Cutting back on sugar, flour,...

L

lay

Active Member
What is the benefit of cutting back on things like sugar and flour? (I say cutting back because I won't ever cut it out entirely)

Would it be at all beneficial to cut back on them during the week, but be more lenient on weekends? I ask this because at work I don't snack as much on junk (although I'm not at all perfect!) as I do on weekends (I eat out more, and say, treat myself to popcorn at the movies). I think I could make an effort to eat better at work if it's healthier.
Thanks for ANY input!
 
Eat, drink and be healthy....

http://www.plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Chick's Rule!

Hi, Lay, this is a much discussed topic around here. Sugar can be pretty empty in calories and white flour is not as nutritious as whole wheat flour, it's true. However, they can definitely be part of a healthy diet and I think you are correct to plan to use them in moderation.

In a different post I used the example of white flour tortillas I buy at Costco. They are fresh and they are made with soybean oil. They are terrific. I use whole wheat tortillas a lot and I am lucky to be able to shop at Wild Oats, but I will not buy the brands that contain partially hydrogenated oils (shortening) because trans fats are so bad for you. Here is a case where a more processed food is a better choice. Since white flour tortillas have less fiber, I usually serve beans, a wonderful source of fiber, to balance out the fiber which has been taken away. Most white flour products are enriched so vitamins and minerals are not a problem.

I have read some posts by people who treat sugar and flour as if they are poison and that's abusurd. Table sugar is very low in calories (16 per tsp) and doesn't spike blood sugar very drastically at all. Your body cannot differentiate between different types of carbohydrates. Fructose, lactose, sucrose are all pretty much used the same. You do need to read labels because added sugar adds calories and calories will make you fat if you exceed the amount your body needs. Beware of sugar as the first or second ingredient. That means there's alot in a recipe. I also try to make sure that there are relatively few ingredients in a list. I get as much organic food as I can. I eat whole grains at two out of three of my daily meals. My cereal is high in fiber. So when the question of whether or not to eat a white flour product comes up, it's easy to say yes. Balance, balance, balance.

Did you know potatoes are much worse than white flour when it comes to your blood sugar going up and up and up? There's a trick though. Eat them in a meal with an acid like vinegar or lemon (I am thinking vinegarette here) or eat them with beans which do not spike your blood sugar and allow all the carbs in your meal to go into your blood stream more slowly. One way I can eat my family to eat grilled salmon once a week is to serve the fish with french fries! I eat only a few and they are yummy!

The idea that there's any food out there that cannot be consumed in moderation is silly. I love pasta. I can eat whole wheat just fine. My family won't though. And I love white pasta. Why would I not eat it once or twice a week when I eat brown rice, rye, barley, whole wheat, whole oats and an abundance of other nutritous whole foods? The beauty of living this healthy lifestyle is I can eat what I want. I choose to consume some things (like butter and cheese) in moderation but there they are in my fridge! There's only one rule: Eat the good stuff when you eat the good stuff. No crying over some indulgance that didn't pass muster!

Bobbi http://www.pemberley.com/emote/confident2.gif
 
RE: Eat, drink and be healthy....

You're entitled to your opinion and differing opinions are what makes a market as they say, but it has been my experience as someone who lost a large amount of weight and has kept it off that ELIMINATING white flour and sugar, at least during the time you are trying to lose weight, is an optimal step to take. I didn't make this up myself. I discovered it through research into the glycemic index and eating plans which are designed to take it into account.

I lost 77 pounds very quickly without any hunger problems or feelings of deprivation (after the first few days). I can only attribute that to the likelihood that the blood sugar level is kept relatively constant through non-consumption of these items. We can kick this back and forth all day but the fact remains, at least in my case, that eliminating these products enabled me to lose the weight I needed to lose. Do I treat them as poison now? No. I eat very small amounts infrequently and will continue to do so as long as my weight holds steady.
 
RE: Eat, drink and be healthy....

FUnny I'm with you.. find it much easier to give it up (white flour and sugar) altogether - for me it's easier -- less judgement calls and less temptation!

I started this 2 weeks ago and in addition have been craving more veggies.

Check out the clean eating threads - and also Cathe has discussed clean eating quite a bit too.

I know they say eating is 70% of it.

Good luck
 
I agree with Bobbi wholeheartedly that just about anything in moderation is fine. It's when you start eating an unbalanced, overabundance of one thing or a few things that you tend to have problems. Try to rotate your diet and not eat the same old stuff over and over. I personally limit sugars and processed foods because as an allergy patient, they don't agree with me. But allergies or no, the less "processed" foods are, the easier for your body to break down and utilize. An apple will be better than a candy bar, organic whole-grain breads better than processed white bread, etcetera. If you eat ALOT of sugar and white flour, I think you will find it is good to shake up your system and substitute other things for awhile. You probably are getting more than you need. Keep it simple, see how it works. Just my two and a half cents. :)
 
Actually, I find that if I eat refined carbs at all, that I want them more. I think some folks are like that. Also, I'm the personality type where it's "all or nothing". I couldn't quit smoking by cutting back. I *had* to go cold turkey or I wouldn't have made it. Same with refined junk. I've been without refined carbs for about 2 weeks now, and so I'm not craving the choc. chip cookies my DH made this weekend. I'm not going to call it an addiction or anything. I don't know why I react this way, but I do.

OTOH, my DH does not have this problem. He likes sweets, but doesn't crave them. He can take them or leave them. I wouldn't even say that he eats sweets in moderation. He just doesn't *think* about it all the time like I do. If I eat sweets then I want them all the time.

You sound like you can eat cleanly for the week and then splurge on the weekends. Maybe you are someone who can handle the moderation thing. If you choose to go this way (and I would if I were like my DH) then eating healthy is a matter of cutting back on sat. fat and highly processed foods and watching caloric intake. This way, a treat once in a while is something you can probably do for a lifetime.

You're probably gonna get lots of answers to this question. This is JMHO. Robin.
 
That is quite an accomplisment, K60! I applaud you! I am not trying to be argumentative. Sugar definitely has it's problems due to it's empty calories and it's over abundance in the food supply.

From a strictly scientific standpoint, there is no difference in how the body responds to any type of carbohydrate. And eliminating sugar and white flour is certainly not a health risk.
Since I try to minimize my exposure to processed foods, the amount of sugar in my diet is probably fine and I am aware that it is everywhere, even in my very healthy and hearty breakfast cereals!

I will preach moderation until I am blue in the face, however. I think people who can give up nutrients for the long haul are very rare indeed! I could not do it and would not want to. I think the main problem our society has is the over-consumtion of food, fast food, processed food, sugar, flour. Too many calories make you fat, obesity leads to diabetes, and so on. I love whole grains. I just don't feel the necessity to completely eliminate a few less nutrient dense foods that I love. For those who do, more power to them. Lay wanted to know the benefits of cutting out flour and sugar. It reduces your overall caloric intake. As someone once weighed a hundred pounds and had a long list of food that shouldn't be consumed, I see red flags when someone says to not eat certain foods! Never say never; just choose well! http://www.plauder-smilies.de/happy/wink.gif

Bobbi
 
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-02 AT 10:46PM (Est)[/font][p]Hi all!

I'm going to butt in and offer my opinion. Isn't that special of me. You all are looking at this post like, yeah right!

Any who, I'm another one for moderation here. I don't look at any food as "bad" food. Too much or too little of any food is "bad" food. So, it's more the amount than the food.

My own personal opinion is that diets are just way too complicated. I know that I do follow a rule here. If I have a physical craving, I eat it. If I have an emotional craving, I need to understand what triggers are causing me to have it and deal with the issue. I had to learn the difference between the two. It's too easy to target an emotional craving and call it a physical one. Some of them act the same, the mind can be a very powerful tool. That's why diet is really about you as a person and coming to terms with who you are and what you want than anything else.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there isn't science behind it, there is. I just know that it's all too easy to find a "bad" guy or a pseudo physical response and call it something else instead of dealing with the root cause, our emotions.

Shoot, today I ate a candy bar, a Heath bar to be exact. I haven't had a Heath bar in years. Why? I just needed one today. I ate it, I enjoyed it, it had 52% of its calories from fat, and I just don't care to have another. Why? I don't know, but it's ok for me to do that. I guess I'm just to dog gone old not too.

Another thing I've found out. I had my gall bladder removed and I have to be very careful about what I eat. Fat, sugar, and fruit are HUGE no nos, it'll make me sicker than a dog. But, if I eat this because of a physical craving, I'm ok. If I eat because I emotionally want it, I get sick. There is science to it and I'm just too lazy to figure it out. But, it is VERY IMPORTANT to listen to the queues from your body and know what they are telling you.

Just my humble opinion.

Keta. :D

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I'm with You, Robin!!!

Hey Robin,
I could have written your post, cuz it describes me and my dh to a T!!!!!! I, like you, am 'all or nothing'....and if I allow myself sweets for dessert or something, then it won't be long before I am eating sweets for bfast, lunch, dinner, AND btwn meal snacks!!! Seriously! I've proven this to myself countless times over and over again during the past several years, until I recently got brave enough to try giving them up altogether. These past 2 weeks of completely cutting them out of my diet have been heavenly, because it is like I've taken a weight off my shoulders---the weight of trying to control my intake of sweets. For me, it is ever so much easier to just NOT eat them. Non-issue. End of story.:)
My dh, like yours, is also "Mr. Moderation". I have no idea how people can be like that, LOL!!!
So, my opinion is that this is a very individual thing for different people. To people who can handle sweets in moderation, I say "more power to 'em"!!!! But it's truly a relief for me to finally know & accept the fact that I sure can't!!!
Deb
 
RE: I'm with You, Robin!!!

Hi, Keta! Of course we want to know what you have to say! I agree with you about the emotional eating. I have done it a million times, craved something to eat which was really about feeling stressed or tired or sad than about wanting a food per se. I finally adopted the attitude that food is to be loved and enjoyed the way I enjoy my fitness program and my life! I had on of my favorite cookies with a glass of milk as an afternoon snack yesterday! Mmmm!

I do shake my head at some of these young woman with their compulsive attitudes about food. This is why Cathe never gives specifics when it comes to nutrition! I like to stay with the mainstream nutrition experts, preferably scientists and doctors!

I heard yesterday on a moring news show that obesity has now surpassed smoking as the number one medical cost. That's sad! I love this fit lifestyle. The exercise, the nutrition, it's so interesting and fun! I also love that there are so many ways to do it and as K60 said, we are all entitled to our opinion! What's important is we are healthy and happy!
Bobbi http://www.plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Chick's Rule!
 
>
>Another thing I've found out.
>I had my gall bladder
>removed and I have to
>be very careful about what
>I eat. Fat, sugar,
>and fruit are HUGE no
>nos, it'll make me sicker
>than a dog. But,
>if I eat this because
>of a physical craving, I'm
>ok. If I eat
>because I emotionally want it,
>I get sick. There
>is science to it and
>I'm just too lazy to
>figure it out. But,
>it is VERY IMPORTANT to
>listen to the queues from
>your body and know what
>they are telling you.
>

Keta,

I'm scheduled to have my gall bladder removed in April. I had an attack about 5 years ago, but I was pregnant at the time so I couldn't do anything about it. I haven't had an attack since. HOWEVER, I guess these things are hereditary because NO ONE of 6 total in my family has a gall bladder - stones and attacks everywhere. That's why I got another ultrasound and they found some stones so before I go to the emergency room w/ an attack, I decided to just get it out. Sorry about the long story! Anyway, if you don't mind my asking, what were your circumstances, prevention or desperation? Is it easier to gain weight after removal? Thanks so much for any info!

Julie
 
I wasn't sure where, exactly, to stick these comments in for this topic....

I'm one of the all or nothing people. I do wish some of you balanced people would help me with the psychology of this. I went for 6 months with NO dessert. Then I had dessert on thanksgiving then none til christmas well you get the picture. Lately I've fallen off the wagon and I find myself eating dessert every night. And guess what, a couple of pounds has creeped back on, all around my waist where I hate it most.

So yesterday I was reading K60's topic about loosing weight and cutting out sugar and flour. Not feeling sorry for herself, just doing it and how she had steady weight loss with no plateaus. And I thought, well, geez, that's how it was for me (although I only lost 25#) So this morning I woke up with the resolve to try to stop feeling sorry for myself and to stop fooling myself about being able to control the dessert thing and just "suck up and do it" (I think those were K60's words) And I know that sugar isn't the devil and balance is the best approach, but it just doesn't seem to work for me.

But OH how I envy you people who can eat one and stop, or take it or leave it.

I guess i didn't add anything new, just wanted to thank you all for an interesting and informative discussion. Its nice to be here.

-joy
 
Hi Julie:

I only had one attack that sent me to the emergency room too and two weeks later, it was outta there.

I haven't had a problem with weight. I've had problems with absorbing any nutrients from my food. There was a really scary time there that my body wasn't absorbing anything for a month and you could tell. I got pasty white, weak, sick, and just drained. I had blood tests, stool tests, ultra sounds and now they want to send me for a lower GI. That has me scared to death!

My stomach hasn't adapted yet and I don't know if it ever will. It's not that common to my knowledge, but it is possible. After I had mine removed, digestion is now a very delicate process that I have to be extremely careful with.

Keta. :D

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Just because you decide to give up or cut back on refined sugar and flour doesn't mean you can't have healthty desserts. I've recently decided that I need to eat better and my biggest weakness would be sweets. Though I will still eat sweets that have refined ingredients from time to time, the bulk of my snacks will be whole grain, minimally processed items. I recently made brownies that were totally healthy( whole wheat flour, sweetened with molasses, carob powder...you get the picture. No, they didn't taste like regular brownies but because I'm looking for a change in my life they tasted great to me and fortunately to my kids(I'm trying to wean them off sugar as well).

Again you have to make your own choices, but because there are so mnay alternatives out there, if you do decide to totally cut out something you don't have to feel deprived.

Rockette
 
Hi, Joy. My husband actually laughs at the idea of me pushing moderation since I can be very compulsive in very many ways. :) The thing is it probably isn't sugar or flour per se that causes someone to lose control while eating a food. It's more of an emotional issue and getting to the bottom of the issue could be the key to ending emotional eating. Some people are definitely more sensitive and have issues with insulin. I read Andrew Weil's book Eating Well for Optimum Health and he uses the glycemic index. I think it is very valuable. Keeping blood sugar level is smart. You'll feel better if you do. I contend it can be done with a little white flour, white rice and some sugar in the diet.
Just a little.
I minimize white flour and sugar but it's impossible to eliminate them entirely without drastically changing my diet. I was madly in love with a yogurt that had no added sugar; some have tons. It had some fruit concentrate which is, yes, sugar in the form of fructose, but it was barely sweet and really wonderful. So of course, they discontinued it and I can find it nowhere! So I switched to an organic one which has a little added sugar, but not much. I can live with that. Also when I go out with my husband to an Italian resturant, I eat white pasta because there aren't any that offer whole wheat even though I like it. I eat very small portions and bring the leftovers home.

You can acheive balance, Joy! My main thing is I eat to fuel this body which runs 20 miles a week, does a Cathe cardio or two, plus weight training, a little yoga and Pilates to round things out! I like to fuel up with whole grains and fruits and veggies but I know that it's ok to indulge a little too!

However you manage your diet, love it and enjoy all life has to offer! It's what works for you that is important!

Bobbi http://www.plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Chick's Rule!
 
Roxette, I read in Health mag last night about an ice cream sandwich with 130 calories and 2 grams of fat which they desribed as creamy and good. I saw them at the store and skipped 'em becuase such products usually disappoint but I am going to try them. I will let you know if they're worthwile! Look for Silhouttes's Skinny Cow brand.

Bobbi http://www.plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Chick's Rule!
 
Bobby, there was a thread awhile back on the FF nutrition board re: the Skinny Cow ice cream stuff. Everyone loved them!! I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Robin.
 
Thanks Bobbi and Rockette,

Well, clearly my problem with sweets/dessert is emotional. Some of it comes from learning the wrong thing at a very young age. I mean, my father is exactly the same way. The old expression "more is caught than taught" is certainly true.

I love my DOAD (dear old adorable dad) but my my....
For example, I can remember him making pancakes at 10pm on a Sunday night because he was "going on a diet on Monday morning and couldn't eat them any more."

Even now, on Thanksgiving for example, he is first to want to eat dessert, takes a large piece (correction, the LARGEST piece) and then has seconds. After that he agonizes over the amount he has eaten. My mother, on the other hand, is always pointing out to him that he shouldn't eat the dessert, or the seconds. Its almost like he does it to defy authority.

Oh a psychotherapist could spend a very long time with me over this.

I'll probably never get over the desire to eat EVERY SINGLE COOKIE, but in the meantime, I think I will try to make choices as Rockette says. I know that my current binging has a lot to do with some current stress that should end by March month end.

-joy
 
That's a tough one but all learned behaviors can be un-learned and I think those of us who do manage to be moderate have learned lots of tricks to deal with things like Thanksgiving! During the Holidays, I increase my exercise slightly because I know there will be all sorts of food I usually don't have to face and I know I am going to eat some of them. I also have been known to have a piece of pie or Christmas cookies INSTEAD of a healthy lunch but once it's over I return to my regular eating habits and sigh a big sigh of relief. Until Valentine's day!:)

I have to watch myself because I tend to equate every morsel I
eat with the exercise I have done. But I remind myself that a 200 calorie cookie doesn't cancel out two miles of a run any more than a tuna sandwich does! Only if I exceed the number of calories my body needs in a day will I store any of that as fat! Do you use a food journal? Mine is an invaluable tool!

Your dad sounds like a love! And you know, Joy, it's never too late. As you learn to deal with all of this, you can pass it on to your dad!
Just take it one small step at a time!


Bobbi http://www.plaudersmilies.de/chicken.gif Chick's Rule!
 
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