Border Collie owners

[janie1234]

I've put in a request for a dog, . . his name is Petey

http://bcrescuenc.org/

I've e-mailed the foster dad and based on my family's spec's he thinks Petey would be a good fit. Please someone tell me if this is a bad idea. I've never owned a dog but my sister does and she is the worst ever with her dog, . . she'll forget to feed her and the dog has NEVER been on a walk in her life. I do not want to be a bad doggie mom. I know having a dog is a huge commitment. I understand that not all dogs are great with running and that they take a lot of training, . .that is okay with me since I work from home, . .but I do not have a back yard. I have a huge grassy area for the dog to play and it would be a huge pleasure to walk him in the morning and night, . . but I just want to know the cons. Do you crate dogs at night? I'd appreciate any feed back.

 

[lrayburn]

Janie,
Petey looks like a wonderful dog. As the owner of three border collie crosses and someone who is active in border collie rescue, these are the issues that I think you need to consider:

1) Border collies require a huge commitment because they are very smart and driven. I would highly recommend that you enroll yourself and Petey in an obedience class so you learn how to train and interact with him constructively. Look for a class that is based on positive reinforcement. As a new dog owner, I would recommend finding a good trainer don't try to go it alone. Plan on giving Petey two or three weeks to settle into your household and then start classes. If you can find someone who does inhome consultations to start you off on the right foot when you bring him home, that would be great in addition to group classes later.

2) Since you do not have a fenced yard, Petey will need to be onleash at all times until the two of you are bonded and you have a safe, reliable, proofed recall. Even if he has a solid recall with his current foster family, that will not necessarily transfer directly to the new household. This period may take several months or longer. You don't say if your area is near a road or not but if it is, he may never be safe off-leash there.

3) Please remember that rescue dogs go through a transition period in a new household and his behavior will likely change after he has been in your house for a couple of weeks. Be prepared for him to start testing boundaries and figuring out where he fits into this new pack.

4) If Petey is crate-trained in his current foster home it would be best to continue using the crate. If he isn't crate-trained, I would recommend you crate-train him. Use the crate for overnight and any time that Petey cannot be supervised initially until he has demonstrated his reliability.

5) I always think of border collies as being dogs for dog people rather than dogs for people who just want a dog. The border collies (and crosses) I know want to be with you and involved in everything that is going on. If you are going to be working from home, he will likely enjoy following you around and just being a part of what you are doing.

Those are just some quick thoughts. Good luck in your search.
Lisa

 

[hiitdogs]

Cute dog!!!

I don't have a Border Collie but I have 5 Mini Australian Shepherd which is pretty close, they have similar character traits and are both herding breeds.

I run with my dogs almost every day, in fact, they are the reason why I started up running again. It really depends, Pepper, my girl, is somewhat lazy, she'll run and do whatever I ask her to do but she is perfectly fine to just lay next to me on the sofa. Her son, Jack, is the energizer bunny, whereas 8 miles is where my other dogs start dragging, he has gone for 12 miles with me and looked like he could do another 12 It really depends on the dog, Border Collies and Aussies are usually high energy and need an outlet for that energy.

Border collies are pretty smart dogs, they need challenges. Herding classes, agility, obedience, flyball, frisbee dogs, find out what your dog likes. Two of my dogs are great sheep herders, whereas one hides behind my legs when he sees sheep, the other one thinks it's so cool that I chase the sheep but she won't do it and the third one hasn't quite decided what to do with the sheep. All of them do agility. A tired dog is a good dog

I don't have a backyard, well, I do, but it's beachtowel size . That's why I am out with them all the time. The huge grass area is great but border collies and aussies don't do well just playing by themselves, they are pretty attached to their family (mostly one person in the family). Border collies need a "job" teach them tricks, the above mentioned herding, agility, etc. If they don't have a job, they will find one on their own. And it's usually not one that you want them to do, like digging up the yard, bark, eat socks ......

All of my dogs are crate trained, but now we are at a point that I can trust them, so the kennel is open so they can sleep in there and they do most of the time.

Be forewarned though, those dogs are like potato chips, can't only have one I started out with one

I hope it works out for you, keep us posted what you decide!

Oh and by the way, border collie and aussies are velcro dogs, so if you get one, be aware that you can wave good bye to privacy in your bathroom.

 

[janie1234]

Jan
As a new dog owner, I would recommend finding a good trainer don't try to go it alone.
Lisa

Great Lisa! All points taken and really helpful. Can I ask what you look for in a good obedience class? I've searched around but there are so many I'm not sure what to look for.

The dog description said that Petey is crate training and house training nicely. Does that mean that he will want to be in a crate at night and as far as house training will he ask to be let out?

I live near a road on a cul de sac, . .even though it is a very small and quiet town I would keep him on a leash most deffinitely until he was trained. I've already been hit by a car while running by an elderly driver I would not take a chance with a pet. Would he be terribly unhappy if I don't have a back yard? I know that they have a lot of energy and I will commit to taking him for walks 2 times a day (hopefully runs) but I don't have a fenced in back yard for him to hang out in and he looks big. My husband seems to think that only people with fenced in back yards can have dogs, but 4 of the neighbors in the cul de sac have dogs (grey hound, terriers, lab's- at least he'll have playmates).

Thanks so much!

 

[janie1234]

Oh and by the way, border collie and aussies are velcro dogs, so if you get one, be aware that you can wave good bye to privacy in your bathroom.

Ha that is funny! I read that somewhere too during my research! Must be true. I haven't been able to go to the bathroom by myself in 8 years since my first child was born.
Thanks Carola. BTW I know what you mean by you can't have one. It was hard to narrow it down. Initially we wanted Mouse but he already has 2 other families who are interested and the foster dad thought Petey would be better for us.

 

[dreamyjeanie]

Since you don't have a yard, another option is going to a dog park. Are there any near you? Unfortunately you cannot predict how he will do at a dog park. One of my dogs loves it for the human socialization. I think she could care less that there are 20 other dogs running around (and the owners are probably wondering why does this dog keep trying to play with them and not their dogs). My other dog (an australian shepherd) is not comfortable at dog parks. She gets very shy around the other dogs and will become snippy if she feels too intimidated.

Do you have small children? Sometimes the herding breeds will think of small children as something they are suppose to herd and will be nippy at them. They are not doing it to be mean, they are just trying to get them to move, but that can still be very scary for a small child.

Best of luck in your decision.

Jean

 

[jgarr44460]

We had a border collie mix that we rescued from the ASPCA. He was the BEST dog we have ever had. We miss him to this day and he's been gone for years. Beau was brought into our home when our 3 boys were young. He thought of them as his flock and made it his job to keep them within the boundaries of our yard. He was very protective of them. If the boys climbed a tree - Beau was at the bottom waiting. When the youngest fell off his bike in the woods - Beau tried to pull the bike off of him. I never knew how intelligent a dog could be. He also had the most energy of any dog I've ever seen. They are not lazy, lay around take them for a walk twice a day dogs. Beau needed lots of time to run around and it worked great with the three boys. They all tired each other out. If I were in the position to get another dog I would love a Border Collie. My husband is opposed because he is still not over losing our beautiful dog.

 

[lrayburn]

Great Lisa! All points taken and really helpful. Can I ask what you look for in a good obedience class? I've searched around but there are so many I'm not sure what to look for.

I don't have time to do this question justice right now and I'm sure HiitDogs will add some things she looks for to.

First of all, I look for someone that uses positive reinforcement (treats and toys) during the learning phase not strong corrections.

The gear that trainers use will tell you something about their training mindset. I prefer someone who uses an EasyWalk or front connect harness for dogs that pull. A Gentle-Leader head harness is my next choice. I would not use a trainer that uses a choke collar. Prong-collars, although scary looking, are a better option than a choke collar but I'd rather use the harness or halter. The use of clickers (a technique for marking a new behavior) is usually a good thing but certainly not a must.

Most importantly ask to watch several classes and see how you feel about the classes and the trainer's interaction with the handlers and dogs. There are several certification options for dog trainers but that does not ensure a great trainer and you can find great trainers with no certification. Also, trainers are essentially training YOU to train your dog so make sure you are comfortable with their people skills as well as with how they handle the dogs.

Occasionally you can find a good trainer at a place like PetsMart but they are not consistent - one store may have a great trainer and the next may be a dud. Your local kennel club should offer obedience classes and generally they are pretty good. I would try that before looking at a petstore trainer.

This sounds kind of silly but if you are new to the dog world and don't know what to look for in a trainer, ask them if they prefer the techniques of Cesar Milan ("The Dog Whisperer") or Victoria Stillwell ("It's Me or the Dog"). Go with the person that prefers Victoria!!

The dog description said that Petey is crate training and house training nicely. Does that mean that he will want to be in a crate at night and as far as house training will he ask to be let out?

In my opinion, an adult dog shouldn't need to ask to be let out unless he is having some sort of upset. Instead, establish a schedule so that your dog always has an opportunity to go at similar times each day. So my guys get to go out first thing in the morning for a quick pee. After breakfast we take a longer walk where everyone dogs their business. Then a quick outing at lunch and a longer walk in the afternoon and a quick outing again after dinner before bed. If he learns to ask to go out, a lot of times he'll ask to go out when he doesn't actually need to go potty. If mine get anxious in between, of course I'll let them out but that's not the usual occurance.

I always treat ANY new dog as though he is not housetrained for the first couple of days because many dogs will have accidents during the transition period. This means keeping him close to you or crated so he can't sneak off and have an accident while you aren't watching. Once he gets used to the new routine, he can have more freedom.

He may not WANT to be in the crate overnight but should tolerate it. I would crate him overnight until you guys know each other better and you are comfortable with his behavior.

Would he be terribly unhappy if I don't have a back yard? I know that they have a lot of energy and I will commit to taking him for walks 2 times a day (hopefully runs) but I don't have a fenced in back yard for him to hang out in and he looks big. My husband seems to think that only people with fenced in back yards can have dogs, but 4 of the neighbors in the cul de sac have dogs (grey hound, terriers, lab's- at least he'll have playmates).

No he won't be terrible unhappy without a yard! In fact I find a fenced yard actually reduces the interaction between people and their dogs because they can use the fenced yard as an "easy out" instead of walking when the weather is ugly or people are busy. If you are committed to the dog, the lack of a fenced yard isn't an isssue.

Lisa

 

[Shadowpup]

We have two Border Collies, one from ASPCA and one who actually 'picked' us as his new people. (Short version, He'd been dumped as an eight week old pup, had been out by himself for a few days, singled me out of a group as a dog-person, jumped in my arms and asked where we lived. Even with three dogs at home, who could resist that approach???).


Borders are smart in a very different way than Shepherds. My Shepherds normally wanted me to give them jobs to do, and were high energy. They'd get frustrated and bored if not kept busy. I would not say Borders are smarter than my other dogs - I would say, they are far more self motivated and creative, and they absolutely require meaningful work to do (meaning, something that will please their people). Neither of our Borders ever get frustrated or bored - but that is becaues they will assign themselves elaborate tasks if we do not give them something to do. This is a dangerous quality, because a Border's idea of what will make a person happy is not necessarily what that person would choose ...

Borders are the most sensitive dogs I've ever met. Mine both take personal responsibility for anything wrong and try to fix it; my oldest Border gets quite distressed if there is a problem which isn't resolved quickly. This is great for family harmony, because a raised voice or a stressed conversation has her looking for a way to fix it. Perhaps a toy? Perhaps Border-saliva? Or maybe we should all go for a walk? Or would you like a Border in your lap ... ? Mom, dad, please don't fight. Let's do something else instead.

I know people who have been successful with Borders even in apartments. They do take time and energy. Our oldest (one at the time) managed okay in the suburbs with a yard, with a lot of game playing indoors (we now live on acreage in the country and she runs and plays and works all day long, even in her early teens.) In the 'burbs, we taught her intellectual games to help keep that busy mind in check. She could fetch toys by name from another room when hidden. "Fetch the BALL. Now fetch the RABBIT. " And I could even teach her that one particular ball was the "blue ball" and the other ball was the "red ball". Not saying she knows colors, just that she could attach specific names to objects. We taught her to run as fast as she could in a circle around the yard inside the fence, having her change direction from time to time ... it was not humanly possible to wear her out directly, but she'd go for a long time to get our praise, and it helped keep her fit and happy.

Our oldest border was abandoned at the ASPCA by a family who could not handle the constant energy, who yelled at her in an attempt to keep her quiet, and smacked her at least once. This turned her into a vicious fear aggressive dog with strangers who lept at and aggressively bit everyone at the shelter who handled her, or who came within reach. She survived being put to death at that shelt only because we have exercised constant love and attention and (most especially) careful watchfulness, to resocialize her. I mention this just because a Border is a whole different level of responsibility than most dogs, and even well-meaning people don't always realize how different their intelligence is, and what a wreck can be quickly left behind by mistreatment. Our Lab was also mistreated as a pup, far worse than the Border from what we're told, and yet he is left only with a fear of guns and water. On the other hand, our younger Border (who is six now)'s two day spree of being loose only means he carefully watches me whenever I show signs of being about to travel.

The joke about Borders and light bulbs? That's as close to true as it gets.

Wonderful dogs, and enjoy your new pup!

 

[kathryn]

One of my colleagues breeds border collies (and they work with him on his sheep farm).

As others have said, they are very smart dogs, and need to work or have some similar challenge (I think agility training would be perfect).

My colleague says that border collies herd by intimidation (they stare down the sheep, and sometimes nip at their feet).

(He also has an adorable Pyrenees, who was raised with the sheep so she thinks they are the same, and she would protect them against any predators).

ETA: I just checked out Petey's photo. He's a cutie!

(I also read some of the info on other dogs. Interesting that some of them show interest in herding children!)