Vegetarians?????

nik13

Cathlete
Hi

This question is for the vegetarians. I was looking at going to a vegetarian diet, but was confused about about getting enough, complete protiens (all 8 amino acids, iron, vitamin D and B-12.

I was wondering if you could address these issues and explain to me why eating a vegetarian diet is better than a diet with animal protien in it.

If you could provide a site that will help, that would be great

Nikki

P.s. This question is for Lex411. I am trying to go dairy free, How do you get enough calcium if you don't eat dairy?
Do you eat a lot of Brocccoli?

Thanks everyone.
 
All good questions, but I have one also. What made you decide to go vegetarian and how strict are you going to be? Just no red meats, no animal flesh or no animal products at all? There are different levels of vegetarianism, so I was just curious.

As for going dairy-free, you do get more than enough calcium from both green veggies and, believe it or not, most grains. Grains like millet, amaranth, buckwheat and quinoa (all readily available at places like whole foods and most are cooked like rice or couscous and are delish!) have vitamins people don't realize, like calcium, iron and lots of vitamins. I don't eat wheat either, so I use things like millet and buckwheat all the time, they're easy to prepare and really yummy. I love cooked millet with fresh dill and steamed baby carrots, it's soooo good. And I have a recipe that uses buckwheat, onions, carrots, celery, etc that tastes just like stuffing. I'll make a big batch and freeze it in baggies for easy reheating when I need a yummy meal in a hurry. And there are pastas made from grain flour from quinoa, etc that you can use, too. The dairy council, a multi-billion dollar business, goes to great lengths to convince people that cow's milk products are the best source of calcium. Certainly not for human beings. You can absorb some calcium from milk, but it's a type of calcium that is too coarse for our bodies to fully absorb, which is why Vitamin D is usually added, but that doesn't compensate for milk's other shortcomings. When you think about it, cows get THEIR calcium from the grass they eat, so you are getting it via milk once removed from the original source. Cows only naturally produce milk to help turn a skinny calf into a fat cow as quickly as possible as a natural defense against predators. The more quickly offspring can grow, the less vulnerable they are, so it's a function of evolution for them. For us, drinking cow's milk is pretty ridiculous, it would be much more healthy and natural to drink milk and eat dairy derived from closer relatives like Chimpanzees, but people would probably think you were nuts to suggest it. Nor would you want to feed a human mother's breast milk to a different animal. (And in answer to your question, I DO eat a lot of broccoli, I absolutely love it. I also love green beans, spinach and cauliflower. Those are my staple veggies.)

So, if you do enjoy veggies and eat a good variety of them plus some good grains, you'll be more than covered. Your body will actually absorb more calcium from those sources than they ever could from milk, etc.

As for the benefits of not eating meat, that's a tough one to answer simply. I do believe that certain blood types are more suited to digesting meat and seem to even thrive when eating more animal protein. My boyfriend is Type O and can eat chicken and lean beef all the time and he is super healthy and fit. When he tried going veggie and using things like soy and legumes as alternate sources of protein, he felt horrible and discovered he doesn't digest soy well at all. I'm a Type A and I'm just the opposite. When I eat red meat and pork, I feel very bloated and sluggish. Chicken and fish seem to be ok for me, but I do best when eating more veggies, fruits and grains and keep the protein intake lower and from things like coldwater fish (warm water fish tends to be loaded with preservatives as soon as it's caught to make the transition to the markets.) I'm not saying everyone should follow a Blood Type diet, but myself and a bunch of friends and family have helped me to observe the guidelines in action. There is definitely validity to the theory that certain blood types are naturally suited to different diets.

But it is known for a fact that higher intakes of animal protein are linked to higher incidents of heart disease and cancer. There are lots of different theories out there as to why that is, and lots of people will even argue those facts. People on vegetarian diets seem, in my observation, to get a great variety of fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes in their diets, and along with that comes really high fiber. Now that might be a key factor in why vegetarians tend to have lower cholesterol and lower incidents of the diseases I mentioned. Fiber really cleans you out and I think thats a huge advantage of a veggie diet.

Personally, I do eat fish and chicken, just no red meat or pork, and I supplement mys diet with soy protein shakes. I actually do that more as a treat, because I like them, than a need for more protein. And I do sometimes cook up a skillet of sauteed veggies in garlic and throw in a couple of eggs. I've been a total vegan before, once for about 3 years, but I've just preferred a wider range in my own diet in the last few years. I don't eat meat daily, though, and try to stick with coldwater fish for the added Omega fatty acid benefit.

Nutrition and diet is so personal and what works for one person might not work for a thousand others. Take into account your own lifestyle, personal food preferences and longterm goals for health. I'm not sure if I know of a website regarding this, but I'll put on the thinking cap and see what I can come up with.

I hope that helped some! Happy Holidays!
 
Thanks Lex

I always can rely on you to post good information and questions too.

I haven't ate red meat in years. I eat poultry. I am starting to have trouble digesting dairy. I was looking to eliminate dairy and sugar. I have the book total health makeover and enjoyed alot of what it had to say. I was wondering about vegetarian diet, because I have been hearing so much about animal protien and cancer. A vegetarian diet doesn't give you everything one needs without having to take supplements. So, I was curious about a vegetarian lifestyle.


Lex do you feel better now that you eliminated sugar and dairy?
I need insite on what animal protiens cause cancer and what part of it does and why?

I like alot of facts, huh?

Thanks again
Nikki
 
I noticed a HUGE improvement in my health in so many ways from eliminating dairy and limiting sugar intake. The first and most obvious change from getting rid of all dairy was a reduction of mucous in my system. I'm a type A blood, and we're known for producing too much too easily and can really overrun our bodies with it. That complicates my asthma, so that was a tremendous benefit right there. Then I also noticed less bloating, sneezing, wheezing and itching. I never had that gassy feeling anymore and with the sugar reduction my moods were always up and I always felt great, no mood swings or rollercoasters like before, and I just felt happier and more energetic in general.

As for what exactly in red meat is linked with cancer, I'm not entirely certain of that myself. I'm still learning this stuff, too, but as soon as I know about that I will post it and let you know for sure.

As for the vegetarian thing, I did it for years and I don't recall taking any supplements while I was doing it. It certainly never hurts to add a B complex and things like that, there are lots of vitamins that are water soluble so the excess that your body doesn't use or need is flushed away. But if you eat a lot of variety of grains and veggies you should be pretty much covered. Still, coming off a meat eating diet, even if it's not red meat, I can see your concern at missing important nutrients. I don't really agree with taking massive quantities of vitamins in pill form or taking things you could just be eating, which is the best way of course. But things that you know you might not get enough of on a veggie diet you could supplement other ways. I still love the occassional soy shake and I do take a daily B multi, just for the extra energy. And I take probiotics (powder dissolved in room temperature bottled water) twice daily. Every other day I take E...that's about it I think. Sometimes my chiro has me take specific other things that she feels I could use a boost in from time to time.

But feel free, keep the questions coming and if I know the answers or anything that can help, you know I'm glad to do it.
 
It's great to see other vegetarian exercisers out there...I have been a vegetarian (ovo-lacto) for nearly 9 years and recently (within past 2 months) went vegan. This started when I learned more about the factory farming and the negative effects of dairy products, namely cow's milk, in one's diet. I have not had a lot of support; my family thinks I'm crazy and never hesitates to ridicule my choice of foods or judge my eating habits against their own (which are not that great!! big meat eaters!). My husband is slowly adjusting and though he disagrees with me, is getting more supportive in helping me find different things to eat and restarants and such.

I don't have a lot of medical/scientific facts for you but I can refer you to a couple sites. The PETA site is great--has lot of information about eating (request their beginner's guide to becoming vegetarian!) and commpanies that test/don't test on animals, as well as the animal products found in foods, cosmetics, and household products. go to www.peta.com.

another great site with TONS of recipes is www.vegweb.com. You name it, they've got it! also has information and lots of other helpful links.

I totally agree with Lex411 on the calcium/protein issue. many non-vegetarian people assume that us veg-heads don't get enough protein when in fact, the United States population gets entirely too much protein.

As a vegan, calcium intake is important--to meet a woman's daily requirements, I take a calcium supplement, which includes vitamin D--important in calcium absorption, and a women's one a day, along with plenty of soy and rice milk. Like Lex411 also mentioned, many foods have calcium also.

As far as I'm concerned the only downfalls of being vegan are the difficulty in finding products in your average grocery store, eating out, and the prices that can come attached to vegan foods. but it can be done!
Good luck and let us hear how you are doing and the decisions you've made!
kelli
 
RE: Always been a vegetarian

Hi, I have never liked any meat or fish. Eggs and cheese are ok. However, I have always had trouble getting enough protein in my diet. How much is necessary? Which protein drinks are good? Thanks
 
RE: Always been a vegetarian

Referring to a great book on nutrition, Jane Brody's Nutrition Book:

"Most of us eat at least twice as much protein as we really need for good nutrition...you can get fat eating too much protein...excess protein puts a strain on your liver and kidneys...(excess protein) also promotes bone loss and resulting fractures...on a per-pund basis, daily requirements for protein decline with age...the protein you eat cannot be stored in your body, it needs a new daily supply...nearly all vegetables contain some protein, which, over the course of a day, contributes significantly to meeting your protein requirement.

If you eat more protein than your body needs, the excess nitrogen is excreted as urea in your urine and the rest of the protein molecule is stored as fat. This is why people with kidney failure are place on low protein diets. Excess protein may also cause your body to lose needed calcium.

When calculating how much protein you should be eating, you want to consider your ideal, healthy bodyweight, not your current weight if you are overweight or have too much bodyfat. This is because your need for protein is determined by how much lean muscle tissue you have in your body, not by body fat. So, bearing that in mind, here is the RDA for how much protein to consume based on ideal body weight:

Adults 19 and over 0.36 grams per pound ideal body weight
Pregnant women 0.62 grams per pound ideal body weight
Nursing Women 0.53 grams per pound ideal body weight

for example, for a 160-pound man: 0.36x160= 57.6 grams"

And when calculating ideal weight, be realistic and healthy, bearing in mind that a body with lots of lean, strong muscles weighs more than a skinny person of the same size with no muscles.

Hope that helps!
 
vegetarian

Hi. I've been veggie for 9 years or so, the family about 6. We eat a lot of soy substitutes like Morningstar farms etc. for protein. You may want to check out www.dixiediner.com for some stuff. For information, I would recommend a search on www.webmd.com. They usually have unbiased information. Good Luck!
 
RE: Thanks

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-00 AT 05:38PM (Est)[/font][p]I guess I should be getting about 36 grams of protein a day. That is so hard for me. Guess I will have to find a good protein drink. I don't like the food that is supposed to taste like meat. Since I was a child, I could never stomach any meat. Eggs and cheese were the only protein I did not mind eating. Thanks for the info!
 
RE: Thanks

If you don't want to get your protein from meat, dairy or eggs, you can get lots of protein from veggies, grains and great foods like tofus and soy. You can buy unflavored, unsweetened soy powder and sprinkle it on foods like cereal or mix it into soups, you can stir fry tofu in lite teriyaki or soy (to bring the sodium content down) and add it to veggies...there's lots of creative ways to add a little protein here, a little protein there and before you know it you have your 36 grams. And that's just a general guideline, don't stress if you don't get that amount every day, just stay in the ballpark.

Or grab things like Luna bars, which are made with soy, and use those as treats. They're very sweet and really yummy, in particular I love the lemon zest bars. Cliff Bars are wonderful too. Also pretty sweet but they make yummy and relatively healthy treats in place of something like candy or cookies, and they also usually have soy protein. I like to bring something like that to the movies with me, sneak it in my pocket or bag and I don't miss my movie treats so much.

You can also buy baking mixes at health food stores that use more soy flour so even when you make pancakes or muffins you're getting some protein. See what I mean? There are lots of little things you can do to circumvent needing meat or dairy.

Just have fun with it, experiment and you'll find things you love and that work well for you.

A good rule of thumb, though, is not to eat protein (any kind) before bedtime unless you have about 3 or 4 hours before you actually go to bed. It takes protein a while to break down and digest and you don't want to hit they hay and have your body slow down when your protein still isn't finished digesting. Carbs tend to digest more quickly, so you only need about 2 to 3 hours for that. Just a good FYI.
 
Semi-Vegetarian

I've been a semi-vegetarian for 25 years :-wow which means I eat poultry & fish on occasion but primarily eat plant foods. I eat eggs (mostly the whites) & dairy (mostly non-fat or low fat). I don't have problems with dairy & it can be a wonderful source of protein. Neither do I have a problem with wheat, but consume a variety of grains, just as I consume a variety of fruits & vegies.

Last year I took a couple of nutrition courses at a community college to answer many of the questions posted in this thread. With all the hype on low carb, high protein diets, I wondered whether my diet provided the nutrients I needed for my lifestyle. When we analyzed our diets (computer data base), I confirmed that I was getting plenty of protein & mega-doses of all of the nutrients I needed from food (not supplements). I made sure the days I analyzed were vegetarian days. On days I had animal protein like salmon, my protein intake was much higher than I needed (based on athletic needs).

My nutrition professors encouraged a diet based upon plant foods & limited amounts of animal protein. Diets rich in plant foods (fairly unprocessed) provide lots of vitamins, minerals, phyto-chemicals & fiber. Such a diet reduces the risk of heart disease, cancer & diabetes. They (the professors) were anti-supplement because of toxicity issues that one doesn't have to deal with if they are consuming real food. Vegans do have special nutritional challenges & will probably need to use supplements. Children probably should not be raised on a vegan diet. Vegetarians that consume eggs & dairy usually do not have nutritional deficiencies & it is fine for children.

There are several problems associated with animal foods. Animal protein means saturated fat - a health risk. I'll try not to inflame any low carb believers, but most health/nutrition experts feel that there are risks associated with excess protein. Animal foods provide protein & some minerals, but are devoid of vitamins & fiber. Some of us have ethical & environmental reasons for avoiding animal foods.

It's bewildering that Americans are turning to high protein diets when they already consume more protein than nearly all other societies on Earth. America's weight & disease problems aren't from too much carbs but from too much food & too little movement.

Debra
 
Hi Nikki :)

You got lots of great info from other people on the forum. I just wanted to give you a couple of great websites for vegetarians as well as vegans. I've been a vegan for about 5 years, and a vegetarian since I was 3 years old and have never regretted the decision. I feel very fit and healthy!!

The websites:

www.vegsource.com
www.vegan.com
www.drmcdougall.com

There is some great info here and there are also places you can ask questions.

Good luck, I think you'll be happy with your decision :)
 
Timely thread for me

I was a vegetarian years ago, but started eating meat occasionally after my husband and I started dating. My oldest son just decided he wants to be a vegetarian and I am thrilled. One of his younger brothers, who totally idolizes his big brother, also decided to give up meat. I looked at vegweb.com for recipes - what a fantastic site!! I am excited about looking at the other recommended websites.
Thanks Nikki for asking about a vegetarian diet and thanks to all who gave great answers!
Erica
 
This is a very interesting thread. Thank you Lex for your responses, I never thought of cow's milk like that.
I've been a veggie on and off since Junior High school (yikes that was 35 years ago)....mostly on until about 10 years ago when I changed to off, with only one relapse, when I was pregnant in '91 and gave birth in 2/92. I do eat dairy, but hate milk. I have never eaten any kind of fish in my life, not even as a child, cannot get past the smell. With the chicken/red meat/pork thing, my decision and reason for trying to go veggie way back in the 1960's had nothing to do with health reasons. I don't know which is "healthier". For me it was the gross-out factor, and when I finally went veggie 10 years ago for good, that was the reason. When I was pregnant, I did eat *some* meat, but it was hard. I did crave McDonald's sausage biscuits, go figure.

I just wanted to put in my 2 cent's worth that there are many vegetarians out there that are that way for reasons other than health. Everyone always seems to assume that I went veggie because it's "healthier" (I put it in quotes because I really don't know if it is, and I really don't care, I am not eating animal flesh).

Barbara P
 
RE: Timely thread for me

Interesting tidbit; Marilu Henner is supposedly working on a new book, due out soon, about raising children with a really healthy diet. meaning no sodas, heavy sugars, dairy and probably avoiding meat, since that's how she and her family eat. I'll certainly be curious and will buy it, even though I don't have kids yet. It's never too soon to do the research.

It's absolutely possible and actually probable to raise a thorough well-nourished, healthy child even if they are total vegans from birth. (Mother's milk is always ok, of course!) I've known people with the strongest immune systems that were in great shape and had really healthy attitudes towards food that were raised that way and love it. They're grateful. So when your child even initiates it and wants to eat that way, I think it's especially wonderful.

Bravo to all you cool parents who encourage your kids to follow their hearts like that!
 
Oh, didn't read your thread until after I posted above...

I agree, there are lots of compelling reasons not to eat animal flesh that have nothing to do with health. It's a wonderful, bold choice to make and I applaud heartily anyone who takes on the challenge and embraces that in their lives.

Way to go!
 
RE: Timely thread for me

I have 2 of marilu henners books and like them both.
I am curious about her next one.

I want to go vegan but I think I am going to ease into it. First by cutting out dairy, then sugar. I will see how I feel after I have eliminated those and then remove meat.


I am excited about this new adventure.
Thanks everyone for the great responses.

BTW can a vegetarian get lean and defined in the muscles without consuming meat?

Nikki
 

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