Advice needed about flea/tick stuff...

M

MCunningham

Cathlete
Good evening, ladies!

Okay, so I have a Boston Terrier and a Maltese/Lhasa mix, both males, both about 1.5 years old.

Last summer/fall, we didn't have the Maltese mix yet (we adopted him later).

We only had the Boston, and we didn't use any kind of flea/tick stuff on him because he had to be bathed EVERY DAY. He had potty training issues, and even though he's been crate trained since day one, he pooped/peed in his crate every day, and still does at least twice a month.

Last year, I spoke to our vet about using K-9 Advantix (anti-flea/tick/mosquito) on the Boston, but she said not to use it on him until there was a several-day stretch of time where we didn't have to bathe him daily, because there was no point in putting the stuff on him to just wash it off the next day.

So, this year, we've decided to put both dogs on the K-9 Advantix, because we live in Maryland, and the flea/tick issue here is terrible.

Well, Thursday night, I put Advantix on the back of both dogs' necks. Since that time, the Boston has been listless, trying to scratch at the back of his neck, and he feels like he's running a fever. He's usually a VERY cuddly dog, and he's just buring up so much that he refuses to cuddle the last two days, and he just generally looks miserable. (The Maltese mix has had no ill effects.)

My question is this: have any of you ever experienced this with a pet? If so, what did you do to remedy it, and how did you end up controlling fleas and ticks? I'm just not sure what else to do, and I cannot do NOTHING, since ticks are very, very bad where I live in the country.

I want to address this with my vet, but they're out of town until Wednesday because of the long holiday weekend, so I'm trying to get a preliminary feel for how common/uncommon this problem is.

Help!!

Any advice/input would be much appreciated.

Meg
 
I had that problem with my dogs last year. I had a new puppy and all over sudden found ticks all over my dogs.

Called the vet and was told to put K9 Advantix on my dogs. Wow, I shouldn't have. My 4-months-old puppy's face blew up and he looked like a hammerhead shark, he showed some unusual behavior, I thought he was going crazy, whereas my other two (large) dogs were listless, running around the house, trying to hide under the table, in my closet, howling, didn't want to be touched, etc.

I immediately took my puppy to the vet and they gave him (what I believe were) cortisone shots, I was told to give all of my dogs Benedryl and I washed all of them off with water and Dawn soap. The vet said it couldn't be from Advantix, I don't know, too much of a coincidence for me that within 1 hour of applying that stuff all three dogs have problems.

When I checked on the Internet, I found hundreds and hundreds of people who experienced problems with Advantix. To say the least, I was pretty pissed at my vet because they said they had never heard of a problem with Advantix. I figured it was time to change the vet!!!

The new vet said that they never recommend Advantix because the ingredients are well-known to cause death, tremors, loss of motor control, vomiting, inability to tolerate touch, diarhea and unusual behavior. She recommended frontline and put it on two of my dogs without visible problems or side effects.

That being said I am really reluctant to put any chemicals on my dog which will be on his skin for weeks, that recommends that I wear gloves for application. If I need protection from that chemical how come it is ok to be on the dog for weeks??

What I found kind of interesting though was that during my research about Advantix, I went on the website for 1800petsmeds and looked at the reviews for Advantix, it was all positive. So I posted a review, just describing my dogs' reactions - it was pulled, another friend posted a similar review, it was also pulled - so Advantix (and any other medications) are showing a PERFECT five-star record on 1-800-petmeds.

In any case, if I had a tick problem again to the extent that I had it last year, I probably would use Frontline again. However, I wouldn't do it on a monthly basis, but that's a personal choice based on what I have concluded - but I am not a vet.

Currently, I am just giving them garlic/yeast tablets which supposedly helps repelling ticks. I use grooming products by Ark Naturals which uses essential oils for repelling, it's Neem Protect Shampoo and Neem Protect Spray. I also put 1 or 2 drops of Rose Geranium Oil on my dog's color, about every week or so.

Diatomeus Earth is pretty good for treating your house and yard, if you have a tick problem. I had those critters crawling all over my house last year - YUCK! DE not a chemical, it works mechanically by dehydrating the insect. You can get it online at Natural Pet Supply stores or in garden centers, just don't use the one you get at pool supply stores.

Other than that, I check my dogs for ticks every day. My understanding is, that the tick needs to be attached to the skin for at least 24 hours to be able to transmit Lyme Disease.

I haven't seen any ticks on my dogs for a while - knock on wood - however, several others at the dog park seem to have a problem this year.

I hope your dog will be better soon.

Carola
 
I, too, was hesitant about using any kind of spot-on product. But when we had a brief, 2-day thaw this March and I found a tick on both my dogs (one of which sleeps under my youngest DD's bed, and sometimes on the bed with her)... plus found a tick on DH, I decided to use frontline. I use it on both dogs, and haven't seen any adverse effects. Lyme is endemic where I live, and I rationalized that the risks of this product did not outweigh the risks of any tick-borne diseases for my family and my pets.
 
Hi Meg,

I use Frontline for my 3 dogs. I've never seen a flea or tick on them. Two of my dogs are indoor/outdoor dogs and my Siberian Husky/Chow Mix lives in a very nice dog house in my fenced back yard.

I've used it for years with no ill effects of any of my dogs.

I've used Frontline with my dogs since day 1 of adopting them.

My vet also said not to bathe or have the dogs groomed for about a week after application of Frontline.

My border collie hates Frontline. She hears me open the drawer where I keep it and she runs!

Is it possible that the Boston perhaps picked up a cold or something?
 
No, the Boston doesn't have a cold... the scratching and listlessness started within about an hour of application of Advantix.

I haven't tried Frontline on either dog... but I may try it just once to see how my Boston reacts to it. I really do need to do something to control fleas and ticks (I don't have a problem with them yet, and I'd like to keep it that way... I'm trying to sell my house, and I don't think that a flea/tick infestation is a good selling point.)

Anyway, I did do some research online about problems with Advantix, and apparently my Boston's side effects are pretty mild compared to some of the horror stories out there. I won't be putting Advantix on either of my dogs again!

I read Carola's response about using Neem products and the geranium oil... are there any other natural ways to combat or repel fleas and ticks?

I also have two indoor-only cats, so obviously I'm trying to keep 4 animals from being infected, not just the dogs!

Any input is appreciated!! :)
 
>I read Carola's response about using Neem products and the
>geranium oil... are there any other natural ways to combat or
>repel fleas and ticks?
>
Here are some products for natural flea and tick control: http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=flea-tick-control

Have you tried a web search for "natural tick control"? (The info on fleas is much easier to find...I posted some info in a thread that Janie started on flea control, that you can find here if you do a search).
 
Whoa, you have two indoor cats? Your vet should have NEVER given you the K9Advantix!!!! If your indoor cats rub against your dogs or groom them, it could be deadly for them! Cats cannot metabolize the active ingredient in K9 Advantix.

My vet did the same thing though. They knew I had cats and gave it to me anyway. You may want to wash both your dogs with Dawn soap ASAP and keep your cats away from your dogs.

It is often assumed that Advantage, K9Advantix, Frontline, etc. have to be safe because you get it through the vet only and they are so-called prescription products. However, it is important to know that is the result of a marketing strategy, not because of FDA regulation.

In fact, the products I just mentioned are NOT regulated by the FDA. They are registered as pesticides (just like products used to control termites, cockroaches, and rodents) and are regulated only by the EPA.

I don't know, it doesn't sound "safe" to me in the long-term, on a monthly basis to put a pesticide on my pet. But everyone needs to come to their own conclusions and make decisions they are comfortable with.

As to natural ways to combat fleas and ticks, "Flea Away" is a product based on diametoaceus earth. If you need to treat your house, check out www.fleabusters.com, you can either buy the product and apply it yourself or ,depending on where you live, you can get them to do the treatment through their service providers.

Before I put the Rose Geranium on my dog's collar, I used a herbal flea collar by Petguard. There also is a company that sells "critter oil" which I haven't used but a friend of mine swears by it. http://www.naturespet.com/flea.html

Hope this helps.

Carola
 
I completely understand the feelings about putting chemicals on pets, and I feel the same way... but I had to put a dog down because she had a tick-borne disease similar to Lyme. It's called ehrlikiosis, and I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong! The point is, it was very difficult to diagnose, and by the time the vet finally figured it out, it was too far advanced.

I now use Frontline on my dog, and she's never experienced any ill effects.

I've tried natural shampoos, but not other natural products. The shampoos didn't seem to have an effect at all and didn't even seem to get her very clean. Maybe it was just the brand.

Anyow, I live in rural Arkansas, and our tick problem is pretty bad, too. I decided that I'll take the possible risks of chemicals to the known risks of tick disease.
 
>Here's a flea/tick/lice kill powder that looks pretty safe:
>http://www.diatect.com/flea-and-tick-killer-ppc.php

That one looks good, Kathryn. As a matter of fact, I think I am going to order it, just in case.

Just an FYI for everyone, be careful when applying the powder (any kind of DE powder) keep the dust down (meaning don't shake the bottle and sprinkle it all over), so you or your pet don't inhale it.

Carola
 
I totally understand your point of view, Shannon. It is horrible that your dog contracted Ehrlichiosis, it sounds like he/she was already in the chronic phase. Sorry to hear that.

The thing that most people don't know about Frontline and any of the other topical treatments is, that it doesn't kill the tick on contact, it kills within 24 to 48 hours which would be before the tick can transmit the disease.

I check my dogs for ticks every day, so I probably won't miss a tick. However, last year, I had a serious infestation, I probably found in excess of 100 ticks on my 4 dogs, plus several ticks crawling around my house - YUCK. If that happened again, I definitely would use Frontline again - but still not long-term.

I think my problem is not so much the immediate reaction to the pesticide (although pretty significant in some products like K9 Advantix and BioSpot), but I worry about the long-effects that may not be visible immediately. After all, all of these products are pesticides.

So far I haven't found ticks on my dogs this year, keep my fingers crossed, I hope it stays that way :)

Have a great day everyone.

Carola
 
>That one looks good, Kathryn. As a matter of fact, I think I
>am going to order it, just in case.

If you have an Ace Hardware near you, it looks like they carry it (the banner on the left scrolls through stores that carry it).

(But since they have free shipping, it would probably cost the same to order, and I'm all for saviing making a trip to the store!).
 
Somewhat deviating from the original post ....I have been using Frontline or Advantage for several years. It is completely not working for me anymore. It would only work for about 2 weeks last year. The past 2 months I have used Frontline and my dog has fleas the first week, less fleas the 2nd weak (still some) and completely back to fleas the 3rd week. They must be resistant now. We are having drought and heat here and I think this must be influencing the flea situation!! I am going batty here! I'm going to treat the yard with something next week and hope that helps!
 
My Boxer, Rascal, had a mild reaction to K-9 Advantix last year. He became agitated and unusually hyper after I put it on.

I'm going to try Frontline this year, but as Carola mentioned, not using it every month. I used this method with Frontline on my two previous dogs, a Boxer and a Boston, and it worked out well.

Something I'm trying this year in my yard, primarily for mosquito control (they're really bad around my house), is a product called Mosquito Barrier. It's a highly concentrated garlic extract solution that's supposed to repel mosquitoes, tick, and fleas. It's safe to use around humans, pets, and plants.

HTH
 
HTH - and you're safe from Vampires... :+

Actually, in our area, the garlic/yeast tablets are the hottest topic because they really do seem to work. Fortunately for us in the Bay Area, lyme disease is not common because the ticks go through one stage of life attached to the local lizards and not doormice as they do everywhere else. But I still don't want ticks on my dogs and in my house. With Jimmy being a puppy right now, I'm very hesitant to put anything on him, so he's getting tablets and a thorough check up every time we go hiking or romping in the weeds. (We don't have them in the yards, just in the mountains where we hike).
 
I am curious about the garlic/yeast tablets - what quantity do you give and do you give daily?

I live in Australia and during our last summer the fleas nearly drove my dog mad. She had bitten and scratched off her fur in places and the vet gave her an antibiotic and cortisone injection to settle down the irritation and prevent infection. I have never seen anything like it - we had very humid conditions for months and the fleas must have bred like crazy. Frontline lasted about a week, we had a little more success with Advantage. I was giving her a weekly bath in Malaseb to soothe her itchy skin, fortnightly applications of Frontline, a flea collar, flea spray and weekly spraying of her bedding after washing her blanket in wool wash and tea tree oil.

I hated using all the chemicals and thought if I started on the garlic/yeast tablets now in our winter this may ward off the onslaught this summer.

Thanks,
Meg
 
>I am curious about the garlic/yeast tablets - what quantity
>do you give and do you give daily?
fortnightly applications of Frontline,
>a flea collar, flea spray and weekly spraying of her bedding
>after washing her blanket in wool wash and tea tree oil.
>
>I hated using all the chemicals and thought if I started on
>the garlic/yeast tablets now in our winter this may ward off
>the onslaught this summer.
>
>Thanks,
>Meg

Meg,

Wow, Frontline, plus the flea collar plus the spray? No wonder she was scratching like crazy! No offense, but this sounds like overkill, it doesn't sound like it was a reaction to the fleas BUT to the flea medication.

I give my dogs Pet Guard Yeast and Garlic Wafers. My dogs are 35 lbs, and the recommended dose is 4 wafers per day, over 60 lbs is 6 wafers.
I'd probably look into Diatomaceous Earth applications, the problem with most chemical flea medications is that those bugs get resistent which they won't with DE because it kills them "mechanically" and it's less likely to cause sensitivities.

Good luck!

Carola
 
Thanks Carola. Hopefully I'll be able to get the Pet Guard wafers and Diatomaceous Earth applications here in Australia. I'm very keen not to have my beautiful lab go through anything like last summer again.

Cheers,
Meg
 
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