Help please--sleeping problems

B

Beets

Cathlete
Hi everyone,
I have not posted in sooo long because I have been very busy with my little one and working. Here is my problem: I have just been reading a book called "Solve your Child's Sleep Problems" by Dr. Ferber. Anyway, i am finding out that i have basically been doing everything wrong with my first baby Colin.

He is not regimented in terms of a nap schedule--in fact, he does not take naps except for when I take him for a 3 mile jaunt in the stroller or when we go for a car ride. I try to put him down in the morning for a nap but as soon as I place him in his crib he cries like I am ripping out his toenails. I wait a few minutes to see if he will settle but no go. It kills me to listen to him cry like that.

At night, he wakes up multiple times, again, crying like he is being tortured. In the past I have just put him to breast thinking that he was hungry but all the books say that by now (he is 6 months old) he should not need a feeding in the middle of the night. I am afraid I have set him up to be dependent on me to fall asleep--that he is using me as a pacifier.

Anway, I need to start breaking the night feeding habit. We tried last night but he cried so hard that he almost threw up and then his breathing was all wierd after--like the broken breathing you do when you sob. Has anyone gone through this? I know that i have to be strong but I am wondering how long it might take to break him of this. ANY advice would be soooo appreciated. I am heartbroken that I have caused these problems and he now has to "pay the price".

Thank you in advance for any help!

Kathi
 
I have personally not gone through that, but my heart goes out to you. Here's an article that I found in babycenter.com I hope this helps!

To feed or not to feed — that is the question in the middle of the night. All the experts agree that if your baby is under 6 months old, you should feed him whenever he wakes at night. Once he's past the 6-month marker, though, avoid that midnight snack. The goal is to separate eating from going to sleep so that if your baby does wake up at night he won't need your breast or a bottle to get back to sleep.


F E E D I N G S - D U R I N G - T H E - N I G H T
Mindell's
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At this age, your baby should be getting enough nutrition during the day that he doesn't always need to eat at night. You may make sleep problems more likely if you continue to breastfeed or give him a bottle. If you're breastfeeding, gradually shorten the time he nurses. Change the time you nurse so it isn't near the time your baby falls asleep, and have someone else put your baby to bed so he doesn't smell your milk. You can cut out bottle-feeding by reducing the amount of formula by one ounce every night. Read more about Mindell.

Ferber's
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Try not to associate feeding your baby with his going to sleep. If your baby falls asleep while he's eating, stop and put him in his crib. It's all right to nurse him to sleep until he's about a year old, but if he needs to be nursed again every time he wakes up at night in order to fall asleep again, he's learning to associate that with sleeping, and you should stop. And at this age, he doesn't need to eat right before bedtime or frequently during the night. To diminish the number of night feedings, over the course of a week, gradually cut back on the amount of breast milk or formula your baby gets at night and increase the time interval between snacks. Read more about Ferber.

The AAP's
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At this age, your baby should be able to go at least eight hours without being fed. When he wakes up at night, try comforting him with your voice, not food, as it will help him learn that nighttime is for sleeping, not eating. Read more about the AAP.

Brazelton's
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At this age, most babies no longer need their late-night feedings. But you can wake your baby for a feeding before your bedtime and then repeat his bedtime routine before you put him back down — it may help him sleep through the rest of the night without waking. Read more about Brazelton.

Sears's
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Fill your baby's tummy before he goes to bed so he'll be less likely to wake up hungry. The first time he wakes up during the night, try to help him settle back to sleep without feeding him. Try patting his back, cuddling him, and singing instead. Read more about Sears.
 
Kathi, you are breaking my heart! Literally, I have this pressure on my chest from reading about your situation.

Our baby is now 14 months and sleeps through the night since he was 6 months old. Sooo, I am racking my brain trying to remember....

Ok. When he was 4 1/2 months old I was still feeding him in the middle of the night....then my ped (who no longer is my ped), yelled at me telling me to cut that out! (he was nasty). I have 2 other children, mind you. What I did is set up a routine. He definitely needs to nap sometime in the afternoon for no more than 1 to 1-1/2 hours or so and hours before bed time. I would bathe him, then rock him, then put him in the crib semi-conscious so he would know what I was doing. I would stay by his side patting him on the back until he passed out...if he cried again, I would continue patting him....When he got up in the middle of the night, I would offer him water...eventually, he would cry and I would ignore it for a bit and he would go back to sleep by himself. It is trial and error...and it breaks your heart to hear him cry, I know, I remember. Just set up a routine like I did and before you know it...you and your husband will get up in the morning surprised that he did not wake up...and worried! ha! what a laugh!

Blessings from our home to yours...Runathon
 
Sleeping problems are so difficult and I have found that what works for one child, may not work for another. Two books that have really helped us are The No Cry Sleep Solution and The Baby Whisperer. The Baby Whisperer is more for parents of newborns I think, but there is a pick-up/put-down method that really worked for us even when my baby was older. I think there is a website also - babywhisperer.com or something like that with a forum and helpful info.

Good luck and I hope that you are all resting well soon!

Erica
 
Kathi,
What we did with our little ones certainly wouldn't be for everyone, but here is our experience.

We did the family bed for the first three (number 4 was an exception because he had a heart defect and severe feeding problems the first year and had to be on a feeding pump at night). Anyway, I nursed them all on demand through the night. My husband and I found this was the best way for every one to get the sleep they needed. I was warned that they would never go to sleep on their own or sleep through the night. As we went through the weaning process, I would gradually deny nighttime feedings. Things were a little rough at times, but since they were still getting lots of cuddling, it wasn't too bad. Eventually, we "weaned" them into their own beds. Again, a couple of rough nights, but we made it through. These kids have no difficulty going to sleep and sleep like logs through the night. They must have bladders of iron, because we don't have bed wetting problems.

Anyway, I realize that what we did is somewhat extreme and I'm not suggesting that you do what we did, but don't stress so much. Your little one will learn to sleep on his own sooner or later. Sometimes I think that "experts" put undue stress on parents.

Anyway, hang in there and keep us posted. I am sure that you will get a lot of good advice from the moms on this board:) .

Maggie
 
Thank you all for your help. I went out and bought the Baby Whisperer book because she doesn't seem as harsh as the Ferber guy in terms of letting him cry it out. I just don't have the heart to let him cry it out for 15+ minutes. Anyway, as if by magic, last night Colin slept for 7 hours straight with barely a squeak. He is down for a nap right now. I think he knows that something was about to change since I bought this new book so he figured he would beat me to the punch!! Ha! Ha! I don't expect this to last but I am enjoying it for as long as it does--if only for a few hours! I will keep you posted as to my progress! Thanks again--it is so nice to be able to come to this site and get such prompt wonderful advice!

kathi
 
Kathi,
Here are just a few more ideas, things we use in our house. I don't know what you've already been trying, so you can take them or leave them, I know how nice it is just to get some ideas from other moms. My babies are now 7yrs and 8mnths and I still nursed my 2nd at least once/night until about 4 or 5 months old, I stopped nursing about 5 1/2 months. R

Bunch feed - I'd try to get all the feedings in in the day
*are your nursing? if so, it's not at all uncommon to feed once/twice per nite as breast milk goes thru their little bodies more quickly than formula
Routine - It's bath, bottle, rock, lullaby music/read, crib with blanket
Fisher Price Aquarium Sounds - it's just very soothing
Blanket - he loves to pull it up to his face when he goes to sleep

My two boys are so different from each other tho. The 2nd is much more laid back than the 1st. The 1st we had to work on more with keeping the routine or he'd get crabby. It is amazing to watch how their personalities come out so quickly after birth! Remember: you're doing a great job, it's hard because you love them so much, and we'll be thinking of you.
 
Been there, used the Ferber method. It worked very well...started out only 5min at a time, gradually increasing it every night/nap. I think that is what he recommends...not just letting them scream for 15 min at the get go. Very rarely had to get to even 10 min without going back in to reassure him, but it was still hard. You aren't alone! Every kid is indeed different. Hard in the middle of the night when you are so tired! Mine had problems with naps....it is hard but it is worth it to address this problem NOW. You will be so glad when it is over...shouldn't take more than a week or two as I remember? You will feel so happy when you can put your little one down peacefully for his nap, in his little routine. Meanwhile other friends who refuse to let their little ones even fuss even a tiny bit to learn to put themselves to sleep will still be putting the kid in the car, driving around, etc. before each and every nap...

Pay the price now...you are doing the right thing addressing this now, don't feel bad about the fact you "let it go" this "long"...we are all moms, it is a learning experience...who would have thought something as simple as sleep could be so hard? This is the loving thing to do. Stay strong.

Jen
 
My only child is now 9 years ago. When he was an infant, I could not stand to hear his cries. I ran to him immediately. The thought of him being unhappy made me sad to the point of tears. I was a full-time student at the time & my husband felt that waking up in the middle of the night is the mothers duty. Our baby was 8 months old, and still waking up several times in the middle of the night, dependent on me to rock him back to sleep. Finally, I let him scream himself to sleep for about a week & then he slept through the night.

A good friend of mine let her 3 infant children cry through the night almost day 1 from the hospital. I think that is a little excessive, but to each it's own.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I plan to let my next baby cry through the night. Maybe beginning at 6 weeks? I don't know how I'll decipher when the right time is, but I DO know, I won't wait eight months!

Good luck & keep us posted.

Melanie
Due 1/25/04

" Take care of your body like it will last a lifetime. Take care of your soul like it will last for eternity"
 
First of all....

.....take a deep breath, pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself on the safe delivery of a healthy little one.

I have a 9 month old son who sleeps through the night.This was as a result of a lot of controlled crying when he was younger which was and is heart breaking - but it worked.I am not familiar with the Ferber book but swear by Gina Ford's "Contented little baby" which WORKS. Be prepared - it is hard work but you will get there.

Best of love and hugs your way - I understand,

Fitnik
 
Kathi, I am by no means an expert, but I see nothing wrong with feeding your baby at night. Some of these experts worry me. Every baby is different and may need more food than others. Your baby is only 6 months old. My son did not sleep through the night until he was 11 1/2 months old. It was a very difficult time for me because I work full time and I would get up with him at night. I was so happy when he finally did. His night wakenings were so bad that I was happy when he would get up only once at night. He would mostly get up 3 times during the night. For the first 11 months he was always so hungry that he needed to eat still every 3 to 4 hours and he had cereal in his bottle every since he was 3 weeks old because his formula would not stay down otherwise. I would also feed him every night before bedtime. He would only eat 4-6 ounces of formula at a time no matter how much I tried to encourage him to eat more. You would think that he would be a butterball with all of his mini-meals, but he was not chubby at all.

I did however let my son cry when I lay him down for the night, no more than 45 minutes to an hour at night. I think he was about 6 months old when we started this. It took us a week for him to establish a routine and get use to going to bed on his own. Now every night we kiss him, tell him we love him and that it is bedtime and lay him down in his crib. Afterwards I cover him with his blanket and he goes right to sleep, no crying. It has really paid off us starting this nightly routine. The hardest part is the beginning letting the baby cry, but it is worth it for the end result.

Good luck. It is never easy to listen to your little one cry. Do what you think is best and if you think your little one needs more food then don't be afraid to give it to him.

Just a thought, do you think that your milk is drying up and that is why Colin is crying bloody murder? My SIL when her baby was 4 months old kept doing the same thing. Come to find out her body was slowly decreasing milk production and he was not getting enough to eat. Once she switched over to formula he slept through the night immediately.
 
Hi Erica,
Just had to post and say thank you for the suggestion about the Baby Whisperer book. I went out and bought and it and read it cover to cover. I am sooooo guilty of "accidental parenting" and she gives some good ideas for solving the problems I have inadvertently caused. I tried the pick up/put down method for his nap yesterday and it did not work--tried for 45 minutes. But, today I did it again, and he fell asleep within 20 minutes. I realize it is only day one but I will savor it all the same! I will keep at it and hopefully, I can have my little Baboo sleeping peacefully in his crib for naps and bedtime in no time. Thanks again for the suggestion! I'll keep you all posted on the progress!

Kathi and Colin
 
:)
Thanks for the update! I'm so glad that you had some success - hope that it continues and that you are all well rested soon!! :)

Erica
 
Hi all,
Just an update on Colin's sleeping issues: Since I bought the "BAby Whisperer" book the other day, I have tried using the pick up/put down method and I have to say that so far it is working like a charm. For those of you who are familiar with the Baby Whisperer, Tracy Hogg categorizes babies based on their personalities. My little Colin is an Angel/Textbook baby so he theoretically should adapt to his new sleep routine very quickly--so far he has. He slept for 2 1/2 hours yesterday at nap time and went to sleep for bedtime at 7:45 until 12:00 midnight. I gave him a "dream feed" and then he slept until 4:45am. I again gave him the breast, he went right off to sleep again when placed in the crib and lasted until 7:30am. Today, he went down for a nap at 10:45 and we shall see how long this one lasts. This is a major milestone because I could NEVER get him to lay down for naps in his crib. He would nap when we went out for a walk or for car ride doing errands but never for a regular nap in his crib. NOw, Mommy just has to learn to not wake up every hour to check on the little one!! Thank you all again so much for your suggestions!! For anyone else having sleep problems, I HIGHLY recommend the Baby Whisperer book.

Kathi and Colin
 
I'm right with you....

as you speak, I'm with you :) My little guy is 5 mos old and I have tried some of the no cry solution without much luck...but in fairness to the book, we've been on a weeks vacation, 3 overnight or slightly longer trips and some days there isn't much consistency. When we were on vacation he slept wonderfully (of course he did...mommy didn't have to get up the next day!) I also breastfeed and he will take a bottle FAIRLY well during the day, but he definitely prefers mommy. I believe he has reversed his feeding schedule which happens sometimes to working mommies who pump and nurse (I'm much too lazy to switch to the bottle and so far he still has MSPI). We also have to deal with the fact that he was affected by reflux problems until I got my diet under control (had to avoid soy AND milk-but I'm 10 lbs + less than prepregnancy at 5 mos!!!) so he slept in his car seat with the straps taken off. So now we also are trying to get Joey used to laying nearly flat (we have the crib at an angle)
But I'm Going to have to check out the baby whisperer book...now that we won't have any overnight trips until mid Oct., maybe we can get something figured out! Keep me posted!
Julie and little Joe Bob :D
 
RE: I'm right with you....

Okay,
I jumped the gun with the Baby Whisperer "miracle"! Since my last post where I said that Colin had slept mostly through the night, he has not lasted more than 2.5 hours each night since. I am at my wits end. I am a personal trainer who trains clients in the early morning and have to get up everyday anywhere from 3:30am (yes, that's 3:30 am!) to 5:00 am. My little angel is waking me up every 1.5 to 2.5 hours every night. When he wakes up, he is usually very hard to settle down--he screams and cries really hard. As soon as he calms down and I try to place him back in the crib, he arches his back and starts crying again. I am sticking with the Baby Whisperer pick up/put down method in hopes that it just hasn't "sunk in" yet and that he will turn a corner any day now. I am running on empty in the sleep department though. Hopefully, something positive will happen soon. Maybe he is teething? Wouldn't he be cranky pretty much all the time if his gums were sore? He only gets really upset at night. The other thought is just that he is overtired but how do I prevent that when he won't sleep or take long naps?? AAAGGGHH! I feel like such a failure as a mother--like I should know how to solve these problems by now. I'll keep posting on my progress.

Kathi
 
you're NOT a failure

to give me perspective, my mom said that I was 7 YEARS old before I slept through the night....I bet she's thinking what poetic justice! I ordered the baby whisperer, and he started in the crib last night, but spent the last hours tossing and turning in my bed (waking up DH too, oh well, too bad!)
Teething is always a possibility-he doesn't have anything to distract him from the pain during the night....and overtired is never a good thing for my Joe, if he naps well during the day, he will likely sleep a little better at night!
take care
julie
(but I am starting to almost dread bedtime!!!):-(
 
RE: I'm right with you....

Kathi:

It is really hard I know. I felt like "a failure as a mother" too, but you can lead a horse to water, but....you can't make them sleep! I remember thinking "Whoever thought that something so simple as sleep could make me question my abilities?"

In my humble opinion, here goes...

It is likely he may be teething, since he is 6 months old. Try nightly dosages of tylenol. Also try that gum numbing stuff for babies, the teething gel. I breastfed 3 kids, the older two til they were a year, this one I am breastfeeding he is 4 months. If you are bfeeding him regularly during the day it is unlikely your supply is low unless you aren't eating properly or are on some kind of meds. I say this just based on personal experience, lots of buddies who bfeed, etc...not from any kind of guarantee or education.

Feed him every 2 hrs or so during the day, and start him on cereal if you haven't already. He is old enough for rice cereal (you may be doing this already). He ought to be sleeping thru by now, in my opinion, of course, and definitely should be getting enough calories during the day. Problem with feeding them a lot at night is, they get soaking wet and wake up from peeing, etc. too, because they have eaten so much recently, ongoing, throughout the nite.

He needs to learn to sleep in his crib for naps as well as at night. I remember from your original post he only sleeps in the car and in the stroller. You need to fix that if you haven't already (sorry, I am whipped and may have missed that somewhere) so he associates his CRIB with sleep. Both will help you solve each other...does that make sense? Babies can be stubborn. NO MORE CAR SLEEPING OR STROLLER SLEEPING if you can possibly avoid it. You may have to gum up your schedule to stay home and get him on a schedule...

All of my kids' schedule was around like this when they were 6 months:

Up and nursed at 6:30 or so.
bfast, play etc. bfeeding.
Nap at 9:30-11.
bfeeding, lunch, play etc. bfeeding
Nap at 2:30-4
bfeeding, dinner, bfeed
Bedtime at 7 pm.
Woken up to bfeed at 11 pm

repeat!!

I vehemently protected this schedule. Irritating to friends and family but my kids slept like champs! And they went down (ultimately) without a fuss.

This is a rough idea. HE MAY be overtired as you say if he isn't napping properly. You just have to stick with your schedule and whatever method you are applying....I recommend "Solving Your child's Sleep Problems" by Ferber. Try the library...it is an old book.

Some kids are stronger willed. Stay stronger.

I hope this helps.
Jen
 
RE: I'm right with you....

Hi Kathi-

Hope things are improving for you. Let us know! Please don't feel like a failure as a mother - sleep issues can be so difficult! I've found that sometimes I just have to do what's best for short term success so that I can function and worry about the long term effects at a different time.

I'm not sure, but I think my daughter (my 4th child) started sleeping worse at 6 months and my theory was separation anxiety. It's so hard when they are little and can't tell us what they need!

Thinking of you and hoping that you are getting some rest...

Erica
 
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