Are we changing?

LauraMax

LauraMax

Cathlete
I mean as a society, is the concept of what the "ideal woman" is changing?

Yeah this is my philosophical dissertation of the day. A shift in what the so-called perfect body is seems to be occurring. It's not happening quickly, but it seems to be happening.

It's becoming OK to not be stick thin, and curves are coming back. Older women are now being considered beautiful in a similar way in which older men are considered handsome/distinguished. Witness all the magazines that are doing spreads on mature women, curvaceous women, non-model type women. Or the Dove ads. The message seems to be you can be curvaceous & mature, but still be healthy, or even healthier than skinny young girls.

I think this started about 25-30 years ago when Karen Carpenter died from anorexia. I don't believe (& someone correct me if I'm wrong) that anorexia was considered a serious, life threatening illness until a celebrity died from it. Then people started taking it more seriously.

Then, I think the shift to being not "perfect" was kind of started by Jamie Lee Curtis (yeah another celeb) quite some time ago (maybe about 5-10 years?) when she did a mag spread without any makeup, airbrushing or any image enhancement at all. She said she did it b/c she wanted women to realize that celebs are normal too without all the professional makeup & photo touch ups.

Now, all the health effects of women trying to measure up to the ideal of being thin are totally out in the open. I caught a few minutes of one of those tabloid shows last night in which yet another celeb was talking about models & how unhealthy they were. In fact, not only unhealthy but miserable b/c they don't eat, they have no energy, they take drugs to stay skinny & they don't really enjoy life.

So it appears that we're going thru a long process of social change & I'm wondering if, in 10 years, the Raphael body type will be totally in vogue. Good news for most women out there (not for me, I'm not shaped like an hourglass, I'm shaped like a rectangle x( ), and good news for society as a whole b/c it'll really release all that social pressure, especially on young girls, to be thin to the point where it effects both their mental and physical health.

Here's an interesting question--why the shift? Is it b/c women are becoming more powerful & therefore are able to drive what the image of an "ideal woman" should be? Is it b/c the population as a whole is just fed up w/the constant dieting & exercise commercials constantly being forced down our throats & the pressure that goes with it? Or is it just one of those sociological/anthropological thing--i.e. Marx's every thesis has its antithesis & therefore culture is cyclical.

OK this got really long & now I'm rambling. Any thoughts on this, other than it's pretty neat? ;-)
 
Good news for most women out there
>(not for me, I'm not shaped like an hourglass, I'm shaped like
>a rectangle x( ),

you're not the only one... x( ;-)

Great looking rectangle!

Quickie response to your question--I've been thinking about this too. Beyonce comes to mind...

kids crying, gotta go,

Gisela
 
Interesting questions. I noticed a small change in perceptional beauty a few years ago when Jennifer Lopez and Beyonce were becoming popular. I still think though, that they are the exception to the uber-skinny typical model or actress rule. Even those that start off looking healthy always end up losing tons of weight (Kate Bosworth, Nicole Ritchie, Lindsey Lohan, Hillary Duff to name a few).
I think we have a long way to go before you see properly nourished models on the runway but I'm hopeful it will happen.

Carolyn
 
I hope things will change soon. They just had something on the news last night about websites promoting anorexia - tips on how to hide the fact that you're not eating from your family, from your doctor, how great you'll look when you starve yourself. It was sickening. The news had a poll asking if you think the government should step in and take these websites off the internet. I definitely think they should. These women are killing themselves. There was an anorexic on who was in treatment but even though she was rail thin, she still thought she had more to lose from various parts of her body. Another woman destroyed her teeth from throwing up so much and now finds it hard to digest a full meal.

Marcy
 
Hourglass here!

There are still an awful lot of celebs dieting down to nothing. So not sure the trend has changed enough. In my youngest days, Twiggy was hot, and when I started to get curves, I was considered fat. I was one of the largest in high school. Now I go to my kids school, and I am very much shorter, and smaller than many of the girls. They are not necessarily fat, just larger people than when I was in HS in the 70's. This is better for my daughter who is getting hour glassy.

Girls also have a lot more opportunity for sports these days. So they are lifting weights, it is part of PE, and working on being strong. Still, on DD swim team, we watched one girl get dangerously thin and it was scary. She has come around and is healthy now, but anorexia is still alive and well, unfortunately.
 
My thoughts about why the shift?? We women are plain exhausted!
We are tired of trying to fit into what society tells us is in "Vogue" right now or whatever. We want to eat dammit! We are sick of looking at women who resemble Twizzlers in the magazines...we are recruiting our own role models now. Men have always liked the curvy gals, its us women who tear each other up trying to be the skinniest, the best dressed, the best hair, etc....right? And then it was you have to be thin, but still be "toned" or really lean--something most women find terribly hard to maintain. We are all different.
We are what we are, rectangles, apples, pears, hourglasses...you have to "do your best and forget the rest" Thank you Tony Horton for that one!:)
I love that I am 41 now, I can honestly look at my body type and finally feel comfortable in my own skin. I work out to look and feel good, I get facials, pedicures and manicures, I color my hair and wear makeup--for me! Not because I am trying to compete with every 18 year old that walks by, Ok, now I am ranting.:7
But as a society, we are like sheep in a way, we go with whatever "they" tell us is "in'. Much more so when we are younger.
 
from one rectangle to another ..

One can only hope that the image of the "ideal" woman becomes an image of a strong confident woman of which can come in varying different sizes .. that is in fact what makes us unique.

I love the dove adds .. they promote that you don't have to be rail thin to be beautiful.

I do hope that society is starting to reject the idea of the waif girl that starves herself and takes drugs to stay bone thin and looking as if they are at death's door. (don't even get me started on the female brat celebrity pack)

I have a friend that is anorexic and she has destroyed her teeth - her hair is falling out - her abdomen is distended and her life is consumed by fear of fat and food .. and also by exercise .. she is in complete denial and I fear for her life. It is a horrible disease w/a vicious cycle both mental and physical. So the more publicity out there that would lead to encourage people AWAY from that waif thin image the better .. IMO!

Jamie Lee Curtis . . you got to love her! She actually did a movie w/John Travolta called "Perfect" .. it was at the start of the "aerobic frenzy" .. and in interviews she has stated how hard she worked to keep her body thin and it consumed her life .. now she realizes how important it is for women to accept who they are .. what bodies they have .. to live healthy w/o fear .. GO JAMIE LEE!!

So I guess my thoughts and hopes are that we all learn to be a little easy on ourselves .. not obsess .. and be happy with our bodies .. yes work it out for your health not your vanity .. (well a little vanity never hurts :) ) ...
 
I actually saw an ad for a diet drink - I THINK it was Slimfast - last night on tv that amazed me. It showed a lot of beautiful medium-sized, healthy but curvy, women, and the voice-over was something like "We believe in hip curves (this part of the quote is wrong, I just can't remember it...), not hip bones. We want you to find YOUR best weight, not someone else's.." It was WONDERFUL, so refreshing, and the curvy women were so gorgeous - I think they had one stick-thin model for contrast and she actually looked unattractive compared to the other women who were smiling and glowing. And this was for a DIET PRODUCT!!! Hallelujah.
 
Actually, I think it's at least partially personal perception. When you look at mags and such, not much has really changed in terms of the images portrayed and the celebs who are religiously followed: the females tend to be young, too thin, and "gorgeous" (whether born that way or not). There are exceptions, of course. But they're still exceptions. The Dove campaign is interesting to me. I wonder why it really originated? Did someone at the agency really stop and say, "Hmm," or was it more a realization that there is huge untapped buying power out there (us) that has mostly been alienated by fashion and beauty manufacturers?

On the personal side, I think what happens is, as you get older, you stop paying so much attention to what the media tells you is "best" and start paying more attention to what your inner voice tells you is "best." For me I know I am far more accepting of myself. I don't think I'm perfect and there are things I would love to improve, but I look in the mirror and see the things I really like about myself. Stuff that I would have previously overlooked in my zeal to be what I thought I was supposed to be, you know? I think at a certain age, healthy women embrace their differences and feel empowered by them rather than allowing someone else to say it's bad because it's different.

Just my .02.

Marie
 
why the shift? Is it b/c
>women are becoming more powerful & therefore are able to drive
>what the image of an "ideal woman" should be? Is it b/c the
>population as a whole is just fed up w/the constant dieting &
>exercise commercials constantly being forced down our throats
>& the pressure that goes with it? Or is it just one of those
>sociological/anthropological thing--i.e. Marx's every thesis
>has its antithesis & therefore culture is cyclical?

Yes! Yes! and Yes! (Why do I sound so orgasmic ;-)?). There really has been some sort of epiphany with all this, hasn't there?

I often think of Liz Taylor and Marilyn Monroe in their heyday when this topic comes up. Also if you add Kate Winslet, Tyra (present day), and Salma Hayek to the list with Beyoncé and J-Lo I agree you’ll get a more rounded (pun intended) view of the wide spectrum of healthy and attractive women’s bodies in media. Plus Oprah whose voice is so far reaching and has always had her own body image issues has done so much to educate the public about this very topic for years!

I agree wholeheartedly with these ladies’ comments as well:

“Girls also have a lot more opportunity for sports these days. So they are lifting weights, it is part of PE, and working on being strong”.

“I think what happens is, as you get older, you stop paying so much attention to what the media tells you is "best" and start paying more attention to what your inner voice tells you is "best"….I think at a certain age, healthy women embrace their differences and feel empowered by them rather than allowing someone else to say it's bad because it's different.”

Reminds me of that promo I hear on FitTV: being yourself is being fit :)
 
I agree with what Marie said. I think it has a lot to do with personal perception. As we grow older and wiser (and hopefully more mature!) I think we tend to shift our priorities away from the ideal beauty (because it IS fleeting) and more towards ways to enrich our lives and the lives of those around us.

I will say this: Hooray for the ads that have HEALTHY curvy women in them. However, the statistics show that obesity is still on the rise and that anorexia nervosa is becoming much more common in women over 40. If we are becoming more powerful and accepting how come so many are suffering at the opposite extremes of what is healthy?
 
There are so many interesting takes on this topic.

Here is a thought. Perhaps because of the shift of baby boomers geting to an age where self acceptance is more prevalent, it is becoming more acceptable to go with the body we were given and not obsess about it.

I believe this has been the direction I have gone in for about the last 9 years. In my mid 30's I was determined to weight a certain number and had to be on the scale every day. I joined WW to achieve this. Although I was in a healthy weight raqnge, WW was happy to take my money.

One day I decided the scale should not be my 'happiness monitor' and WW was not a method to achieve happiness.

I am quite happy with my size, do not know my weight and am much calmer around food! Any guilt previously I had about food choices is gone.

My goals are to stay fit and injury free so I can spend a long time with my DH in years to come.


Judy "Likes2bfit"

http://www.smileyhut.com/silly/arrowhead.gif


If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail.
 
I'm reading this discussion with great interest and the thoughts are racing through my head! I think some of the answers and ideas we are sharing here may be slightly skewed (sp?) by the fact that this is a fitness web site and most of the people here are very aware of the need to be healthy and strong.

But...I think there are two distinct categories when we think about how "society" views women and our body image.

The first is what I would call the "media image" which largely conveys that women are thin (svelte), beautiful, healthy - and mostly under the age of 40.

The second is the reality which is that our population is getting older and is mostly overweight. The statistics are appalling - over 60% of the population is overweight and of that number, 30% are obese! I don't know the breakdown on these numbers of men vs. women, but no matter what this is truly a health epidemic.

Given the reality of our fitness as a nation, I'm not sure that whatever media images are being projected are really causing a large percentage of women to overdiet or overexercise.

So...I have mixed feelings about media images. On one hand I resent always having pictures shoved in my face of beautiful young women. But on the other hand, I'm not sure than encouraging women to "feel good" about be overweight and out of shape is a good thing either.

It's a very complex situation and I really appreciate hearing how everyone feels about it.
 
Ok, to start, I agree that the "ideal woman" image is changing. Or actually, multiplying. I think a recognition that there are more one than one beautiful body types (and skin color, etc) is coming into play, where it has always been very limited before.

I think the thesis/antithesis is definitely a factor in this.

Also, I think the changing demographics of our country over the last 20 years has a significant impact on this. Are we at the point where whites are no longer the majority, or still getting to that point? I don't remember, but I know it's a projection. So the curvier women from hispanic and black cultures are making their impact in the media.

And I've noticed the stars that start out looking healthy that end up losing tons of weight and looking like lolliop-heads, all tend to be the very young girls. But a reasonable and a healthy look, in my opinon, exist on many of the "adult" celebrities. (Catherine Zeta Jones, Beyonce (who yes, has dealt with weight issues and in an unhealthy way but at least didn't go too far), Jennifer Lopez, Reese Witherspoon, etc.

AS for Dove and Slimfast..that's pure marketing greed. However, I hope that eventually, behind the cold calculations of corporations, there will seep in people's minds (including the minds of those who make the ad campaigns) a different idea of what is beautiful. I do believe it has started, or perhaps it's just hte men I meet now happen to have a different outlook than the men I met (boys) I met when younger?

I do hope a more "empowered" sense of us as women has contributed tothe change, and continues to. I wonder if that the fact that our role both in the economy and in the perceived "status" of our jobs has changed so much in the past 20 years, that our perception of what we "have" to be like and more of us are looking (and listening) to ourselves, our minds, and our own bodies to deterimine what is healthy. As more and more do this, momemtum gathers, and perceptions shift. I know that personally, I feel like I have more power and impact in this world than I did 20 years go. Sure, some of it is maturity ... but I think this coming generation of 30-40-somethings was raised, or developed out of economic necessity, a different mindset about themselves than their parents. So I think it's only going to change for the better! :)

Ok , down from soapbox. :) BUt this was a very interesting post and there have been many thoughtful and interesting replies!
 
Ok, to start, I agree that the "ideal woman" image is changing. Or actually, multiplying. I think a recognition that there are more one than one beautiful body types (and skin color, etc) is coming into play, where it has always been very limited before.

I think the thesis/antithesis is definitely a factor in this.

Also, I think the changing demographics of our country over the last 20 years has a significant impact on this. Are we at the point where whites are no longer the majority, or still getting to that point? I don't remember, but I know it's a projection. So the curvier women from hispanic and black cultures are making their impact in the media.

And I've noticed the stars that start out looking healthy that end up losing tons of weight and looking like lolliop-heads, all tend to be the very young girls. But a reasonable and a healthy look, in my opinon, exist on many of the "adult" celebrities. (Catherine Zeta Jones, Beyonce (who yes, has dealt with weight issues and in an unhealthy way but at least didn't go too far), Jennifer Lopez, Reese Witherspoon, etc.

AS for Dove and Slimfast..that's pure marketing greed. However, I hope that eventually, behind the cold calculations of corporations, there will seep in people's minds (including the minds of those who make the ad campaigns) a different idea of what is beautiful. I do believe it has started, or perhaps it's just hte men I meet now happen to have a different outlook than the men I met (boys) I met when younger?

I do hope a more "empowered" sense of us as women has contributed tothe change, and continues to. I wonder if that the fact that our role both in the economy and in the perceived "status" of our jobs has changed so much in the past 20 years, that our perception of what we "have" to be like and more of us are looking (and listening) to ourselves, our minds, and our own bodies to deterimine what is healthy. As more and more do this, momemtum gathers, and perceptions shift. I know that personally, I feel like I have more power and impact in this world than I did 20 years go. Sure, some of it is maturity ... but I think this coming generation of 30-40-somethings was raised, or developed out of economic necessity, a different mindset about themselves than their parents. So I think it's only going to change for the better! :)

Ok , down from soapbox. :) BUt this was a very interesting post and there have been many thoughtful and interesting replies!
 
I haven't read any of the other responses yet because I don't want to be influenced. This is what I LOVE about being a Baby Boomer!! :D Wherever we are in our lives, we're catered to because there are so many of us, and right now, we've got most of the money. }( We are getting older, we can't be stick thin anymore, and companies want to sell their products to us. We boomer women do not respond to stuff that doesn't make us feel good about ourselves, so they make us feel good about ourselves. I'm lovin' it. :D
 
I think its great that there's no pressure to be skeletal..........but........I'm also seeing a disturbing trend of teens porking out and their bellies, bared to the world lopping over the top of their jeans...moms afraid to intervene for fear they'll get anorexia - the media does us a disservice with this panic reporting on celebrity anorexia - that is not the norm in everyday life......real life, cholesterol, hormone levels, and diabetes - all precursers to heart disease, cancer, and long term health disabilities are far greater threat to this country from the obesity epidemic..and its NOT ok! But what to do?
 
I think a WOMAN's perspective of attractiveness is changing and it is because we are more confident in our own skins and less concerned with approval of the male part of society. Just think back to when you were a kid and it seemed all the commercials were geared toward getting male approval. Remember the wisk ads where the woman was beside herself because she could not get out her husband's "ring around the collar" and all the neighborhood was making fun of her? Or that perfume ad with the song "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan and never ever let you forget your the man"?

We still have a long way to go, but I look forward to the day (may not be in my lifetime), when women strive to be healthy, strong and well-groomed and THAT will be considered attractive - not what the current standard is in a male's point of view. Lord knows they can be too hard to please;-) Marnie
 
I think the shift has to do with marketing. The fact is, "we" are getting fatter so companies have to keep up with their target demographics. Clothes meant for larger women need to be modeled by larger women.

I don't sense any altruism on the part of clothing makers. The bottom line is the bottom line.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Our Newsletter

Get awesome content delivered straight to your inbox.

Top