?'s for "Heavy Lifters"

A

Amadeus

Cathlete
Hi gang, I've been doing tank top rotation for 9 weeks now and have steadily improved my strength. I am consistently lifting heavier than ever before. I am going to need some help here.;-

First of all mentally. It is tough to keep lifting this heavy week after week. How do you do it? It's hard to get psyched up enough to do it sometimes.

When I finish this in 2 weeks I'll move onto Slow and Heavy for 3 weeks. My God, I'm kind of doing this all ready! But I know the count and the focus are different. Is S & H what I need to build strength to get me to the next level? I sure hope so.

I have figured out that I may have to reduce reps in order to use good form with my weekly rounds of P/S, MIS and CTX. How low do you go? How heavy do you lift?

I know we are programmed to "max out" at a certain point as far as strength goes. What is your point? Have any of you reached it? Do you ever reach a point where you're at a total plateau?

Equipment help: I need those little magnetic plates for moving between weights. I need a "squat rack" (?) I believe it's called. Where can I buy them? (In my dreams I would have a Smith Machine and a cable pulley machine, oh well.)

Time help: If you have any ways to reduce "downtime" caused by pausing to change barbell plates, or a special set-up to your equipment, let me know.

I'd love to hear from any of you! I know a lot of you lift much heavier than I do. I do about 40lbs chest and back, 35 legs, 25 biceps, triceps and 30 shoulders. WOW this is a huge accomplishment for me. I didn't realize it 'till I saw it in writing.

Thanks so much, I love our little community we've built here.:)

Julie
 
Hi Julie!

You sound like you have made a lot of accomplishments. Congratulations!

When talking about long-term results and programs, "periodization" is a good topic to learn about. There is a lot written on the subject. Some like to take a week off and then start back at lower weights (than they ended with) and go for another 2-3 month cycle. This is supposed to bring better results than just lifting lifting lifting week after week. The reasons could be psychological. Also something similar to tha law of diminishing returns.

I'm sure others will have much more wisdom to add.

-Connie
 
Julie,

I don't think I am in your "league" as of yet, but am interested to know how long it took you to gain this kind of strength. Do you do 30lbs. each arm, for say, dumbell overhead presses?? Or do you load your barbell at 30 lbs?? I am assuming if you are doing Cathe that your weight breakdowns are reflecting barbell weights??

I guess i am a little confused because I thought the TTR was more for endurance.. to really lean you out in that area. Are you slowing the cadence of the reps to use maximum weight?? I wonder, if you are, what effect has this had on your muscle hypertrophy..is it good, or did you mostly just get good strength gains??

I really would like to get as strong as i can but am hesitant because I also want to work on muscle hypertrophy. I know the programs for these two goals are not the same. Do you use those poundages for all reps in all the workouts for the TTR??

Man, I would just love to see a picture of you, cuz you probably are really buff by now, huh?? Does anyone on this forum have any good pics of themselves, like before and after??? I have always wondered this. If I was computer savvy enough, I would post my own!! I would love to see the results that COULD happen from Cathe tapes...

But please Julie, even though I really don't have any good advice, I would love to hear what the others say and what your results will be. Keep us informed!!

Oh, and if you are really into muscle building there is a book another poster here recommended to me, I think her name was Noel..it is called "More Muscle" by Kenneth Sprague and is a great book for distinguishing between all the different weight workouts..strength, endurance, and muscle hypertrophy. You sound like you would really benefit from reading it...Janice
 
About a year and a half ago I went on a heavy lifting and light cardio program. It DID get hard to get pysched. I was doing deadlifts (the power lifter kind from the floor, not the straight leg kind Cathe does) with 80 pounds by the end. Sometimes I would just look at that bar....then, I'd eventually do it. I am inclined to think that if you are at the point where it is hard to get psyched that it is time to do a different kind of work out. Yes, the periodizatin concept. I have heard body builders say that you can't ALWAYS be at your best lifting or your leanest. You just can't be at your peak all of the time. I believe if you keep up the protein and don't do overzealous amounts of cardio that you won't lose your muscle.

I quit my program because I was totally frustrated by factors other than my strength which limited me: For example. my inability to get the barbell over my head for heavier squats or in proper position for heavier chest presses. Also, my forearms got really sore trying to hold such heavy dumbbells for lunges, which I'd made my heaviest leg exercise. And then I needed weights in between what I had. Plus, I realized I was constantly sore all over. I probably really over did it. At the end, I bought new Cathe videos and gave it up. Point is, I understand that you need new equipment. Sorry, don't know where to buy it.

I am also inclined to think the "downtime" spent changing plates and such is good for your muscles to recover a bit. I had a little diagram of which bars and plates and combinations produced which amount of weight so I didn't have to think about it, just do it.

Sorry I couldn't answer your questins really. But I thought you might like to hear my experience a bit. Good luck with your program! Jeanne
 
Hi Julie!

Here is a link or two for you. http://www.bodytrends.com/plmmain.htm
http://www2.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/
http://www.fractionalplates.com/
http://www.cyberpump.com/index.shtml

Some may be helpful, some may not. :) Personally, I think you should take at least a week or two off from lifting between your tank top rotation and the S&H rotation. You wil get burned out BIG TIME! Especially if you're already feeling kinda "un"psyched about your workouts. Take time off before you get injured. JMHO Take care -- hope you enjoy these sites. :)

Hollie
 
RE: Hi Julie!

I'm a bit late with this, but if anyone is still reading, I wanted to tell you some ways I reduce downtime and equipment purchases.

One thing I have done for years is to hold two dumbells in one hand. This allows some quick combinations like 12 + 5 and 20 + 5. I have a friend who can't do this because her hands are too small, but I have no problem, so I guess it depends on finger length.

I have small weights (2 1/2), one pound wrist weights, and 2 1/2 pound ankle weights. These can be slipped on and off the barbell outside the fixed weight plates. So, a 35 pound barbell becomes 40 or 42 in a very short time. I can also hold the one pound wrist weight with my 7 lb dumbell to make an 8 pounder and so forth. By putting soft ankle/wrist weights on the bar you can drop them quickly to the floor without damaging anything.

There is a workout where Cathe does French presses with 8 lbs. I start with eight, but drop the one pound wrist weights towards the end and finish the set with seven without missing a beat. So cool.

Inside each and every Cathe tape that has weight lives a slip of paper with what weights I will use. I set up everything I will need, and know at which points I will have to do creative things.

Lastly, I attach two 2 1/2 lb ankle weights to each other and then velcro them very very comfortably around my waist when I need to put more weight on my legs than I can possibly hoist onto my shoulders. Now, I can do 60 lb squats and lunges for S/H Legs.
 
Hi Janice

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-02 AT 05:04PM (Est)[/font][p]You are so sweet to even think that I might be buff, but I'm not there yet, still in the "arriving stage". I have seen great improvements in muscle development but I've not heard any positive comments from anyone else. I'm also not really one to "show off", either.

As far as lifting goes, before I was doing TTR I had been using PS series 1x per week. I was getting results, but not great ones. About ten weeks ago I switched over TTR and saw much more as far as strength and mass go. I am an ectomorph, and don't gain muscle easily. I am also experimenting with my level of cardio. I have seen even greater increases in muscle when I trimmed my cardio sessions back to 3 a week versus five intense sessions a week. For me, TTR is definitely strength not endurance. Maybe some time in the future it would become that. But, because I have followed Marlene123's lead, I am doing PS upper body as heavy as possible. As Marlene said PS is the cornerstone on this program. I use THE heaviest possible weights for PS and trim down somewhat for CTX and MIS upper body. I am surpassing Cathe in all departments as far as poundage goes on PS. 40 lbs on the bar, 20 lbs dumbells for all chest work, back work is 42.5 bar and 22.5 dumbells, shoulders were 15 lb dumbells and 30lb bar, but today I tried 20lb dumbells just to see if I could do and I did do 2 sets of six reps each, and then dropped to 12 lbs for the last set. It felt okay, so I'll try and reps to that weight next week.

One thing that I have "gleaned" from hanging here is to switch over to more endurance oriented tapes like PH or BodyMax to develop definition when I am satisfied with my "size". Lifting three times a week has made a huge difference for me.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I will definitely look for it. Sounds like it's right up my alley.

If there's anything else you want to know, just fire away!
 
Julie,
As a resistance trainer from waaaaay back (I lifted for the first time when I was in Jr. High in the mid 70s), I can tell ya that there are going to be times that you will be sick of lifting. These points frequently coincide with times that you are overtraining--staleness is a cardinal sign!

This doesn't mean to quit with strength training altogether, but it does mean that you need to take a short break, vary your workouts or both. Periodization does work very well to prevent burnout. The way each cycle is set up depends on your goals. And, it can be a challenge to use workout videos in a truly cyclic manner.

Is your goal maximal strength, endurance or hypertrophy? The specific methods vary, depending on goals. I'll be glad to try to help if I know what you're shooting for!
Maribeth
 
Okay now I'm watching this thread. By the way my goals are to go from goal to goal. I want to look good and be strong and injury-proof. I have to look in people's mouths all day and they don't always turn their heads as far as I want them to, so core strength is an issue.

I am not Julie, so don't let me hijack this thread, Maribeth! I want to learn more though.
-Connie
 
RE: Hi Janice

OK, Julie, now what I really want to know is...how in the world do you use 15 lbs for shoulders?? Are you referring to side laterals?? I would be interested to know what you attribute this strength gain to!! I have been cathying for over 6 mos and 5 lb. dumbells on side laterals still kick my butt. I am pretty good progressing with the rest of my weights, so what gives???? How long have you been lifting for?? Would you mind telling me your height and weight?? I guess that wouldn't really matter, but I just wonder what I am doing wrong. I want strength gains such as yours!!! WAAAHHHH..maybe I need TTR!!!! I just ordered the 23 pack DVD's so I will be pumpin' soon!! So, you do exactly TTR ( I forget it, but i will search) and no additional weights?? I wonder if I would improve if I did like drop sets, where I start out lighter more reps and go lower really heavy wt. Is this like what you do or you try to stay at the same weight for all reps?? I am sorry so many questions but curious minds want to know!!!! Thanks, Janice
 
I have experienced the onset of apathy that often accompanies overtraining. In fact, I'm currently in a slump. These downtimes for me are seasonal. I don't handle the heat well, not at all! Then, in the winter, the low light levels start to drag me down. I usually cut back on the intensity and duration of my workouts when I'm experiencing these periods of low motivation. My goal becomes to maintain a fitness routine, period. I don't even think about making significant gains. These periodic breaks refresh my mind and body, I eventually grow restless with going easy, and the next cycle begins.

Having been engaged in some sort of fitness routine through the years, I have learned to expect these cycles, don't panic when they arrive, and fully accept the rest and gains that they offer.
 
RE: Hi Janice

15 pounds are for the overhead presses. It's taken a long time but it finally feels like a good weight for me. Side laterals are at 12 pounds, but they are tough no matter what weight I use.

I began lifting about 10 years ago with the FIRM. And with Cathe about 3 years ago. Of course the seriousness and intensity of this endeavor has steadily risen for me over the years. I don't think it would take this long for you to achieve these gains, though. Most of it has happened while I did the TTR.

The way I've been making these gains is to make sure I do just a little bit more every time I do the workout (progressive overload). I keep a specific log every day and record what weight, how many reps and IF it felt good (what I mean by "good" is that it was challenging, but the final reps were still in perfect form), I put a little happy face next to it. When I see two happy faces in a row, it's time to increase poundage. When I increase poundage, I try to get 6 reps at the new weight and anything over that is considered a "bonus". I may not be able to use the new heavier weight on all two or three sets, that's fine I'll drop down. But the point is I might make it up to the new weight just on rep at a time. Yes, I am very patient. Now, some days I am as strong as a bull ox and able to do a lot more, other days I have to cut back and go lower. I notice eight hours of sleep is extremely important, and I must not overdo on cardio. Or I'll sacrifice muscle, my body tends to give it up easily.

Yes, I do Tank Top Arms Rotation, and heavens no, no additional weights on that one, it's a "barn burner". I found a thread on it dated 4/22/02, Jillybean was the original poster, and the title of the thread was "Rotations for Great Definition." Check it out in the archives.

BTW, I am about 5'7", I weigh 139 today, my wieght hasn't changed much, but my clothes are fitting better;-).

I promise you'll just LOVE the DVD's. Especially for weight
training.

I'm curious about you're mass building routine . . . is that what you're doing now? What does that involve?

LOL, Julie
 
Hi Maribieth!

I was in Jr. High in the mid seventies too. What a freaky decade!

My goal is to add mass and create definition. Strength gains are great, but not really anything I need to aim for as far as my personal life goes. If I was like an EMT or construction worker that might be different. I know it sounds shallow, but I just want to look great in my fourth decade and my kids are big enough that I can finally do something for me. If I could look like Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 I'd be in absolute heaven (somebody pinch me, I'm dreaming). If you want to "throw me a bone" I'd appreciate it.

And I know you're an ectomorph too;-), so I'm wondering how to strike a balance between muscle gain and fat loss. Seems those two are almost in oppostion to each other.

Thanks, Maribeth
Julie
 
Connie

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-02 AT 11:12AM (Est)[/font][p]I have to know why you look in people's mouths. Inquiring Minds Need to Know.
LOL, Julie
 
RE: Cyberfit!

Hi Cyberfit:

Just about everything you said applies to me, too! I go up and down and all around as far as weight-training and fitness goes. Sometimes I'm jiggy with it, sometimes I'm not. It fluctuates with my moods. I also go through low cycles in the summer -- the heat really tires me out faster and hence depresses me. And getting up at 4 a.m. on a cold dark winter morning in a cold apartment doesn't excite me as it used to. (All I can say is, thank goodness for coffee -- dunno how people can give it up. The thought of it is the only thing that gets me out of bed in the morning.

After all the years I've spent working out, I just try to stay on a fitness program. Am I moving? Am I working hard? Can my quads and feet take it? Good enough!!

Looking forward to Fall, my favorite time of the year!
Patricia
 
Yesiree, Patricia!

I'm with you, my Canadian friend! Not sure I could EVER give up my 3cups/day! I used to have the hardest time getting out of bed in the morning UNTIL the invention of the automatic timer on a coffee pot! Just knowing it is sittig out there piping hot and ready to go, I'm out of bed in no time now! Okay, I know this it TOTALLY off subject from the original post! Sorry! http://www.plaudersmilies.de/happy/coffee.gif

Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH http://www.plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
 
Hi, Julie!

Hope Connie doesn't mind me answering for her, but I'm sure you are wondering why in the world she'd be looking in people's mouths! She is a dental hygienist.

Your-Friend-In-Fitness, DebbieH http://www.plaudersmilies.de/wavey.gif If You Get The Choice To Sit It Out Or Dance...I Hope You DANCE!!!
 
RE: Cyberfit!

Hi Patricia. 4 a.m.??? Yikes! I'm in awe of all you early morning exercisers. I pretty much don't function on a physical level before 10 or 11 a.m. :-rollen. You have a lot more motivation than you give yourself credit for. I need the coffee too.

Yep, Fall is my favorite time of year as well (and it's welcome to come any time now!!!) I'm longing for cool, crisp air... bonfire weather...yipppeeee. Ahhh, only six or eight more weeks!
 
RE: Connie

Yes, Debbie's right! I am in a profession full of people on disability, with tendon (tendin?) itis, carpal tunnel syndrome, back problems/surgery, etc.

Since working out with Cathe I have been pain free.
-Connie
 
RE: Hi Maribieth!

Ahh.....Linda Hamilton in Terminator 2 or Angela Basset in "Whats love got to do with it". I have that same dream, Julie!!

Asking about my "mass building" routine would be insinuating that it possibly classifies as a routine. It does not. Shamefully I will tell you that I keep track of nothing. I just do whatever video grabs me which is usually MIS or PH. I didn't have many of the other strength tapes until today. Usually I eek in weights twice a week. I read your post and realized that I think what I DONT do is what is making me feel very unacomplished. I think I need to track my workouts as you do so that I can see some improvement. I make the mistake most ofen of starting too heavy and having to move DOWN in weight. Of course this makes me feel like a failure. When I seriously begin TTR I am going to keep a log as you do and I will give you the results. I always thought of myself as a mesomorph (think Mary Lou Retton) but I will tell you, since I started lifting I have had to rethink that. Results just are not there. What would you recommend???? TTR and a weight log???....Janice
 
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