Dog training

dss62467

dss62467

Cathlete
All this discussion of dog challenges has made me think about trying again on Cricket's issues. She's my rebellious child, so I've contacted a trainer in the area. He does one-on-one training and is certified by IACP and APDT. She had PetSmart classes when she was a puppy, but that was just a big waste of money. The dude is coming to my house next week to meet her and give an evaluation.

I was looking on his website and he's a certified remote collar specialist, so I looked into what that is. Pretty much what I thought. Has anyone used a remote collar? I had a collar that was supposed to spray citronella when Cricket barked, but because the fur on her neck was so thick, it hardly ever went off. I really didn't want to shave the fur there because she's just so pretty. Apparently you can get these collars that shock, vibrate, or give different tones. I get apprehensive about shock - even though I know it's very low-level. Of course, it will hurt her a lot less than she hurts me when she bites me when I try to get her calmed down. It's my equivalent of a slap across the face to stop hysterics. I grab her face to get her attention.

I'll see what this dog specialist can do for her first, I guess.
 
It's not the same thing but my brother and his wife got Invisible Fence around their property AND a series of Invisible Fence devices for inside, which makes certain areas of the house out of bounds to their three rambunctious dogs. They don't come into the living room or my brother's basement Man Cave, where my brother's beloved cat, Chewy (the only pet who doesn't chew!) goes to be left alone. My sister-in-law said she'd had enough after the two biggest dogs ate their sofa.
 
I've heard about those too. The cats have many places to go to get away from the dogs, and the dogs aren't destructive....so that won't solve my problem. Outside it could be good, because Cricket insists on running off to the neighbors. I'd rather see if I could get her to stay by calling her back, though. Invisible fence seems pretty expensive.
 
This is my opinion of shock collars. Everyone has to decide what is best for their fur kid. I took my boxer to a trainer who used shock collars. I purchased a top of the line collar for $350, and put it on my boxer for one class. I was instructed to hit the button when he didn't follow a command. I didn't notice any reaction from my boxer when I hit the button. I did notice by the end of the class, my boxer looked stressed beyond anything I had ever seen.

When I got home from class, I put the collar on my arm and hit the button. I threw the collar across the room because the shock was VERY painful. I never picked that collar up again, or took my boy back to that trainer. I called my vet and asked for recommendations for a reputable behaviorist.
I found a trainer who used positive reinforcement for training. Not painful shocks, or harsh repramands. She cost $300 for one session, but one was all I needed. She put together exercises that reinforced good behavior with praise and games. My boxer responded immediately to the exercises given. Best $300 I ever spent.

I'm so ashamed I put my boxer through that pain. What's worse, he held it together every time I zapped him. I threw that collar away. I would never pass that along to another animal.
 
We have looked into the invisible fence thing, and it is too expensive for us right now. They quoted us $2000.00 just for the yard, not including the collars, training, and anything indoors.
Not an option for us at this time in our economy, I am afraid...
 
I'm with Cynthia on this one. I would call and cancel that appointment and search for trainers who use more positive methods. Think about it - do you learn best when you are punished or when you are encouraged? Why would you punish your dog for being who she is?

I have a friend who has a very wayward visula. This dog is dominate and very aggressive. They went the e-collar route. I kept my mouth shut as this was their dog. I visited their house not too long ago, and I'll tell you I was never so happy to leave a house. This dog knew he could not dominate his people or he would be hurt, but he certainly tried to intimidate me, and I do not get intimidated by dogs easily (I will break up dog fights at dog parks). This was the worst behaved dog I've ever seen, and I wondered why until it struck me - the major issue with punishment training is that the dog never learns what is acceptable behavior. Only what not to do, and only when the human with the remote is in the room. And a more sensitive dog can be majorly scarred from shock collars. I've seen that happen too. There are much better ways to train dogs.

Cricket doesn't seem that bad. I'm curious as to how old Buster is I would guess he's under a year. Honestly, Cricket's behavior seems more like a bratty sibling than anything. I would deal with her behavior like you would a bratty child. When she steals Buster's toys, give her a sharp "No!" and remove her to another room where she is alone (no people, no dogs) for about 5 minutes. When she plays nice, praise her to high heavens and treat her. Same with the barking at Buster when he's trying to eat. Pick up her food so the other dogs cannot get to it, and put her in a different room.

I would start NILF with her (and all of your dogs - it's a good practice). It's means - Nothing In Life is Free (google it - you'll find all sorts of ideas) - they need sit quietly before you will feed them (or lay down - a trick for their reward of food). Before you let them out, they need to sit... It lets them understand that everything good comes from you, so if they listen to you - they get good things. Dogs do what works - make what works for the dogs, something that works for you.
 
Last edited:
Conni said:
We have looked into the invisible fence thing, and it is too expensive for us right now. They quoted us $2000.00 just for the yard, not including the collars, training, and anything indoors.
Not an option for us at this time in our economy, I am afraid...
Click to expand...

There's a huge problem with invisible fences - mainly in that the dog CAN get to the other side and WILL if the reward is high enough. If they really want that dog/cat/Squirrel... on the other side, then they will risk the shock. And once they learn that it's a quick shock and that's it, they tend to go through time and time again. Unfortunately, the reward to get back tends to be not as high, so they end up running around free. Although I do know dogs who will go back and forth.
 
Thanks! This trainer is certified in remote collar training, but doesn't use it as his main training technique. He tailors the training to each individual dog. I was actually asking about the collar to see if it would be an option to use on my own. I wouldn't use the shock option, but there are some that use tones. I dunno, I guess if I can't get her to listen to my voice, a collar isn't going to work any differently, eh?

Cricket is a brat, but it's not just because of Buster. She was like that before he came around. I'll check out NILF. Thanks for explaining the acronym - it was not at all what I was thinking.
 
Seriously, once you get her to listen to you - and if you follow NLIF it should not take long for her to learn that if she listens, she gets good things - you may not even need the trainer. She's definitely a prime candidate for it. I just don't like to see dogs shocked or choked when other methods work sooo much better. I would still consider another trainer - one who focuses mainly on positive methods. None of the good trainers I know would consider getting certified in shock collar training. Certifications in the dog training industry don't mean a lot. So you can't go by those.
 
I'm in agreement with Christine and Cynthia on this one.

IMO, shock training (aversive training) does nothing more than punish your dog for being a dog. I really hate it.

NILF is great. Training with positive reinforcement methods will give you MUCH better, and more consistent (if YOU are consistent) results in the long run.
 
ok - the collar idea is out. But I'm going with this trainer, I've been Googling him and he's got a great reputation. Very well trained and does do positive reinforcement. I think just because he's certified in the collar, doesn't mean it's what he uses. It looks as though he learned it as an option, since he just got the certification this past year and has been in business for quite awhile.

It's a free consultation in my home, so I'll see what's what. There are other options in the area too. I hope he's cute. ha ha
 
I'm not a fan of e-shock collars or other forms of training that seem more like punishment than positive reinforcement of good behavior. I've only had two dogs: a male yellow lab and and my current dog, a male golden retriever. Both are wonderful breeds and great pets. Males can be a bit headstrong, especially when they are still intact. But my husband and I have found that we have gotten farther in getting good behavior by being firm but not mean in our corrections of bad dog behavior and plentiful in praise of good dog behavior.
~michelle
 
dss62467 said:
I think just because he's certified in the collar, doesn't mean it's what he uses. It looks as though he learned it as an option, since he just got the certification this past year and has been in business for quite awhile.
Click to expand...



I'm not trying to get into an argument. Why would he become certified if he didn't use this technique?
 
I don't know what exactly the issues are that you think need to be addressed with Cricket but from what I gather it does not have much to do with dog "training". What you may want to look for is a certified dog behaviorist.

As someone who has received certifications as a dog trainer I can tell you that those certifications mean nothing, they are really easy to get.

I am not a big fan of remote collars, depending on the dog's personality it can have very undesireable results. I have used a citronella collar on one of my dogs with mixed results, I ended up tossing the collar and had much better results with that dog with positive reinforcement, discipline and consistency. I am a big proponent of NILF, when done consistently it will have much better result over time than any remote collar.

I don't know why the trainer would get a certification with remote collars unless he plans to use it. That being said though, just because he has additional knowledge in an area doesn't mean that he will necessarily push it and use it on every single dog. I guess that is what a consultation is for. But before you hire him, I would ask him for references of previous or current clients and I would take the time to actually contact those people and ask them what they thought, what their initial problems were and what the results were.

When I hired a private dog trainer for my first dog 12 years ago I was so impressed by all the certifications and he was pretty convincing in his presentation and marketing. I wish I had asked for references because he was not a good trainer at all and later I met a lot of people who had similar complaints.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
fit44 said:
This is my opinion of shock collars. Everyone has to decide what is best for their fur kid. I took my boxer to a trainer who used shock collars. I purchased a top of the line collar for $350, and put it on my boxer for one class. I was instructed to hit the button when he didn't follow a command. I didn't notice any reaction from my boxer when I hit the button. I did notice by the end of the class, my boxer looked stressed beyond anything I had ever seen.

When I got home from class, I put the collar on my arm and hit the button. I threw the collar across the room because the shock was VERY painful. I never picked that collar up again, or took my boy back to that trainer. I called my vet and asked for recommendations for a reputable behaviorist.
I found a trainer who used positive reinforcement for training. Not painful shocks, or harsh repramands. She cost $300 for one session, but one was all I needed. She put together exercises that reinforced good behavior with praise and games. My boxer responded immediately to the exercises given. Best $300 I ever spent.

I'm so ashamed I put my boxer through that pain. What's worse, he held it together every time I zapped him. I threw that collar away. I would never pass that along to another animal.
Click to expand...
Well, after reading this I would NEVER put one of those things on a furbaby. Man, that trainer was a sadist. I know you feel guilty about it but you meant well. I'm just glad everything worked out for you both. Man, that's really awful.
 
Conni said:
We have looked into the invisible fence thing, and it is too expensive for us right now. They quoted us $2000.00 just for the yard, not including the collars, training, and anything indoors.
Not an option for us at this time in our economy, I am afraid...
Click to expand...

Wow. It costs THAT much? I couldn't do it, either.
 
I watched the episode of Dogtown featuring the Michael Vick pit pulls. If there's hope for them (without shock collars), there's hope for any dog, I think. I've been watching Dogtown A LOT, since I first heard about it here.
 
hiitdogs said:
I don't know what exactly the issues are that you think need to be addressed with Cricket but from what I gather it does not have much to do with dog "training". What you may want to look for is a certified dog behaviorist.
Click to expand...

Thanks - this guy's website says he's a behaviorist too. But how would I find others in my area?
 
Try him out - he may be fine. Just watch how he interacts with your dog and how your dog interacts with him. There should be no fear and no anxiety on Cricket's part. The trainer should be using gentle but firm instructions. You need to feel comfortable. You'll do the right thing.

As for finding a behaviorist and/or trainer - I've found the best way is to research the doggy daycares in your area and find the best ones (reviews, etc - there is a lot of information on the web). Most of the good doggy daycares have behaviorists and trainers on staff, and if they don't have one that is specific to YOUR issues, they know all of them in your area and can recommend one or more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Our Newsletter

Get awesome content delivered straight to your inbox.

Top