Out of control kids??

naughtoj

naughtoj

Cathlete
Anyone have kids that are so out-of-control that no one wants you to bring them to visit?

My sis just came over with hers and while I love her to death, her kids are way out of control. Worse yet, she is a stay at home mom who, for whatever reason, can't get control of them and totally denies that they are the way they are. I know she *knows* though..from how people act. You know. Father is never home cuz he works long hours and when he is home he plays video games (rolling eyes here). My sis spends most of her time gabbing on the phone ignoring her kids. As a family, they spend very little time together..all of them..in the same place, at the same time. Very rare.

I don't have kids and I will be the absolute LAST person to even presume I know how to raise them, but what irks me is how she doesn't seem to even respect my rules in my house when she brings them over. They just run around playing with all my stuff, eating anything they can get their hands on and leaving the evidence behind. She makes a lame attempt at cleaning it up before she leaves but the house is still a mess afterwards and between all the yelling at the kids it's like no one seemed to have any fun!

What keeps parents from dealing with their kids after they know that they have gone somewhat "sour" before the kids take total control? Like my sister... she gives them whatever they want because it is easier than the hissy fit they will throw. If they act like they are hungry when they come over (they just ate McDonalds right before they got to my house) and I say, "No, you guys just ate", my sister will totally ignore me, take food out of my fridge, tell her kids to sit down and start hacking off cheese or something for them to eat. It's like HEEELLLOOO!! They are NOT hungry!! Just bored! What irks me is the fact that she ignores my rules only because she can't get it together or stand up to her kids! Now, why couldn't she just say, "Now you guys just ate. We will stay a little bit and you can eat when we get home".????? THE END!!!!!???

I love her. I love her kids. But honestly, no one in my family really wants her to come around with the kids anymore because of this! It is kind of sad. And then she acts like there is something wrong with YOU when I say something to them, like I just don't understand that that "is how kids are". I don't think so. My sister's children are really the only experience I have with kids but I will tell you they have formed much of my opinion regarding not wanting children. And when I see other people's kids, at a party or something, I think they are drugged! I'm like, "why are those kids so calm??" LOL. Even her own friends limit the time her kids are around their kids for fear (I think) that their kids will learn from her kids.

Anyone have kids or know kids/parents that are like this? How do you deal with it and still maintain a relationship? Usually I try to just go to her house. Their really is no way to tell her how I feel without her totally freaking out (and then she feels like a bad mom..you know the story).

Thought I would ask since many of you I know have small children....
 
Janice, most of the people I know have kids, and when we are invited to their homes, there's always a place or a room that the kids can trash while the grown-ups socialize. My son in only 4, and many of the birthday parties we've gone to are held in a gym, where there is a lot of room for kids to run around and crash on without hurting themselves.

Yes, kids will be kids, but at the same time (and this is just my opinion -- take note my son is in therapy for lacking self-calming and self-regulation abilities -- there are a lot of kids like him, and these are the kids who get left behind in school and in life if they don't get help while it's early) there is a line between rough play and being outright rude. My son plays with a boy two houses from us. His mom and I have an agreement. If our sons don't behave in each other's homes, we send the other's child home. No questions, no hard feelings.

I live far away from my family and hardly see them, so I don't get into your kind of situation. But when we are at someone's house and my son misbehaves, we always tell him he has two choices: a) get his act together, or b) we'll leave and his fun would be over. Giving him a choice somehow gives him a semblance of control over his actions and he always chooses to behave.

Pinky
 
Laziness. I don't understand that behavior either. I think it's laziness and the desire to avoid having a child angry at you. It takes much less energy to allow a child to do whatever than to say no, give consequences to their bad actions and actually follow-through on the actions.

I have an advantage over my daughter in that I really couldn't care less if she's mad at me. So, if she misbehaves and is told the consequences yet still misbehaves, I immediately enforce the law. She gets mad, tells me she hates me, I tell her I don't care and that she knew what would happen and she chose to receive the punishment. Then she's mad for a few minutes, but gets over it.

But I can understand the temptation to give in. Sometimes I'll give in if I can't think of a really GOOD reason to not allow a certain behavior. Like I realize I'm saying no, just for the sake of saying no.

I'm lucky that I've had an easy child. Relatively easy. All children test you, but you've got to establish your dominance. I'm sure boys can be more difficult, but you've got to let them know you're the Alpha in the pack - otherwise they will never respect you. I can't stand to see a child who disprespects his parents. My oldest nephew is one of them. I'd like to slap that kid!

You have the right to enforce laws at your house. You should let these boys know what will and will not be tolerated and FOLLOW-THROUGH!!!! You're not the mother, obviously, but kids seem to obey non-parents better. And tell your sister that if she isn't going to enforce your rules, you will. Either she'll start behaving herself (mostly out of embarassment), or she won't come over anymore. Problem is solved either way.
 
Tell her to call the Supernanny (from ch7)! :) I'm serious though. Did you ever see how she gets those kids in shape? I was even going through something with my two year old throwing stuff and I implemented her naughty square/mat. It worked!!! It broke my heart, but I knew it was wrong to just let him get away with it. BTW, I did timeouts with my older ones when they were little and I think it's the same thing. One minute per age for the naughty mat/time out. Does your sister use any form of discipline with them? I bet if she spent more time with them reading books, going to the library, parks, etc. She would see a big change in them. They might be trying to get her attention the negative way. It also sounds like there's no boundaries, so they do whatever they please.

Maybe you could buy her the book? Maybe she just doesn't know where to start? All the parents on that show are so glad that SN has come in and saved them.

I know what you mean when you have kids over that trash your house. I think, geez , is this what they do at home?!!

My issue is that my husband gives in a lot more than I do. And his parents. I'm home with them all day, so I have to be the strict one. They just know what is expected from me. I lose my cool a little when dh's parents come around (which is a lot) because my kids get a little out of control. I pull them aside and warn them that we will leave and that usually brings them back to reality. Sometimes it doesn't, then it's time to break out the wine!}(

HTH

Dallas
 
Donna,
I have two boys and they are one of the well behaved kids in public and at home. They're 3 yrs old and one year old. I kind of don't like the fact you said it's more common with boys as you only have a girl. My cousin's daughters especially one of them is one of the biggest brats I've ever seen but her son is well behaved. She has 3 kids, 2 girls and a boy. I've seen a lot of other girls who are brats. I'm not saying boys are better but it seems to me more girls are brats than boys especially since there are more girls than boys. I definitely blame the parents for the kids behaviors. Even though parents do enforce laws, some kids are just brats.

I personally think a lot of parents are lazy and they're afraid of their kids hating them. I personally do not give a crap if my kids hate me when I say no or teach them manners, etc. They need to learn. Kids are not friends for parents, and I see a lot of parents wanting to be best friends with their kids. I'm close with my mother but I don't see her as a friend a lot of times. There are just some things you don't talk about with your mother.

It's a shame a lot of parents don't teach their kids. I know there are a lot of good mothers on here.

Anyway, I hope everyone is having a great weekend. Take care!

Lisa
 
Lisa - I said, "I'm sure boys can be more difficult". I see many boys that are well behaved, and many girls who aren't. I said that because any time I mention that my daughter is not too difficult, moms of difficult boys say that boys are more difficult. It must be their way of telling me that they've got it tougher and I wouldn't be able to handle it in their shoes. You know that type of woman, no one can EVER understand what they're going through because they have it harder than everyone else. I think they only have it harder because they make it harder. But...I also think that some kids are just easier by the personality they have. My daughter has a pretty easy-going personality. But boy...she has tried my patience a few times and has been met with a snarling dog!

My SIL has 2 boys and they are wonderful. And my sister's youngest boy, the brother of the one I said I'd like to slap, is a great kid. So I don't think boys are brattier than girls. There are definite inborn differences in the way they act though.

I think that some parents have a tendancy to be easier on girls, especially if they have boys in the family too. I personally don't think either should be treated differently. I treat my daughter the same as I would had I had a boy.
 
Time outs are excellent! I used that to get my daughter to stop hitting when she was 3. One minute for each year, but the timer doesn't start until she's sitting in the chair and quiet. If she's yelling or crying, I stop the timer and don't start it until she's quiet. She sat in that chair for a half hour once. It was actually great...I got to read some of my book! That only happened once, though, and she learned.

She never hits anymore. Well, almost never. Once in a great while she'll slip - and into time-out she goes. I think I've had to use time-out on her only a couple times since she's been 4. And I only use it as a punishment for behavior that's completely unacceptable - i.e. hitting. They warn against over using it, as it can lose its effectiveness.

You know Janice, there's an excellent book that I got when my daughter was a baby. It's called, "How to Behave So Your Kids Will". There are some excellent strategies in there. I've used a few of them with wonderful results. Age 2 was difficult, but age 3 was harder. 4 is pretty easy, but she likes to argue now. Just for the sake of arguing. I'm sure that's only going to get worse as she gets older - no matter how much I tell her that I don't want to hear it.
 
Hi Janice,

It's a very tricky situation. Nobody takes critisism about their children very well. Especially if the person giving the constructive critisism is childless.

How old are the kids? Did the kids eat all of the McDonalds they were served? Maybe the mom was giving them cheese because they didn't eat enough. Maybe she was concerned they were still hungry. Kids will trash houses, that's a fact of life. Maybe your sister feels really comfortable with you, and if they leave a little crumbs, she might think you won't mind. I am sure this mom wants the best for her kids, but lacks some parenting skills. She probably feels lonely, so maybe that's why she is on the phone all day. I have had moments of being on the phone all morning, or staying on the computer too long. When you are a SAHM, you tend to feel lonely sometimes, and need adult connection.

My boys are relatively calm. People comment on how well behaved they are. I really don't know how this happened. :) These kids are your family, and when they are in your home, try to enforce your rules as much as you can. You really can't control the way they are raised, unless your sister is receptive to your advice. Like Donna, I don't mind laying down the law. No means no, and they get it. They still whine a little from time to time, but mostly there is harmony in the household. Good luck with your nephews, and all you can do is love them, and set a good example.

Lori
 
Hi Janice. I don't have kids, but we have a similar situation in my family. My sister was in a terrible marriage for a while and went through a really nasty divorce. The kids, now 9 and 12, have been out of control ever since they could walk. She and the kids have been in therapy for years, but it doesn't seem to help. Last winter at a family event at my dad's, her youngest picked up a piece of crystal that my late mom had cherished, and walked around the house wiht it, threatening to throw it on the floor until he got what he wanted. The whole family threatened him with punishment and he eventually put it down--and got no punishment from my sister. He also sat at the family dinner, cursing. My sister invited me to go to Disney World with her and her kids this summer, and I turned her down--she's constantly yelling and angry, the kids are constantly acting out. It drives me nuts to spend even a day at her house. I stopped inviting her to my place years ago, when she couldn't keep her kids from going after my child-phobic cat. Even when I would lock the cat in my bedroom (with his litterbox and food), they would sneak in there and chase him around until he was backed into a corner and ready to bite them.

I have to add that my brother and his wife also have kids, 3 boys. Although they do get in trouble and fight at times, in all the years I've known them (oldest is now 17), I have never once seen them completely out of control in the way that my sister's kids get.

It's just a really tough situation, and I feel for you.
 
Ha, Ha Bunbun...VERY familiar. Yes exactly!! But my sister would act like there was something wrong with ME because I was so uptight I wouldn't let her kids just "play" with my cat. (rolling eyes)

My sis's kids are now 10,8, and 6. She had the first one (boy) and he got out of control and then it snowballed from there with the others (hard to fix it by then I am sure). The other two are girls who, by the way, she says are MUCH MUCH harder to raise than boys. But then again, her son is medicated for ADHD, anxiety disorder (bites his nails), takes a sleeping pill, and takes zoloft I believe. Don't even get me started on all that.

I think Donna hit it right on the head when she said it is laziness. Plus my sister has really no support from her husband I don't think. Plus, she is codependent and has a really hard time standing up for herself. Because she is a SAHM I think she feels she just has to lay down and take anything her hubby dishes out behavior wise since she does not contribute financially to the relationship. Wacky, I know. Honestly, in a way, I think my sister lacks the inner strength (or confidence?) to change her reality. She never talks about how she feels in her relationship, how she feels about how her kids behave (other than shrugging it off as "normal"). We never have heart to hearts. I guess that bothers me. I want her to be angry at SOMETHING or SOMEONE and get the motivation to change.

Her house, by the way, is trashed all of the time. Pretty much she spends all day cleaning up the mess from the kids the day before. All day. Honestly. There are no boundaries, pretty much the kids go to bed whenever they want, eat whatever they want for dinner (all three will have a different meal) which may include choco-roos or a kids cuisine. Usually nothing very good for them.

Lori, you are totally right when you say she is lonely. Very much so. She has very few friends, and like I said, many of them don't spend too much time with her. Plus, her family travels in affluent circles because of her hubby's job and I think that just feeds her feelings of inadequacy. I want to help her, but I am the "Ok, I acknowlege something is not right here and now I am going to fix it" type of person. I would buy books, research, and find some method...any method..to try and change my life for the better. Atleast move forward. She is so paralyzed in general. I feel sad for her but then I don't. You know. And Lori...it isn't just a few crumbs. Besides, she knows I don't like it, so why, in my home, does she allow it to happen. Jeez, if I sit the kids at the table to eat instead of running around the house while they eat the cheese she acts like I am being a hardass!!! That is what I hate, her making me feel like there is something wrong with me to make herself feel better about what she has done, or at the very least, has made no attempt to fix.


I feel for her. I really do. But you know what? Eventually you have to say "this is enough" and change. You have to tell your husband that your job, even if it doesn't make any $$ is hard to, and you'll be you-know-what if he thinks he is going to sit on a computer and play video games every waking minute he is in the house!!!. I mean, C'mom!!! She is worth that and I don't think she understands that that type of conversation is within her right!! I don't know how to get that thru her head! I think there are bigger issues here...childhood issues with how we were raised. She feels we were so deprived as children that I think that is part of the reason she gives her kids everything. But c'mon, she had fallen off the deep end! LOL!

Honestly, my sister and I are like polar opposites. She gives her kids way too much and I am afraid that when I have kids I would abuse them! LOL! We really do have a very hard time understanding each other's behavior. Sometimes that can get so hard. I am angry FOR HER. LOL. (running to get my BP cuff) LOL. In addition, right now in our lives we have so very little in common. I have no kids and am on a period of self exploration and improvement of sorts. It's like the healthier I get the less and less I can understand and tolerate her behavior, her "helplessness".

Anyway, your suggestions are good and I, atleast, plan to check out the books. I could give them to my sister if I thought she had any desire to change, but I don't think she does. Or doesn't have the strength to. It would also require her to interact with them...really PLAY with them...and she has no interest in that either. I just don't get it...:(

Thanks all!
 
Janice,
Ok, that clarifies a lot. Your sister does seem to have a lot of self-esteem issues. I have a friend similair to your sister. She has self-esteem issues also. She lavishes her kids with material things. She seems to think they care about these things, that they are important. I know this sounds preachy, but kids want their parents love and attention, they could care less about toys. Especially when they are small.

My family was pretty poor growing up. We never got anything, except for birthday's and Christmas. I didn't feel deprived. I personally cannot stand a lot of toys. They clutter the house, and nobody plays with them. :)

To be honest, I don't "play" with my kids much, but I am attentive. Most of the time I make them go outside and play, and entertain themselves. They play with each other. I might get flamed for this, but I think it's a shame that so many kids are medicated. I mean, what is going on? It's so sad. A kid on Zoloft. How sad, unless he really is clinically depressed. There little brains are still growing and developing, to be bathed in chemicals, it's just not right.

Your sister doesn't seem to have a partnership with her husband. That can be a huge self-esteem killer. It sounds like both of them are depressed. A grown man playing video games for hours on end, and not connecting with his family. It sounds like depression to me. Maybe you should invite her to lunch and try to talk to her. Maybe tell her you are concerned for her happiness, and you are worried about her.

Does she have any skills? It sounds like her kids are all school aged. It might improve her confidence and lonliness if she gets a part time job while the kids are in school.

I know it's hard to fix other people's problems. I worry about my sister. She is letting life pass her by. She is obese, and doesn't get out of the house much. She lets her 7 month old baby watch hours of television, but there's not much I can do about it. I can't change her, she has to change herself. Good luck with your sister. I think the best thing you can do is be available for her, and try to empower her with a good example, and be very supportive.

Lori
 
Funny you say that Lori, but no my sister doesn't have skills. She has a degree in psych. I have actually had conversations with her telling her I think she would be a wonderful psych nurse. I tried to encourage her to take one CC class a semester, taking pre-reqs for the nursing program. It really does seem like the perfect job for her! She always has some excuse, like, "Yeah, well, what if they kids get sick?" and all that. She finds an excuse for everything. Then I tell her, well gee, I don't know how all those single moms made it thru nursing school while working FULL TIME. It can and does happen. There are many people that have a tougher time with it than her. Plus, she is home all day every day and I just don't get it why she doesn't want to pursue something professionally, even if it is only to get away from her husband if she ends up wanting that someday. We talk about it, sometimes she agrees, but she forgets all about our conversation and never does anything. I think you are right though. She needs a life outside of her home and she doesn't have one!!! She needs to get self confidence from somewhere other than "being a mom". She has no identity anymore. You ask her what she wants to do with her life and she has absolutely no idea. Her kids are getting older. In my mind, she has done her job. Is he going to support her when she tells him she wants to go back to school? Yeah, right. Truth is, he keeps her where he wants her...dependent on him, psychologically and financially. And she lets him do it.


Boy, sometimes I wonder what she really must think of me. Me and all my strong opinions. :)


Oh well. Kinda just venting here. Thanks for the opinions....:)
 
Yep I see out of control kids all the time at my father's work. And it really has got a lot to do with laziness, and not talking to your kid and explaining what society wants, and if they don't do it at a young age, the child never knows how to at in society.

Every single out of control kid that has came into the shop where my father works and we've seen grow up, always gets in trouble with the law. One reason the parents never explained or set examples, you can't do that or this happens.

Or the all famous time out. I'm going to give you a time out, I'm going to give you a time out. Over and over, but the parent will never give the child a time out. Your not teaching the kid not to do something by threating like that, he thinks your funny. Mommy just threaten me, hehehe, Hey Mommy, I just broke a $100 lamp, hehehe want to threaten me again so I can something else to break?

And yes I've seen that behavor so much it's not funny, it's really bad when you have to have a stranger control your kids in a store. And they listen, all you got to do is bark no, and they stop. They understand they are not stupid. But they know that the parents don't care and they aren't going to do a thing no matter what they do, so why should they listen to them.

And then there are the parents who only know the kid is around, when the kid follows all over the store going Mommy! Mommy! Mommy! I've convince a few little ones to be quite for a second. Mother freaks out about a minute later thinking her kid ran off and it's actually standing beside her. I know I shouldn't convince little ones to be quiet and scare their parents but I get tired of hearing a kid scream through the whole store for over an hour, because the mother won't pay attention to them.

There are parents who actually take time with their kids, but they are starting to be a rare sight. I know one women who comes in all the time with 11 kids. Yes 11, and they all are very well behaved and poliete. So I have a hard time believe that every single kid I see has some type of attention problem, when they run over to a rack and start ripping things open and throwing them on the floor. Espeically when the parents turn to me and tell me he's shopping. Which I just usually smile tell them great and ask for them to bring over every ripped package and I'll put it on their bill. As I believe kids can shop without ripping things out of the package taking a 10 second look and tossing it on the floor. I've had so many women get really ticked off with me charging them for what their kid broke or ripped out of the package, that they yell and scream and have a fit. They are nearly as bad as their kid. But seriously I am not their maid, I'm not going to follow them all over the store and put everything back on the rack the kid nocked off, and if he stepped on on and broke it, I just just have my family eat the loss. Just because the kid's been jumping on it for the past hour to break it, really shouldn't count against him. It was an accident. Just I don't see it that way, I have the phone number to the police and will call the shop lifter line, and have a police car in my parking lot in less then 2 minutes. Then I let them explain to the police why they shouldn't have to pay for what the kid broke, ripped open and threw on the floor. Usually after once they don't come back. And they think they are hurting our business by not coming in. hmm Hello? they are saving us so much money as we don't have to order new stuff that their kid broke that we didn't see when the police was there. Not to mention most of these out of control kids wlll run off the normal adults as they don't want to be near them. And those adults, are much better to do business with and actually buy more. So I'm usually really happy when they huff and puf and tell me they'll never come back to the store. They just didn't know they were a lot better off dealing with me then my father. He doesn't tolerate kids being little devils at all.

I really believe it's the parents, they don't have enough time so the kid has to suffer their whole entire life, as the parents won't help them actually understand what society expects. And it's really sad, as I believe most of these kids would really be a good factor in society if someone gave them a light so they could find their way and actually be a part of society and not be an outcast. I just wish there was more ways to get kids into programs and in the right direction if the parents don't have the time or skills to do it themselves. Granted the parents should do it, but I'm more intrezsted in the kid then listening 101 excuses why some adult can't help their own kid, I'd much rather pay for a program for other peoples kids if it helped them, and it gave a kid a good start in life. To me it would be well worth it.

Kit
 
Hi Janice,

I love my oldest brother to death, but his kids are from satan. Sorry that sounded bad, but it's to the point you don't even like being around them. Their seven year old girl has already learned how to stick her nose in the air. And her blasted parents have told her to be like that. They have well informed her that she has plenty of money. No child should know or care about those things at her age. And I know this isn't her fault, but never the less it is plum sickening. Every thing has got to be her way and always given to her.
Now on to her son. She stays at home with him everyday and he is totally unruley. When we get together as a family, he comes into the room where we're socializing and has a toy in his hands cocked and loaded. He will haul off and hit anyone with the object he has in his hands. This child is only 2 years old. He has slapped me and my daughter in the face before. I could of gave him the butt whipping he deserves. I know I sound stronge, but I have 2 kids and I would of never let them act like that. And I can't stand It when my nephew does something and my brother says, oh he is just being a boy. Yuck!!!!! There are certain things children do out of being a child and some are darn right uncalled for. Boy I'm getting steamed just typing this. I think the parents are a large part of correcting these things. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert and what I say might be wrong, but this is how I feel. So it doesn't make it right.Every one has their own opinion on how to raise kids, I just feel strongly on certain things. Well since I've vented, Maybe I'll send that Nanny person over to their house. Ha!Ha!


Well hope I haven't bored you too much.


kim
 
Yeah, I gotta check out that "Nanny" lady. Never seen it before.

Kit..you are right. It is the threats but not the follow-through with the parents oftentimes. I vow now that if I tell my kids I am going to do something, well then, I am going to do it. If you don't, it will backfire on you as we see so often, obviously.


Kim..sounds familiar. Nice to hear your story!! Maybe one day I will have kids and my sister can say "I told you so!" LOL. Ya never know.....
 
Janice,

Are you sure you and I don't have the same sister? :eek:

My sister's kids are exactly like you describe. They are totally and completely out of control. What I can't understand is why she has raised them like this. She and I were NOT raised to behave this way, and would've gotten our rear ends spanked if we did. My own child is well behaved and respectful. She is always telling me how "lucky" I am that my DS is well behaved. LUCKY? Hello? It's called raising them up RIGHT and PROPER!!

I love my sister dearly, and love her kids, but spending time with them is like taking medicine. I so enjoy spending time with sis alone. Unfortunately that never happens as her youngest is only 3. She has one of these "uninvolved" husbands, who wouldn't dare lift a finger to care for one of his own children, so it's all up to her. My sympathy is with her, but she has GOT to get those kids under control. :(
 
Janice,

Yeah after seeing a mother threaten her kids and not do anything and they'd actually wiggle their bottoms at her, and laugh, and even gave her the bird, I swore right then and there, that if I warn I'm going to follow through, where they know if I get to warning 2, there is no warning 3. I never knew how dumb it made you look until I seen that. Look a grown women can't even make a 3 year old behave, and when a 3 year old thinks your funny when you warn, you know you look dumb standing there to everyone else. Even my nieces and nephews both know it's 2 warnings, or there will be some kind of punishment, if I have to speak again. And they won't behave for their own mother like they do for me, which drives her nuts. But I keep my promises both good and bad, if I say I'm going to get them something I do everything possible to get them whatever I promised them. If I promise them a time out, they'll get that too. And that's the one thing she won't do, until she blows up, then they all get a time out. So then all the kids are mad at each other, and take it out on each other, and to me just doesn't work all that well to wait that long.

Kit
 
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