the amazing discovery that limiting my barbell to 30 pounds, keeps my lower body strong but my thighs and rear end just the right size. More than 30# and my thighs and glutes are bursting out of my jeans.

I loaned power hour to a friend and may just have to hunt her down and steal it back.

That trainer is way, way overgeneralizing.

Bella
:)
 
I got the first dent in my arms using PH, which is an endurance workout. Also, lately I've been using GS-Legs with db's ranging from 3 to 10 pounds, and L&G with db's ranging from 8's to 12's -- much, much lighter than I'm used to doing. My legs have a nicer shape working them out this way than when I matched or went heavier than Cathe's weights.

Pinky
 
It just goes to show you that some trainers don't know jack.

Actually -- the health related components of fitness are:
-- cardiorespirator fitness
-- body composition
-- flexibility
-- absolute strength
-- dynamic strength (muscular endurance)
This is according to the Cooper Institute which knows a little something about fitness.

All of these things are important in order to be "fit". So we should be paying attention to ALL of the above. Absolute strength AND muscular endurance are BOTH important. You can't replace one with the other.

Shonie
 
I started Freestyle training on my lower body 4 weeks ago. (I
>don't know how you feel about this training Kathryn)

I actually think doing something like that for the lower body, and a heavier/lower rep workout for the upper body, would work really well. I did a Slim Series rotation for two weeks when I first got it, and that's very similar to Freestyle. It was nice for my lower body, but I felt the need for a heavier upper body workout after the first week, and my upper body joints (particularly my elbows) didn't like doing upper body low weight/high rep work so often (about 4 times a week, not counting the lower-body-only workout and the stretch workout).

For me, heavy works better for my upper body (I tend to be scrawny on top if I don't workout), and higher reps, lower weights work well for my lower body(especially if the moves are effective functional moves like 1-legged deadlifts and squats and "reaching lunges" like in Core Secrets, which work well for me even without high weights OR high reps). One lower body exception on me is that my BOOTAY needs heavier work to stay "up-and-at-'em"!
 
This thread shows an intersting contrast between the "my way is the only way" trainer, and those of us who have found that YMMV really applies, like Bella discovering her 30# limit for best lower body results, and both of us figuring out that we need heavier work for our upper bodies.

I think our best personal trainer is ourselves! Learn all you can. Read. Experiment. Share ideas with others and try them out. Use your experience, and your brain, and your body's own wisdom to find out what works for you.
 
She is talking about "useless", but in what terms? I think she is only considering the visual aspects of results. Even if it were useless visually wise, there are still other benefits to endurance workouts. I have known people than only train "Slow and Heavy" style, but you get them to do an endurance workout and it kills them. They simply can't do it because they lack endurance. So, like someone else said, endurance and strength are two different components of fitness (beside the others), and one cannot be substituted by the other. Combined, yes, but not one totally neglected. That is just my opinion. It is not the same to lift a can of milk, than to hold it for half an hour.
 
>
>For me, heavy works better for my upper body (I tend to be
>scrawny on top if I don't workout), and higher reps, lower
>weights work well for my lower body(especially if the moves
>are effective functional moves like 1-legged deadlifts and
>squats and "reaching lunges" like in Core Secrets, which work
>well for me even without high weights OR high reps). One
>lower body exception on me is that my BOOTAY needs heavier
>work to stay "up-and-at-'em"!
>
>
I feel the same way as my upper body seems to respond best to heavy, but I am trying a freestyle shoulder routine for a few weeks just to see. As females my family tend to get thick arms...I am just so curious and I know that changing things up can be a good thing. I'll see how my joints do...any pain and Kathryn, you know I'll stop...:)...Carole
 
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